Jed

I agree with you. I think he is probably in good condition, but you would need to see him up close and personal. I had a Cav bitch once, with a great spring of rib, and a body a litte long, but a very level topline. A lovely strong bitch. "Everyone" was always telling me she was too fat. I didn't think so. Then she needed a caesarian, and the specialist vet came out to specially tell me that she was the best conditioned bitch he had ever operated on ... on the inside, she was perfect. So, who knows? I think some breeds look too fat, and some look too thin, but that's the breed, not the dog.

It actually wasn't aimed at you, Melzawelza. According to the AKC standard and the Westminster judge, he was the dog most able. And I know SFA about labradors but I can understand a standard of excellence, and after reading the standard, that dog fits it very well. I don't think he is particularly fat, I think he is mature, and a dog with a big spring of rib, and good post sternum - and excellent bone. If dogs you see working do not look like that, maybe they are working well in spite of their conformation, and maybe this dog could do the job a lot better? He certainly has great conformation. Maybe the dogs doing the job would do it better if they looked like that? The standards were written by people with huge knowledge of the breeds, and they had seen the dogs working. Form follows function. Who knows, I have never seen the dog .... but he did beat a lot of other dogs to get to that position, and I presume that the judge is very experienced and knowledgable. But - if I bred Labradors, and I owned this dog, I might try him in the field to ensure that he had the heart - but I wouldn't risk him being injured in the field, I would breed with him and hope some of his progeny were taken up for work. Originally the St Johns dog was required to jump into icy water to pull in fishing nets, so "strong" is a given. They then developed to retrieve over all types of country and in water. Edited to say - it is easier to buy (and to breed) a dog with a few faults, rather than an excellent one. It occurs to me that the dogs used in the field may not have excellent conformation. Worth considering. Further edited to say - one of my 2012 litter went to work as a retriever/flushing dog. It was not the pick of the litter, which I kept to breed on with.

You are welcome to your opinion. I didn't suggest anything. I let the standard do the talking. It suprises me that you know more than the Westminster judge, and the breed experts who put together the standard - but then again - maybe not. I am sure there are some very good dogs on DOL - as there are very good dogs elsewhere, but you need a balanced outlook, and that includes seeing champion dogs from overseas. Life is very difficult for people who know so much already they will not admit any other view. aussielover Not at all. Someone needs to tell you. You apparently can't see it yourself. Who told you dogs with less than ideal conformation greatly benefit from being kept lean? Did they tell you why? I thought you were holding up your dog as a great example of the labrador breed? What is the breeding, incidentally? And this dog does work, does it? How does it go in the field?

According to the AKC standard, that dog would do it, Melzawela. The labs acknowledged as "top" dogs in Aust look like that too. When you look at that dog, from a conformation point of view, he could go all day - at a trot or slow canter, and do all the fetching and swimming he was asked to do. And pull up at the end of the day - tired but sound. One of the top lab breeders in this country wins royals and specialty shows with his dogs, and sells pups from show litters to work, and work they do; and win trials. As Mary R says, a badly conformed dog will do the job IN SPITE OF ITS CONFORMATION. I think, instead of putting our own interpretation on the standard, we should consider it as it was written, and why it was written as it is.

Good luck with your pug, I wish you great success and a long and happy life for the dog. As far as I can see, all the breeder has shown is that she is dishonest. If she really didn't want anyone to use her bloodlines, she could have put the pup on limited register; or put him in joint names until he was desexed. This protects her interests as well as fulfilling her obligations to Dogs Vic. Fact is, the breeder is disobeying the code of ethics of Dogs Victoria. If she is dishonest enough to dishonour an obligation she had to them, she could more easily dishonour any dealings with you. You have no guarantee that she will honour what she says about health issues. Pugs, even well bred ones, can have huge and expensive health problems. A pug from a brother sister mating can have dreadful health problems, costing thousands to fix. Where is the proof this pup is not a result of such a mating, and is not registered because Dogs Vic would not register them? And there is no proof that he is indeed, purebred. There is no proof of anything much, really, except that you have spent a lot of money on a pup with no bona fides. I can never understand why people buy pups from dodgy and dishonest breeders, who have proved they are totally unethical. Anyone who buys a pug from less than well conformed parents from ethical breeders is immediately in a world of hurt. A lot of breeds can have conformation problems, and never have a day's illness. If pugs don't conform to the standard, they are very likely to be chronically ill, unable to breathe .... oh, I could go on and on.

Marvellous that the pet owners here know more about specific breeds than some of the most learned judges in the country. ie, labradors, and Westminster. Of course the judge wouldn't know a good labrador. He has probably never seen one. Read up on the labrador - see what his job was .... and still is in a lot of cases. It was not to canter a couple of meters and drag home a sparrow or two. He needs a great spring of rib, excellent layback of shoulder and hindquarter to do the job he was meant for. He does not need long legs like a greyhound. I don't think the Westminster dog is particularly fat .... I think if you saw him and had your hands on him, he would prove to have an excellent spring of rib, and good conformation. and a "dense" coat, as required by the standard. Quotes from the AKC standard of the breed. If you get your rulers out, I think the dog pictured would prove to be properly proportioned. I suppose if you own a weedy labrador, lacking in bone, and in bad condition, you may think this particular Labrador is too fat and too low. Reading the standard shows that he is correct.

Does anyone have experience, and can recommend a good vet on the sunshine coast ... preferably Sippy Downs, Kawana, Maroochydore. Also a chiropractic vet or dog chiropractor in the same area Thanks in advance

It began in 90something. Not quite sure when, but obviously after 1995!! "They" are thinking of doing away with it in Qld. But we did manage without it, but times were different

So sorry Airedaler, such a sad loss for you.

Snake Oil!! And I wonder how someone who says "These vaccines were grown on monkey kidneys. Indeliberately the two former presidents were responsible for infecting 198 million Americans with sexually transmittable monkey viruses" and uses a non-word such as "indeliberately", can expect to be taken seriously. Conversely, there are a couple of not-main-stream-not-medical cancer treatments which do seem to have effected cures. Benadryl and Tagamet has a huge following in US - I have two friends who have used a non-medical treatment and found cures for melanomas and stomach cancer. CavNrott - there is quite a bit of evidence that raw food strengthens the connective tissue of the heart, thus reducing the incidence of MVD or delaying the onset in Cavaliers (Glickmann, Purdue), so keep on with the raw!!

May be too far from you, but Dr. Harry Corbett at Thrifty Vet Clinic at Bayswater - 03 97206800 - is an excellent all round vet. It's not about the money, it's about the welfare of the dog

There are some amazingly helpful people on here who love to give advice to others; on any topic. Unfortunately, they have little knowledge, and the advice is wrong.

Where was this? Could happen in WA. Not all pups registered. Rules have now been changed, all pups must be registered. Not in Qld. All pups must be registered ; this has been the rule for decades. Not sure about other states; think it is so in Vic and NSW OP - run as fast as you can. Without registration, the pup could be anything, and if the breeder wont register, they are dodgy. And report them to the VCA Well done for going elsewhere

So sad to hear about this. People should not keep dogs like this. Even though the dog next door has died (perhaps from injuries in the fight?) report it to the council, particularly that the dog jumped the fence and killed your dog. Send the people next door a bill for the husky. I'd find out how much a husky pup is, and charge them that. If they don't pay, take them to the small claims court for the money. Take the report the police should have made at the time with you. Get the landlord to write a statement about what happened to your dog. So sorry for you, and your poor dog.

Might not technically be in the COE, but it is against the spirit of the COE. Also fringes on "breeding to improve the breed" If you don't like the rules, don't join or remain a member, it's voluntary.

Four years have gone by today, and every day I think about you all. My baby girl Beth, gentle Roxy, and your 3 pups, your 2 year old daughter, Paris, always full of fun, Beautiful Meg, and The Best Cocker Spaniel in The World, Magnus. I know you are all happy over the Bridge. I hope you are still waiting for me to join you. Nearmap took this photo of the property, and of the bridge up in the sky - the Rainbow Bridge - waiting for you to cross - on the 11 May 2010. I miss you, dear companions.

Thanks Little Gifts, should have read all the thread!! :laugh: Good luck. Dancingbcs - the dog should be kept away because he may want to kill the pups; or he may like them and accidentally trample them; or the mother may guard them against him, and trample them while she is seeing him off. I wouldn't allow a male dog (any breed) anywhere near pups until I knew his form, and particularly not with a maiden bitch. How he and the mother behave with newborns will not be the same as they behave when the pups are 3+ weeks old. Better safe than sorry.

Good on you for caring. Report to the RSPCA. Continue to contact them until they inspect and talk to the owners. The owners may have no idea, and the RSPCA may be able to tell him how to correctly care for him. Just an opinion, and impossible to know for sure without seeing him .... I think he may be young or middle aged, and the grey around his muzzle is in fact some roaning, which often happens with some breedings. Not sure

Different genes. Like the ugly and the goodlooking ones from the same litter. I'll bet it was an outcrossed mating.

Depends on what you call not having to wait. Friend in Q approached many breeders in all states, took over 12 months to get a boy. I don't think colour was an issue.

Maltese - but so few purebred Maltese are being bred, she will probably never get one Shih Tzu Schipperke Pekingese Min. Pin Minature Dacshund Papillion Chinese Crested - maybe a powder puff Tibetian Spaniel presuming this cranky Cocker isn't going to be in a position to bite any of them!! There are probably more, too, but read up on those and others suggested, and see if one of them would suit, then check DOL puppy pages to see what's about. And from registered ANKC breeders who know which health tests the dogs need, can explain it to you, and do the relevant ones.

Move. The landlords have done the dirty on you and the dogs. There is only you to stick up for your dogs. Do it. And as Haredown says, get some legal advice. I would be packing NOW, would find something else, move out and then let them sue me. They wont, because they are wrong. Dodgy sods

Is that still going? Weren't they enabling those labradoodle breeders who were in the tin with the RSPCA?

And if the breeders aren't interested in this registry, and don't want to join? What then? If you don't know how many pure breeds there are, why are you advocating for more crosses to produce more pure bred dogs? It is a huge job to breed a purebred line from other breeds, and very expensive. Why would a breeder do that when there are already many many pure breeds out there? I don't understand what you are advocating. Go to the ANCK website, and read the requirements for a breed in development. As a breeder of 40 years + experience, I find it challenging enough to try to breed examples of the breed which are in accordance with the standard, with good temperament and health as well, without trying to develop some new breed.

Tobie - in your place, I would get a Cocker Spaniel. Not too difficult to acquire a show specimen, and not too expensive. You will wait for a long time for a Yank, and you may never get a show quality Cavalier. Cavaliers also change drastically from 8 - 10 weeks to adulthood, and it is possible to choose what everyone thinks is a show prospect, and find you have a lemon, whereas it is not so difficult to tell with Cockers. Things can and do go wrong,but not as often! Please go to a reputable breeder - and find one who will mentor you with grooming and showing in the beginning. I would go to shows in your area (join DogsNSW)and watch the dogs, and what is winning .... over half a dozen shows, or more. Wait until the classes are over, approach someone who is winning, and who you like the look of, and talk to them. Do that with a few breeders. It should not be too difficult to buy a nice show male within a reasonable time.