Erny

Eeeeeewww ..... you guys are gross. Rats give me the heebies too, although I'll deal with them if I need to. Remember the rate plague back in, ummmm .... when was it - mid-late 1970's ??? Rats of all colours (they tend to come in all colours : black, tan/gold, and so on, when in plague proportion) used to populate my horse feed shed and I was forever setting traps, calling Dad down to come shoot 'em (the ones who'd managed to snuffle their way into a barrel of feed. This plague was followed closely at their heels by a plague of mice. Same thing - all sorts of colours that we'd only usually see in pet mice. I'd set traps and sit in the feed shed to wait. Give it 10 minutes and all the traps would have gone off and I'd be re-setting them again. It wasn't worth leaving. A cat that I found (whilst out horse-riding) sewn into a hession bag and left at the side of the road, proved a real Godsend back then. (ETA: *cough* of course we'd taken the cat out of the bag and nurtured him back to health.) Cleaned up much of the mice problem in the feed shed back then. Not a cat person myself. But I really liked than cat. Tough and scarred Tom cat - acted more like a dog than a cat. He was a good friend.

Oh goody. Someone of my own generation .

Maybe I need to be rehabilitated through behaviour modification, BB . At least I have made my contribution towards lowering the fly count down. Anyone noticed how many more there have been, this year? Mind you, I think it is more a case of there not having been that many for the past few years rather than this year being more than usual. I recall my younger days and there were always loads of flies around in the warmer months back then. Of course, perhaps you wouldn't know. I think I go a fair way back further than many of you. Back THEN, we didn't have fly spray in aerosol cans. Lordy ..... I so sound like my folks. "Back in my day ............................... "

The maggots would have helped the wound, wouldn't they? I've had to deal with enough icky wound cleaning and caring in my years of having horses and I've never really worried about it. You do what you have to do. But I agree ..... I would have been shuddering at having to clean away maggots. They're only squirmy little white things. I don't know what it is about them that makes my insides crawl and my stomach flip over.

I have just come back in from washing down the decking (tank water - high pressure hose machine thingy). I did wash them off the decking, after they had been killed with the boiling water (which was after they'd been doused with vinegar - so they'd be well and truly pickled), but there were lots of deadens that got caught between the planks of wood that is the flooring of my deck. I thought I'd get over it, but it made me feel still, so I went out and scrubbed everything down out there, decking floor, the lot. I feel better now

Vehs - on a different occasion, after my first (bad) experience, I had to help a couple (clients) who unexpectedly lost their dog. On this occasion, the cremation person was wonderful. Not only was it on Christmas Eve night (late) that he took my call and we were able to make arrangements, but he came out on Christmas Day. He didn't mush over the dog, of which I was glad, but did utter a couple of kind and respectful words whilst he did his 'work' so he could transport the dog away. The car was done out nice - more than I would have insisted on, but it really was very dignified. The fellow I dealt with was a real gem about everything. I'm embarressed to say I've forgotten which company he was with. It might have been Pets at Peace but I'd need to check up to confirm. It was a couple of years ago. So there are some great ones around and the good ones are really helpful.

Well, these ones are gone, dead, caput ..... and I feel better. One little blighter survived the boiling water ( .... mutant super-being ???) so I gave it a double dose. It didn't get past that one. Yuck. However, I did spare a thought for what a horrible way to 'go'. I hate anything suffering like that. But obviously, it didn't stop me. So I'm not that 'saintly'. I'll probably dream of them tonight. Shiver. Kissindra - Eeewww ..... in the dog blankets !! Double yuck. Nannas - That's wierd about birds (smaller the worse) giving you the heebie jeebies. Wonder why that is. Bilbo - Don't think I could have handled the dead wool stuff. I earnt my money for my first mode of transport (car) by being a legal secretary. Much less eerkier than dealing with maggots. Teebs - feel free to help yourself to any maggots that might come along to my place any time soon or in the future. Being the sharing caring type of person that I am . Anniek - Apart from one big "GROSS" comment to your suggestion of using them as fishing bait, I can't fish. Meaning, I don't like the idea of the fish taking the hooks inside themselves. It is funny, because I can watch or look at certain gory stuff that others can't, but other things that people don't worry about, I get squirmy. Anyway - no more maggots at this house now. But I feel as though I now need to scrub everything down from top to toe. Jess - I don't know what it is with Mandela. Yeah, he's always been a bit hit and miss when it comes to giving him roo tails. When he is in the mood, he really enjoys it and it is gone in a fairly short time. Other times it can sit for a day or so, then he gets into it. Sometimes he just buries them. And sometimes (as was the case with this one) he just didn't bother with it at all. Without going into his somewhat complicated 'eating' history, the first bones he stopped eating way back when were lamb shanks. Then he wouldn't eat lamb necks. Of course, there was the period of time when I kept him strictly on roo (Vets All Natural "Allerblend") thinking it could have been the food items that were causing upset, so hence I got roo tails in. But as it turns out, 6 months on and he throws the same allergy upsets on that diet as he did for any other. So it seems it is not so much the food as it is his system. I give him chicken wings - sometimes he'll eat them eagerly. Sometimes he'll just drop them and walk off. I tried him with another lamb shank a couple of weeks ago (his first for 6 months or so) - he gave it a precursory sniff and walked away. I'll try him on other things that he's had before and eventually turned his nose up, to see if he is "over it", but at this stage, my freezer is chockers with all the food stuffs I've bought in batches but he's decided not to eat. I bought a load of roo mince in 1kg lots and froze them in their separate packets so I could give him a variation of foods (eg BARF rabbit, roo mince, chicken wings), but he won't touch it. In fact, the only thing he will eat at the moment is the BARF rabbit. Even then he has his moments. . He's been a bit better in more recent days though, although it is still inconsistent. But I'm hoping that the improvement will continue. It is hard to believe that this boy, when he was little, ate like there was no tomorrow and my biggest concern was that he would inhale the stuff. I liked that. I hope he'll return to that. He isn't well and I know that's the reason for all of this, but when I get his health back I do think a bit of 'competition' around feeding time wouldn't do him any harm.

Sorry, SSM. It's made me 'not hungry' too. Boiling water! . Talk about "lizard brain" .... I shoulda thunk of that. Off to boil kettle now. Cheers!

Some of you may know that I'm having some health issues with Mandela and part of the problem is that he isn't eating as well as he might and that his appetite is not consistent. I gave him a roo tail the other day and, not unusually, he didn't eat it. I moved it off the decking, which is where he last left it, to find it alive with maggots . I feel so dirty (shudder). Anyway, I've thrown the bone, but there's a heap of maggots left wriggling on the decking. I got some white vinegar and poured that over them, thinking it might kill them, but I don't think it has or will. I don't want to spray with insecticide in case Mandela decides to have a lick of the residual that will be left on the decking. Does any one know how maggots die? Do they die if their food source is removed? It's hot outside. I'm hoping they will bake and dry up. I can't stand the thought of having to sweep them up while they are wriggling. I feel sick just at the memory of the image of them that I have in my mind. I'm being a woose (sp?) I know.

I had a bad experience with the cremation service when I said 'good bye' to my (avatar) girl too. I didn't expect or even want all the trimmings in the car, but I expected something half decent. He arrived in a ute that looked as though it was a just that - a work ute. Nothing in the back on the floor of the ute - just metal which had seen a lot of work - half the paint scratched off. Normal vinal canopy cover. And the guy had his own dog in the cabin of the ute. He came in and I felt quite rushed - there were no niceties, no "take your time". I got a hurried "you want the blanket?" and I had to help him carry her out in it and assist in putting her in the back of the ute tray. There was no gentleness or respect about it. It was just 'business as usual'. When I saw his little dog jumping about in the cabin, it tore me apart. When he returned with her ashes, all he could go on about was the invoice that was included, even though I'd already paid. He could see I was 'losing it' but kept on. I had to wave him away, because I couldn't speak. I only hope that what I got was Kal. At least I didn't get the phone call that you did that would hint at a 'bumble'. I'm really sorry for your experience. These sort of things are the LAST thing that you need happen at such an emotionally traumatic and raw time. I don't know if it will help, but know that your girl will be around you - she isn't 'the ashes' ..... she is 'around' and looking down on you, hoping that your hearts heal.

Hey Erny can you please tell me where you get yours from? I used to get ours from South Melbourne markets but she doesnt stock them any more I purchased mine through "Porky's" in Cranbourne. But their price went up and this time around it worked out at $3.25 per bone - these were pre-cut. Minimum order is 20kgs (which isn't as much as you think) and the total cost of that I think (can't remember accurately) was $52.00 or thereabouts. Last time I got some the bones from there they costed out at I think about $2.25 each. They come frozen in one great big lump (sealed in a heavy duty plastic bag). I tend to find that by the time I get back home they have begun to thaw just a little, enough for me to wrestle the bones apart (takes a bit of work for some of them), bag them separately and pop them in the freezer. I wish my boy was better at eating (having probs) as he is very spasmodic about whether he'll gnaw on a roo tail (or any bone, for that matter) and I find that a good number end up just going to waste.

Oh, and Teebs? A bit OT to what the subject heading is, but my avatar girl had what I refer to as "tree trunk nails" - similar to what your boy's looks like, although most of hers were black, so even tougher. I couldn't clip them - the pressure that I would have had to apply would hurt her too much. I did the filing with tough and then fine files (builder type) that I purchased from Bunnings. That helped, but it took me sooooo long to do (minimum 2 hours) and I had to do it so often. I then bought a dremmel and didn't look back. I still had to do them every 2 weeks as her quicks wouldn't shrink back, so I could only ever take a small amount off. But instead of 2 hours, it took me about half an hour to do all four feet. I do my current boy's nails with the dremmel as well. He was ok with the nail clippers when he was a pup, but they are thicker and stronger now and I don't want to do anything to cause him pain and put him off having his nails done. So I switched to the dremmel. Would you not be able to do your boy's nails yourself if you used the dremmel method? Or is it just as convenient and not too costly to have them done at your Vet's?

No probs, Teebs. I'd never seen this on paw pads before and it got me interested enough to fish around. Would be interested to know what the Vet's thoughts are.

You would want to go for the AMH with a UMF of +20, at least. Higher if you can get it. A 250g jar of AMH UMF +25 is around $52.00 where I am. The only stuff I can get at the Supermarket near me is UMF +5 and that is around $10 for the 250g jar. I purchase my AMH from the health food store. Muttaburra - if you can get the UMF +20 for approximately $10, I'd love you to PM me. I'd ask you to organise to send me down a crate of it and I'd give you a tip for your trouble. Glad to hear that Mollie is fighting through this .

How can I know if you won't acknowledge it in discussion? huh?

Does this sound like it? Nasodigital Hyperkeratosis ETA: I see Rommi n Lewis, thought this a possibility as well. Here's a link to a picture where the actual pad seems to be affected - it doesn't seem to be as proliffic as your boy's, but the colouration is perhaps on its way to being similar?? Nasodigital Hyperkeratosis picture Oh - and here's another link with info and pictures. The pictures are clearer and the more I am seeing the more I think this is what your dog might have. And the fact they've referred to it as "Mutant Hairy Dog Feet" also makes me think this is it. Mutant Hairy Dog Feet There is a suggestion (that I've read in two links now) that the condition can be related to hypothyroidism or indicate low zinc levels.

I thought this as well. In fact, I think I remember reading something about this sort of thing when I was surfing the net via google looking for something else. If I can find it, and if it does look/sound like the same, I'll post a link up here. It was a while ago though, so I don't know if I will be able to find it.

Just to add : I can play a game involving one of Mandela's favourite toys "Shrek". We toss it around and we do a bit of tug with it. I don't use my *drive* commands or cues when I work with this. I see the difference in him, in the 'way' he plays this game. It is more gentle (even though he is vigorous) and he throws in play bows during this game. He might bark occasionally, although that's not overly common, but it does happen. I can tell with this he is more into a play than a prey drive. When I use his known "prey drive on switch", he is sharper in his command responses and there are no play bows and he never barks. He is more intense in his body language and facial expression. If I have him 'playing' (as described above), he is more open to breaking off if he hears or sees something in the environment. When he is in prey drive, he is less easily distracted. I don't say 'impossibly distracted' because his prey drive is not as strong as the prey drive as others, but certainly is less inclined to be distracted when in the mode.

I feed raw roo tails as well. The meat and the bone gets eaten.

Ever think your definition might be what the problem is? I am using the term and definition that everyone has been using - for decades, and the one I believe in. I can't use your definition as that's just it - it is yours and I don't believe that yours is correct. I acknowledge that Diva and Cosmolo have used a manner of speaking that you obviously enjoy more. My more direct phrasing and the fact that I do express when I disagree, is something that you've never taken a liking to. I can't help that . Corvus, I don't think you understand play/prey drives enough for your definition to be accurate. There are many posts in here from many different people trying to explain this to you, but I don't think you've taken much if anything from what they have said and explained, on board. I'm not going to talk using your terminology because I do not think that you are correct. Wow. You really are rude, aren't you? Where'd you learn that? Ever thought that perhaps your posts are sometimes so confusing and convoluted that it is difficult to understand or recognise what you are really trying to say? I've already shown you by example quotations of some of the thing you say which completely contradict themselves. But seeing as you've continued on, after telling me to go away and come back "with something more interesting to talk about" I'll add the following in relation to the above : First, you are talking about wild animals with unbridled prey drive. We are talking about domestic animals who have been selectively bred, many sporting different components of prey drive. Second, what you've described above sounds more in the realms of resource guarding, rather than the components of prey drive that are utilised in *drive training*. Third, by telling someone here to make "damn sure you work in play drive and not prey drive" and given the context of your posts and the discussion this thread has turned into, it pretty much tells me you're saying it is dangerous. Even this part of your post suggests it. Problem is, Corvus, you aren't recognising all the components of prey drive. You are inventing your own terminology that suggests that for an animal to be in prey drive it must catch and kill. Chase and bite is a component of prey drive, but you seem to be finding this difficult to comprehend or acknowledge. Also, you don't seem to acknowledge that *training in drive* is exactly that - "training". Your posts seem to ignore the fact that there is structure and training involved. That's rude, yet again. YOU want to engage in "conversation" - so you said. Yet you are rude to those very people who will engage in it with you, just because you don't like the phrasing style of their posts. Or at least, so it seems. This sort of retort is really arrogant.

What I am puzzled by, Corvus, is that there are hundreds of examples of dogs trained using prey drive who exhibit exemplary obedience and behaviour. There are also many around who, with the use of training using prey drive, have been rehabilitated from other less desirable behaviour (including aggression to other animals; chasing; etc). Have you not included these in your research? Yet, as a zoologist who has studied animal behaviour, you are arguing that training that utilises prey drive is dangerous because if prey drive is utilised then we are teaching our dogs to kill ??? Or are you arguing that all these dogs "trained in drive" that I've referred to above are not actually utilising prey drive, but are playing/in play drive? I'm bringing this one in as I think that your "journey in communication" is steering away from your first conjecture here.

He's 18 mo now, ZA. Thanks for the tip regards the Urticaria Urens. I'll keep it in mind and will raise it with the naturopath and potentially with Mr. Templeton if need be. I am doing my best to keep things as simple as I can (although I've partly gone beyond that ) and trying to not be impatient by giving things time to work. If I don't, I won't know what's attributed to what. I've already created a situation where, with improvement, I won't know what to allocate what to, or potentially consider it a combination of administrations. I'm keeping a close check on the hives, and using Calendula to ease overt discomfort when necessary. I would like to expect that there will be a noticeable reduction in the numbers of hives in the next 1 - 3 days. Beyond that, if they don't look like improving at all, I'll need to step back in by contacting his Naturopath again. Next Monday sees Mandela completing the 14 days of meds provided by Barry Templeton. I then take another hair sample and send it in to him for further analysis.

I've never seen it in chemists, either. But yours might carry a more diverse stock, perhaps. For a packet it is only $8.00 .... so I suspect that internet would prove costly by the time you factor in postage. But you never know . I hope that it is just a one-off passing thing for Kei. The Calendula tea stores well though, and if you don't look like using it on Kei you could always have a drink of it yourself for the health benefits it derives .

Thanks SnT. I had googled for Dermotologists, and MVSC was one of the main ones I looked at. I am willing to travel if it means I get the best person/s and MVSC is not that far by comparison to other veterinary professionals I have gone to for the same reason. Mandela's at the 7-day mark with the meds from Mr. Barry Templeton. Last night's dinner time was the most excited I've seen him for his meal than I have in a good month or so. And he ate the full quota, pretty much in one hit. I need to see this occur more frequently for me to be satisfied that things are coming back to normal, though. He is looking a bit more solid with the weight that seems to be coming back on as well. I hesitate to say that though, as these good signs can be short lived. So . He is still covered in hives and this batch has been more itchy for him than the last. However, the Naturopath did warn me that with the detoxing meds (from Barry Templeton), I might see them worsening, as the body detoxifies. I am hoping that the hives will now begin to diminish and ease and might call Mr. Templeton, if I can contact him at this time of year, and ask him what he thinks I should expect, and how soon. He did say that I should begin to see improvement in 7 days after commencement of the meds, but I'd like to check that he was making reference to everything overall (hives included). This last batch of hives has also been more in numbers, affecting Mandela's forehead, chin, cheeks, upper and under neck, chest, trunk, inside front and back legs, and a few on his rear thighs. But the hives are also smaller than they were the first time they flared on him. The numbers of hives I do think have worsened in the last week, and this could be as the Naturopath suggested they might. Mandela is coping, and I avoid patting/touching him as much I can, so that I am not disturbing them and causing more itching. But I would want to know that I can very soon (ie from today onwards) expect to see a reduction in their numbers.

I've only ever purchased Calendula from a Health Food Store. I would doubt that it would be in the supermarket. I have the Calendula cream as well, but for the purposes of the rash/s that appeared in Mandela's arm pits, I didn't find it responded as well as the tea. Perhaps his skin in that area didn't appreciate the moistness that forms the base of the lotion. If the Calendula works, you should (going by my own experience) see results inside 24 hours or so.