Keira&Phoenix

Damage done. See the comments, kill all pitbulls and lots of words like evil, monsters, eradication etc etc. Not to mention stereotyping PB owners. High five Herald Sun you accomplished what you wanted another witch hunt.

where is the picture? they seemed to have taken it down?? It isn't the first article posted it is this one http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/dog-mauls-tot-good-samaritan-in-burnside-attack-in-melbournes-west/story-e6frf7jo-1226197826630

When I read that story and made my comment it said Pitbull, I wrote in a comment to the website about it being a Bull Terrier and how they are separate breeds (not been published) but after that it changed! Oh well so long as they report the right thing, although damage is already done.

In case we really needed to highlight the incompetency of the people ID'ing dogs or WHY Pitbulls were banned in the first place..... http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/dog-mauls-tot-good-samaritan-in-burnside-attack-in-melbournes-west/story-e6frf7jo-1226197826630 There is a picture that states the dog is believed to be the dog involved in the attack. The dog in the picture is clearly a cross of a Bull Terrier (easily identifiable by their Roman nose which you can see in the pic) and the story states the dog is registered as a Bull Terrier X but they call the dog a Pitbull throughout the entire news story and even say the dog is confirmed as a Pitbull X. How do you confirm a dog that looks and is regsitered as a Bull Terrier as a Pitbull? Either they wrote the story with PB in it because they like to sh*t stir and for the attention, or whoever wrote the story doesn't understand that Bull Terrier's and American Pitbull Terriers are two completely separate breeds of dog. This is how and why Pitbull's are banned, continuous misidentification. This is what happened back in 1991 with the attack on the baby in its own home, the attack that sparked the ban on importation. ETA - I commented on their news story stating that the dog looks like and is registered as a Bull Terrier and that it is a separate breed and they have now change the breed from Pitbull to Bull Terrier. Here is a link to a thread in the news section where they quoted the article when it said Pitbull (2nd post) http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/229866-and-another-dog-mauls-a-toddler-and-elderly-lady/page__gopid__5593518#entry5593518

Rather long story so I didn't quote the lot, but the picture shows a bull terrier cross and the dog is registered as a bull terrier cross, but somehow authorities have confirmed it is a pitbull cross? I'm confused Hope the toddler is ok OMG WTF! That is clearly a BT x and already a PB has been blamed for it, this is friggin ridiculous. Damage is done now, another toddler attacked by a "pitbull" what a load of crap. I hope all the victims are ok and will fully recover mentally and physically.

I find it extremely hard to decipher much of what you say, you talk a load of rubbish and your spelling, grammar and punctuation is atrocious. So if I don't address some things that is why. Who ID's all the "Pitbulls" involved in attacks. I guess it would be the same person who ID'd the Bull Terrier in that attack. If you are not going to believe them when they ID one type of dog then you can't go off an believe them when they ID another... You talk about the lies told after a "Pitbull" attack but who are you to say it was or wasn't a pitbull attack on those occasions, were you there? Who are you to say people are lying? IF anything the liars are the people IDing the breed without knowing what they are looking at or before any person with any real experience has been bought in, why don't we get to see photos of these dogs? I explained that the media falesly reported the dog as a Pitbull Terrier instead of a Bull Terrier, hence the ban on Pitbull's and as pointed out by Bulldogz because they are not a recognised breed where as the Bull Terrier is. If BSL was repealed Pitbulls would no longer be as attractive to the bogans and tough guys because they are no longer illegal, you will then also have decent breeders coming out and breeding GOOD dogs instead of the BYB's out there breeding from whatever lines they want and mixing in what ever other breeds they want. And then we make the owners responsible, not the dogs, dogs don't control how we treat them. Funny that Chrissie at this stage doesn't have a dog full stop. I actually know Chrissie quite well. Since when do you have to own a breed of dog to be passionate about it? One minute you are bashing APBT people for breaking the law by having a dog they are not supposed to have and then saying that those of us who love the breed and advocate for it are imposters because we don't own the breed....make up your mind. I have just as much to lose as you, I have a dog (maybe even two) who would meet those silly standards that are going around down in Vic, if those moved to QLD, I would either have to declare both my dogs Pitbull even though at least 1 definitely isn't (she is Ridgeback X Bull Mastiff) or risk having them declared PB and taken by the council. How do I have nothing to lose? FYI - Here is a few articles that give a rundown of the legislation that has passed the House of Lords in the UK which will REPEAL the Dangerous Dogs Act entirely and hold owners responsible. http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/dog-control-billb http://companionanimalnews.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/news-from-the-uk-dog-control-bill-passes-through-the-house-of-lords/ The new legislation will no longer be breed discriminatory and will repeal all of the old laws. That is a win for the APBT.

This is the attack that started BSL in Australia. This attack was incorrectly reported as a PitBull Terrier rather than as Bull Terrier X attack and that is when the importation laws came into place. So OUR breed copped it for another. "Sep 15 1991 North Richmond Bull Terrier cross 55 Km North West of Sydney 2 month old boy mauled to death by a Bull Terrier cross" Dougie, Stone whatever you prefer to go by. Look into BSL in other countries it has been repealed in the Netherlands, the UK is well on there way to repealing the law because both of these counties have had BSL, it hasn't worked, dog attacks have increased not decreased. Australia is behind the times. Seriously do we still live in the 1800's? Witch hunts were popular back then too. Lets move out of the dark ages.

Has anyone seen a story on the attack on the pony which actually states what sort of dog attacked it. Because I have seen a couple stories but none name a breed. If the pony was attacked by a Pitbull type or look a like, they would have named the breed 100 times by now. I think they have spoken to this women and used this story to garner attention and sympathy and to vilify the breed further when by the sounds of it they don't even know what sort of dog was involved in the attack, or they do but are not naming it as it isn't PB.

Just more proof that BSL doesn't work and that we need to start legislating against bad owners.

Bulldogz - I know what he is doing, I have encountered him (under names such as Dougie) and others like him on other forums, I don't know why I bother replying to be honest except that I dislike the misinformation that he is spreading on a public forum. I guess that my goal in replying to him is to get the truth out so that people who come here and read this thread don't only have his biased, breedist BS to read. Most of what he says is completely vague and makes no sense, he writes exactly the same everywhere he goes and uses false information to try and prove his point. This is a public forum, this particular sub-forum is for discussions on BSL. Seeing as in this Country the dog most affected by BSL is the Pitbull I believe we are well and truly within our rights to discuss them here and to point out the failure that is BSL. Pull your head in Stone, your breed is involved in attacks as well, but you will deny that and claim they are PB's "in disguise", so once again it is ok for YOU to make our breed a scapegoat hey "quick its been reported as an SBT lets say it isn't an SBT but in fact a Pitbull being called by another name and take the focus off ourselves". If your breed was so removed from ours then it wouldn't be so hard to tell the difference or for the dodgy owners to pass the breeds off as each other. You keep pushing the APBT isn't a purebred line and yet you are still calling for their extermination....how do you intend on exterminating a breed that doesn't exist? That is essentially according to you just a crossbreed? To me the only way to exterminate a crossbreed is exactly what the Vic Government are doing, kill any dog that looks vaguely like a "pitbull type" does, that will eventually include your breed & Amstaff's as well as crosses of dogs that don't have a slither of any of those breeds in them. And in the end they will still find themselves dealing with attacks because exterminating one breed or type will not stop the other breeds from being mistreated, abused, under trained and under socialised.

Ahhh ok, that makes sense RE: doggo that is. I always wondered why you wrote it without capitalization and I sort of thought maybe that is why after I wrote my last post. That is a bummer about his dog but sounds like you really needed to get out of there. So what breed of dog do you have now? How old? Pictures?

Blarg! The comments, a great sign of how uneducated people really are.

Great news Sujo. Deelee they would have had to follow procedure which often makes things slower than it needs to be. I don't think it is responsible to rehome a dog that has been declared menacing or has bitten someone. For starters the dog has behavioural issues, second the new owners would have to comply with the menacing laws which includes a higher cost for registration every year (probably close to what you pay in rego for your car). Nor do I think a rescue would take on a dog that had been declared menacing. Actually it might even be against the law to rehome a dog with a menacing declaration.

No I believe APBT are restricted because we cannot take responsibility for humanities mistakes and problems so we use them as scapegoats just as Dobermans, Rotties and GSD's have been used as scapegoats in the past. Lets start taking responsibility for what WE do, we claim to be so intellectually above every other creature on this planet and yet we blame them for our misdeeds. Dogs are not "evil" we are. We over breed them, we train them, we mistreat them, we fight them, we kill them and apparently THEY are the evil ones. Wake up. I have a mongrel crossbreed of unknown origins who may or may not have Amstaff or Pitt in her. I can't be sure. She would certainly hit the nail on the head with most of the standards the Vic Govt have implemented. But her pictures are in my signature you can make your own judgement. As I have already pointed out to you there are NO restrictions on crossbreeds in Queensland, as APBT are not a recognised breed in Aus they are a crossbreed, my dog is of unknown heritage and is certainly a crossbreed, so there are no restrictions on owning her or how I house her. But I am a responsible owner and both of my dogs are kept contained at all times, neither of my dogs have ever escaped, both are registered with council, micro-chipped, vaccinated and desexed not to mention socialised and well trained, especially Phoenix. Are you going to support me now? I *am* doing the right thing.... I am not trying to shift blame. I blame people full stop, we created this issue, we need to fix it but while ever we blame a breed of dog nothing will get done to fix the real problem. I am not pointing fingers at any breeds, I have no breed prejudice, I believe all breeds have propensity to aggression and as I work as a dog trainer/assistant in group classes and am training in behavioural dog training I have seen many many dogs of all breeds who are aggressive, I never blame the dog or the breed I blame the person on the end of the lead and those people on the end of the lead that accept that it was their doing, they are the ones who manage to turn their dogs around. As a race we need to accept that this is our doing so we can turn things around. BSL is a fail. We need to reconsider our options and develop legislation that targets bad owners. Owners/Breeders/Fanciers of Amstaffs, Staffords, Rotties etc need to stand up and HELP us because otherwise it is their beloved breed on the chopping block next, not because we pointed the finger but because banning one breed won't stop the attacks, it will just cause the idiots to move onto a new breed and it will start again...don't believe me, Ukraine has banned over 80 breeds of dog, those breeds include several varieties of Bull Terriers, Bulldogs, Livestock Guardian dogs, Boxer, Briar, Labrador Retriever, Welsh Terrier, German Shepherd and their mixes. Whose dog is next? I am standing up, I don't back down on my beliefs, no matter who I am talking to. My friends, family, co-workers, acquaintances and clients are well aware that I am not a supporter of BSL and that I am a Pitbull lover. I make it clear in everyday life and I make an effort to educate people. I don't hide in the dark, I don't hide my dog. I have no reason to, I am proud of my beliefs.

Jake-k9 - Sorry this is totally off topic but just wondering about Doggo. I know he was? your housemates dog....just curious as it sounds like you are living on your own with him now..did you manage to get him to give you Doggo? If so that is great, I remember your roommate was a bit unstable and couldn't really afford to care for him. Did you get him checked for cancer? I know you were concerned about a lump a while back. Sorry for all the questions and feel free to not answer if I am prying!

Maybe to you they are not recognised as genuine purebreds. But 113 years of purebred registry says differently. If someone opened a Cavoodle registry I would be happy to tell them their dogs are now purebred when they had been breeding and registering them for 113 years, oh and if they changed the darn name to something a little more sensible. Also you may want to go back to the start of the thread and have a look it was started over 3 years ago, why have you and TheCoat dredged up such an old thread? The thread was originally created by someone who was and still is helping people fight the Council's here in QLD against their draconian laws and fighting council's illegal seizure and euthanasia of many innocent dogs. I may be wrong, but it appears the thread was reopened by the original poster (Chivers solicitor?) or an associate there of. To what end? One can only assume to continue the blame switching charade. And winning I might add. Do you think so? Really? The litigant in Chivers V GCCC introduced her own expert witness' testimony which, much to everyones shock/horror, stated Am Staffs & APBT's were the same breed, effectively destroying her own case. IMO, & this is purely conjecture on my part, the council heard the combined groan of every Am Staff owner in the world, not just in Australia or Qld, for a legal precedent about to be laid down. Realising the pandoras box that was opening, they withdrew. The case was not won, nor is it really finalised. The Qld government then enacted legislation declaring ANKC registered Am Staffs are not a restricted breed. Please note ANKC registered. Nothing else has changed. The fat lady hasn't sung just yet. BSL is still law. Non ANKC registered Am Staffs are still pitties as far as the BSL is concerned. BTW, pure breeds & registered recognised pure breeds are miles apart. One being pretty much a local thing of no real consequence except to those involved, the other internationally acknowledged by every genuine pure breed registry. cavoodles? pure breeds? Start a pure breed registry. They still wont be recognised as pure breeds outside that registry. Chauncey said Bennetts Ring was a pure breed, 113 years on & still the AKC doesn't agree with him. That has to tell you something? I suggest you take another look at the Chivers vs GCCC case or stop talking about what you don't know. At this stage Tango is home, that in my books is a win maybe not the war but certainly a battle, second it was not Chivers who bought in the expert who claimed APBT and Amstaff were the same, that was a tactic used by the GCCC to try and win the case, they gave no notice and sprung this tactic on the court the day of the hearing. QLD Legislation was ammended not long after, the legislation now states :- So no the dog does not have to be ANKC registered. 2ndly This clearly states in part (3) that a breed of dog does not include a crossbreed. Seeing as we don't have an American Pitbull Terrier purebred registry and they are not a recognised breed in Australia (by ANKC or any affiliates) they are technically a crossbreed only and therefore are not prohibited by Qld Legislation. Any one who has their dog seized in QLD should know this ^^^ and fight because according to Australia there is no such breed as the APBT, QLD law states crossbreeds don't come under the prohibited laws so how are unrocognised crossbreeds being seized? Actually someone accidentally re-opened the thread in August, someone updated the list, as far as I can see not someone who is at all involved with the Chivers case (why would they?). No one is blaming breeds, as it has already been stated the majority of dogs involved in attacks on this list are Xbreeds only. Why is it ok for everyone else to lay blame on APBT but when we point out attacks by other breeds or Xbreeds we are in the wrong? How come you are attacking us for this list and telling us to give up the fight rather than asking WHY there are so many attacks by other breeds and crossbreeds? Pitbull haters are so blinded by their hate that they refuse to see the big picture and to ask the real questions like WHY other breeds are involved in attacks, why are other breeds (or Xbreeds) involved in more attacks in Australia then PBx's? Open your eyes, pull your head out of the sand and start looking at the truth.

Maybe to you they are not recognised as genuine purebreds. But 113 years of purebred registry says differently. If someone opened a Cavoodle registry I would be happy to tell them their dogs are now purebred when they had been breeding and registering them for 113 years, oh and if they changed the darn name to something a little more sensible. Also you may want to go back to the start of the thread and have a look it was started over 3 years ago, why have you and TheCoat dredged up such an old thread? The thread was originally created by someone who was and still is helping people fight the Council's here in QLD against their draconian laws and fighting council's illegal seizure and euthanasia of many innocent dogs. And winning I might add.

Not recognised by any purebred registry? So the UKC isn't a purebred registry? Registering purebred APBT for 113 years The ADBA isn't a purebred registry? Funny that I am sure they are.... And TheCoat has completely contradicted himself. First he says we should leave it alone because we are dragging other dogs into the spotlight and that we are chucking them under the bus but then a few posts later says he isn't worried about the ANKC register dogs because he doesn't believe they will ban them, they are safe as they are recognised breeds....

It might vary from Council to Council. Are you in Sydney City Council area or a neighbouring council area? You will have to check laws in your specific council area. From what I can see on the Sydney City Council website as long as the dog is on leash and tethered to a person there is no specific leash length.

I dont agree. The child was not harmed and they would have to show a bite. The child was not rushed, the dog was on lead and is owned by a responsible owner. I do think you need to report this to both the police and your local rangers so that you have a record early. We both know that, but would the Council/police/rangers? I did tell you I was being cynical..of course I would love to see this idiot get his dues, but how often nowadays do the good guys win? It is unlikely anything will happen to him at this stage as she doesn't have his address or dogs rego number (if it is even regod), it will just go down as a complaint/record and if something happens in future she has an early record of incidence with this man and it is also there in case someone else has issues as well. ETA Sorry for the double post

Agree with all the above please report it to both the Rangers and the Police. For your safety, your dogs and the safety of others who could possibly encounter him and his dog. No one has the right to treat you like this and as others have pointed out it is against the law. I can't help you with leash laws, I think it is pretty dumb that in a large field you can't have your dogs on a long line. Fair enough on the street etc..

This is just inconceivably horrible and sad. I feel sick. Donatella I agree with the others please report her that is disgusting. If someone told me that I think I would punch them in the face.

This is just terribly sad. Poor man and poor Bull. So angry at whoever made the complaint (if one was really made) and so mad at the Rangers. That is just the lowest of the low. I truly hope he gets Bull back. Would talk to Legal Aid and the Homeless People Advocates, they would be best options at this stage. If you can get some media attention on it, a solicitor might front up and do it for free.

Of course there's such a thing. Some ANKC recognised purebreds were once crosses. The Boxers gained a bob-tailed gene from clever crossing with Corgis, and after some number of generations crossing back to purebred Boxers, they gained the title of "purebred" again. What most people have an issue with is the advertising associated with the crossbreeds and the fact that crossbreeds seem to majorily come from unethical breeders (backyard or puppy farm) who don't health test. That's the very basic jist of it. It's not all of it, but the two main ones. There is a big difference between purposely cross breeding to establish a certain breed than cross breeding (eg "oodles") just for the sake of it, mostly by puppy farmers. They are not interested in recording, establishing a new breed for a specific purpose, and wanting to have that breed recognised by canine authorities. Yes, a large number of our present day pedigree pure breed dogs come from mixtures, but that was done in most cases to establish a breed for a certain job or service, and records were carefully kept on the progress of the generations to enable registration as a pure breed. I hardly think one can compare today's mongrels with yesterday's method of establishing a breed. Um. Nobody's arguing that. She asked if there was such a thing as multi-generational crosses and indeed there are. Purebreds of today were once "multi generational crosses". Remember, it's just a label to describe crossing towards another cross of the same type multiple times in a row, nothing more. It's not comparing it to the "worthiness" of ye olde days of crossbreeding dogs compared to today's. Just a definition, don't need to get fired up No she didn't ask if there is such thing as multi generational crosses. She asked if there was such thing as multi generation crosses with the Oodles specifically. I think based on her question she knows that purebreds come from multi generation crosses originally. In answer to Huskies question yes there are multi generation crosses of some oodles ie: there is a Labradoodle association that is working towards ANKC purebred recognition and they have breeders who are several generations in and getting fairly consistent results in relation to size, coats etc. http://www.laa.org.au/index.htm Then you have some puppy farmers who brag about how all of their pups are first generation crosses to preserve "hybrid vigour".

It would depend on who was teaching the class. I certainly wouldn't be going to see any old self proclaimed expert. Last year Sarah Kalnajs came to Brisbane and gave a 2 day seminar, I didn't go because I found out too late but that is something I would go to if she was here again.