Mystiqview

*bold* In the early stages, you may be able to wash the vetbed every 48 hours. Later you would be replacing twice daily (depending on how many pups etc). Maybe before/during whelping, I would refrain from the cardboard. Depends on how much your bitch wants to dig to china! Once all the whelping is done, move the pups to a basket with a blanket in it, clean mum and whelping box and then put them all back in. In the first 4-5 to 12 hours, you may want to refrain from the vetbed, as the mum will still be passing afterbirth. Up to you. There is not a lot of movement in that time anyway. Not knowing where you have your box, I just made some comments to think about. If the room you are whelping in and where the pups will be for the first 4 weeks is relatively free from drafts, then you may not need a heated area. I mostly do winter litters, so for me, it is important to keep the room an even temperature. it is easier to keep a room warm than to cool it (especially here in QLD). I also whelp in the laundry and can control drafts.

I have been reading these posts.. I was under the impression the dog was (prefix) "gift of Artemus".. Where did Artemus come into as being the prefix? Did I miss something?

I thought he might have been named after St Artemas ..... But yes Artemis (or Diana) aka the Goddess of the Hunt is definately female im surprised that you had input into your dogs registered name, both breeders of my boys chose their names (I just consider it falls under breeders rights lol ... They did all the work, they get to choose) and their registered names played no part in the names we gave them Oh and the same for our cat too I will pick a theme for a litter. I also invite suggestions and invitations from puppy buyers to input into the pedigree name. The only time I really had to say no was it was against ANKC naming conventions. Helps me out.. I don't have to think of names all the time. Hard enough picking a theme sometimes.

When I worked in the pound. The biggest problem we had is not so much the pedigree papers, but the change of Microchip details. In many cases change of ownership was not done when the pup was sold, so when we scanned them, we would ring the breeder and say we have their dog in the pound. Sometimes we would be able to re-unite the owners, other times not and the dog was put down as we did not know who to contact. Some times we ask for proof of ownership, as we have had people argue the dog is theirs. Correct "ownership" (as even with CCCQ rules, pedigree papers does not "proove" ownership as found out in another custody case I know of), it certainly helps narrow down the "most likely" owner when it comes to collecting a dog at a pound.

Hi, In Queensland you have to sign what is called a "limit register agreement" form. This is needed by Dogs Queensland to be able breeders to sell puppies on the limit register. a copy is available HERE from dogs queensland. This is then attached to the litter regististration form we send into Dogs Queensland. It is basically an agreement that protects the breeder if anything that the puppy we sold WAS on the limit register and you by signing this form understands this. There have been cases where owners have later contacted Dogs Qld, complaining they cannot breed their bitch because it was on the limit register and they did not know. If you have signed this form, it should have been explained to you by the breeder and by signing it, you are supposedly are to understand that. Like the others have said, the forms you sent off are more than likely the change of ownership for the microchip. When we microchip the puppies at 6 weeks, we have to register them with the microchip company in our name. They are not transferred automatically, as we have to sign part of the form as well as the new puppy buyer to transfer them into the new owners name. Some breeders like to have all the puppies registered and the pedigree papers ready to go when the puppies go. Sometimes this is not possible due to a number of reasons. In QLD we can register the pups directly into the new owners names whereas other states, register them to the breeder then have to transfer them again to the new owner. Most breeders in QLd, will wait until all the puppies are sold before sending in the litter registration form to Dogs Queensland. This way, only one registration is paid not two (the second being the transfer from breeder to puppy buyer). Dogs Queensland generally take about 10-14 days to send the papers back to the breeder who then has to forward them to the puppy buyer. As Dogs Queensland do shut down for the Christmas period, there would be a longer delay in getting the papers back. If you do not get them back by the end of January, then I would be raising questions then.

I normally go down to a floor covering place and get either the sample lino squares or an offcut and place that under the whelping box. If I use the squares, I join them with gaff tape. Get one of those cage compost things from bunnings. I use a securapen around my whelping box, and place a sheet over it. I have found with some bitches they need to be in a "den" to start nesting etc. Also keeps bitch in box rather than trying to find a spot in your wardrobe. During whelping, I only use newspaper. She will dig up much of it anyway in the first stage. As she whelps the pups, I take out the dirty paper and put in more clean. After whelping, I clean the bitch (I generally have to wash pantaloons as I have a coated breed). She will drip blood/afterbirth for about 5-10 days after whelping. This is normal. Depending on how clean she is, is whether she cleans herself well or not. As for your heatpad. Keep an eye on it. I have found mum likes to hog it as well. I have two in my whelping box.. One for mum and one for the pups. I place mine at opposite ends of my whelping box. Depending on what you have used for pig rails, keep an eye on it. I have 20mm hardwood dowel in mine fixed with each end with towel rail ends. During whelping I do not have my pig rails in, as mum during her digging can get her foot inbetween the dowel and the edge of the box, I also find they are a nuisance while whelping if you have to assist or support the puppy coming out between placenta and afterbirth. During whelping, the more room you have to move around the box the easier it is. I have not used vetbed. I know plenty who have and sware by it. Some other materials you can use are Kylie sheets. You can buy these second hand or see some nursing homes for their old ones. Soak them, and they are fine for animal use. I have also used your polar fleece or synthetic blankets cut up. Both of these are great as they wash and dry easily. I know also a number of breeders who just use newspaper and never have a problem. I myself have also just used newspaper and never had an issue with it. I have heard some blame newspaper for problems later on claiming the puppies have done damage to their limbs while on newspaper as they did not get traction. Personally do not know. Newspaper has been used for a long time by many breeders without a problem. I use an oil heater in my whelping room to keep a constant temperature. Drafts from open doorways etc can also kill pups. I generally do not do summer litters as I find it easier to keep pups warm rather than cool. Be careful if you have a fan/air conditioner running in the whelping room. Make sure the drafts are restricted on the whelping box. My only other comments are: Make sure you have something to dry the puppies with: I use cloth nappies. Perfect size and you just soak them after (In cold water, hot water will set the blood) A pair of scizzors and two artery lamps if you need to cut the umbilical cord. Clamp the cord about 2 cm away from the pups stomach and support the clamp. cut the cord. You can clamp the other side and cut inbetween, but not necessary. You can pinch the umbilical cord with your fingers and cut. But always cut about 2-3 cm away from the pup. I personally do not believe in giving calcium to the bitch. There are others who have different opinions on this. I went to one breeding lecture where the giving of calcium is not advised. If the bitch is on a good balanced diet, she should have the calcium you need. If anything I do give her biolac or similar during whelping. Have some nutrigel on hand. Can be great for puppies and mother. Also have a small bottle of brandy. If you need to get a pup to breath (after clearing the airway), put a drop on the tongue and it makes them gasp. Any left over is for you.

I dislike cats after one scratched/bit me at work. My arm swelled up and took ages to heal. Admittingly it was a ferral cat and we were trying to put it down at the time. Before this, I had heard of cat injuries like this, but until experiencing it myself. OUCH! My pet peeve with cats, is the owners who don't keep them confined to their property, allow them to wander the neighbourhood, poop and pee in neighbours gardens and fight outside windows at night. Or just move house and leave them behind, thinking the neighbour(hood) will take it on and look after it for you. Or thinking it is a cat, it can look after itself. If you have an animal, no matter what it is, be responsible for it. Some animals require more responsibility than others. Each person to their own. If you choose to have a dog, there are responsibilities. If you have a cat, be bloody responsible for it too. (I don't just have dogs: I also keep two turtles which are fully permitted and licensed.) I have minded cats and rescued cats in my previous job. I don't like them.)

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Find out what the average score is for a lab. Find out if it is common for them to have elbow scores. This will give a base level to start at and compare. We can talk numbers all day on here, but from reading the above posts, none have labs. In border collies. No score on elbows. A combined hip score no higher than 8 is ideal. In saying this, many of the dogs being used at stud are much lower than this. I would potentially look at a higher score on one side, if its parents were low, and the partner's scores were low and the parents of those dogs were low. The thing you need to remember: HD can come from 0:0 parents. Breeding from dogs with lower hip scores, hopefully reduces the risk of HD in offspring. The best guide is looking at a line of consistent low(er) scored animals and relatives. If you have a dog with low scores, but a litter mate has high scores, there is still the possibility of HD being carried in the line. HD/ED can also be partially environmental (possible predisposition from genetics)- poor diet, starting the dog in training too early in sports where there is a lot of twisting and turning and allowing dogs to pelt up and down flights of stairs. Here is an example for hips (Elbows all 0:0): A bitch of mine 4:2 hips (her sire 7:5 and dam 0:3) She was put to an unscored dog (due to age)however sibling and close relatives were scored low Son retained by me: 0:0 Problem with hip scores is only a small percentage of the population is scored (depending on breed). Think of a litter of 8 puppies. Maybe one - three of those puppies make it to breeder status, which leaves 5 puppies or so not scored. Add into that, those who get the xrays done, and then do not send in the scores as it can be seen the hips are not good. then there are breeders who don't score to start with.

I have worked in a pound that kept animals only three business days before putting them to sleep. You get used to it. The sad (and angry part) is the excuses people have for dumping their animals at the pound. In reality, some dogs would not be rehomed easily - especially the serial escape artists. If you don't you are working in the wrong area of the industry. I am not saying you need to be insensitive to it. It is a fact of life and if you feel you cannot deal, then something will need to give. In saying that, putting down any of my own animals is hard.

the studmaster who MissMonaro recommended, told us to lock them side by side in a crate. He gets frustrated and she gets to tart. bring him out to let him do his job, if nothing in a short time, put them back in a crate.

BJ Send me a PM with your email, and I will email you the same partnership form. What I have done, is taken it into adobe and made it so you can "type" in your conditions. The biggest problem is CCCQ have no teeth or Balls. They have shown a tendancy of late to not stand by their own by-laws and constitution. So if something does turn pear shaped, do not rely on CCCQ to stick by you. You can only really hope at the end of the day the puppy buyer does the right thing by you. Even with the best "contract" in the world, you can sell to a bad puppy buyer who will not get in contact with you if they have problems and sell the dog anyway without your knowing. (been there had that) The best suggestion I think any of us can make, is make every opportunity to screen your potential puppy buyers.

RE 16 week shot - I think the best thing for anyone reading this forum is to talk to your vet about it - whether they need the 16 week booster or not. I don't need it as my vet has given me enough information about the vaccines and the one I am doing (C3 @ 6 weeks, C5 12 weeks, with the C5 up the nose) is fine for the protection of my animals. Parvo is not just limited to the tropics. It is everywhere. As others have mentioend, you can walk it into your place from just walking in it from outside. A vaccinated dog can still carry the virus and not show symptoms. A vaccinated dog can still get parvo. Hopefully not the deadly strain. Just like humans who are vaccinated for measels etc can still get it. You can limit the chance of affecting your dog with parvo/kennel cough by being sensible. If there is a parvo outbreak in your area, extra measures may be required. I relieved in the pound at work for 6 weeks while someone was on holidays. Parvo came through there as often it does in pounds. I had two sets of boots, I scrubbed off at the door, laundered my clothes before going near my dogs and scrubbed myself in the shower. I did not bring Parvo into my household, by following some pretty basic hygeine rules. We had to do the same when Horse Flu was around, but much more. The vehicles had to be scrubbed as well...Not to mention scrubbing down each and every time I wanted to leave the property. As for the 3 yearly vaccination and vet checks. I hear you, however the only time my dog sees a vet is if they are sick. I do the 3 yearly vaccination program. Even if someone does only see a vet on a yearly basis, it may still not be enough for that owner. (Sometimes people just should not be allowed to have animals). As for the Proheart SR12, not every dog can use it, and it is not a drug I would ever recommend to be used on Collies. I know too many who have had adverse reactions despite the manufacturer claiming it is safe to use on collies.

I had heard rumors that Lavelle likes to "play games". If this is true, then it is concerning. I am yet to score my young bitch as all my previous ones were sent to Wyburn, except my first bitch who was scored by the AVA. So these anomalies are of interest. As I said in a previous post, I know of similar high/low scoring cases with AVA vs Wyburn. So it brings to question the whole Hip Scoring process and really how accurate is it when the same supposed xrays can have so drastically differnet scores. The concerning part is that someone can score hips that high (as seen with your Lavelle scores), whilst another person supposedly using the same matrix/foruma or whatever you want to call it, can score the same plates half what was originally scored. I have heard similar stories like this regarding Lavelle to Rowlinson as well. Not just your case. Realistically I believe the hip score average is no where near the 8 as the official average. By pure numbers and stats of dogs being scored compared to the puppies born, the data is incomplete. Factor also in those who you know do not send in bad xrays or those who do not hip score to start with. Not to mention on average a breeder keeps one or two dogs for breeding in a litter and only scores those while the other PET quality ones never get scored. It has long been said the real score is somewhere around the 12-16, given this basis. Personally,I would still regard the bitch with having higher than average hip scores due to this to play it safe, given the variance in the scoring.

Wow, you can see how poorly the positioning is in the first set. Seems to me the positioning is everything with these xrays? Even more important than the person who reads/scores them. How can you expect an accurate reading if the legs and hips are positioned incorrectly for the xray. If the first plate was poorly positioned, it would not account for the second plate still being scored 9:4 from the same person, then from how I read the post, those same plates sent to a different person who scored them 3:1 I was also under the impression for other breeds at least where hip scoring is a requirement, the same plates cannot be scored by two different people and then used in an official capacity. While I know of breeders who have sent the same plates to Wyburn after having the AVA doing them, they still required to get a separate set of plates done for an official score. Something is still suss with the two readings. It makes you question the whole validity of the people doing the scoring.

On a side note.... With the current vaccinations.. You don't need to do the third puppy shot at 16 weeks. A lot of vets still follow the old practice. But I would talk to your vet about it. 6 weeks: C3 12 Weeks, C4 + C5 (I do up the nose) 16 weeks C5 booster I have talked to the vets a number of times on this, and the drug companies who make the vaccines, actaully state on their leaflets the 16 week shot is not required. My vet who is normally conservative, is more than happy for the 6 week, 12 week, 12 month routine. then every two years, with Kennel cough annually. I have not done the 16 week booster now for quite a number of years.

I do not desex my puppies early. I do not believe there are no total ill effects from it. However I have told potenital puppy buyers my pups are desexed at 8 weeks to help weed out ones I suspect are lying. It as been done and a very keen puppy buyer was then NOT keen. Found out that they DID want to breed a pet litter for the joy of their kids. In QLD a few years ago now, the AWL and other welfare organisations were pushing for compulsary desexing of ALL cats and dogs sold by breeders into legislation. The only way a breeder could keep an entire animal was if sold to another breeder. After community consultation, thankfully the bill was ammended and thankfully that was quashed on the head. What later came out was the Animal Management Act 2008. But the agenda is still there in some form. Some breeders routinely desex to prevent John Smith from going later on, "lets produce a litter so the kids can see the miracle of birth". On a breeder note. This is a recommendation I give to anyone looking for a puppy. If you do not like or are not comfortable with the conditions a breeder puts on their puppies. Look somewhere else. There are enough breeders out there who do breed responsibly.

Logistical nightmare... Imagine dogs who have very simlar markings... Imagine 2 or three black/white border collies in the same crate all having similar markings... Add to that.. they are all the same sex... May be hard on the other end for the freight company to difinitively say which puppy belongs to who if they do not have a microchip scanner to positively ID each puppy. There lies a legal nightmare if the wrong pup went to the wrong person. Easy when there are two to a crate and one is male and one is female.

Talk to the likes of Jetpets. Depending on size etc. Some airlines will allow more than one puppy to fly together in the same crate. But that was to the same person. It would be a logical nightmare trying to sort out at the other end who owns which pup with a freight company. I have seen up to 3 GSD's flown together.

Your puppy also is at risk from lack of socialisation as from parvo or kennel cough. Controlled outings where your puppy can be socialised and lessen the risk of socialising with unknown vaccinated dogs are good. I would stay away from high doggy areas like off lead parks, beaches where there are a lot of dogs congregating. (If you are near a beach that is not heavily populated or go down there out of busy times, I would). You would not be walking your 8 week puppy for long walks anyway. But a short walk to the end of your street or around the block should be fine. Get your puppy enrolled into a puppy school. Talk to your friends who may have dogs and have puppy play dates and have people come over and get to "play" with your puppy. A well adjusted and socialised puppy is a more delight to own, and less likely to be put down later on due to temperament or mis-behaviours.

Dr Annette Page - Canine Artificial Breeding Servies (CABS) http://www.caninebreeding.com.au/ Have had some great results and reports from her.

I had heard similar stories back when Wyburn was scoring as compared to the AVA. I know of the same plates being scored by the AVA being double what Wyburn scored them later. It is still concerning that there is such a difference between two people scoring the same plates. I can understand poor positioning and I know of people who have on the resport have a score then a comment afterwards, "on tilt" or similar. Personally, I would be considering the score somewhere between the two scores to be conservative. I would split the difference between those two scores when it comes to choosing a stud. I also know of dogs with 0:0 hips producing HD affected puppies, so just because parents have low scores, does not mean the puppies will automatically have low scores too.

I have used Biolac, Divetilac and also a milk replacer from the produce (generally its Wombaroo) and I can buy it in bulk or by the kilo. Never had a problem with either of these. At an emergency,I have used lactose free UHT milk or Goats milk if I run out or cannot get proper milk replacer. I use a milk frother to mix mine.

Minigirl, I know well that BC. Not one of mine, but a friends dog. As for that vet specialist.. It is probably too late now, but please find another. I can offer some recommendations. If they lose their progesterone once, theres is a high chance they will do it again. I would personally not breed the bitch again after this litter. From what I know of what my friend went through with that bitch and advise given at the time by vets. You will more than likely need a elect C-sect. PM me if you need more info.

Question: In NSW do you have to get your puppy buyers to sign a CCC limited registration agreement like you do here in Qld? That is "supposed" to protect both parties here. Not the first time the CCCQ have not stood by their own bilaws and ethics with regards to the sale and transfer of papers.. I cannot say any more as it is still going through channels.