Erny

The stress would come because of the dog not receiving drive satisfaction. The OP is going to K9 Force's drive workshop so we know that she will receive good tuition there. When you have control of the "drive" I don't think there can be "too much".

Health Food Store. It comes in a packet. Calendula is Marigold Flowers (dried). Use the toe of an old socking to put a tablespoon or two in, pour boiling water and brew it to make the tea. Let it steep until it cools. You can then use a flannel saturated with it to rub in and through your dog's coat, down to the skin.

Your description sounds like a yeasty smell. Avoid shampoos. Try, first off, Calendula Tea wash. My boy has allergy symptoms and he too has periods where his skin smells yeasty/musty. Sometimes his coat carries a greasy feel as well. The calendula tea wash, which is anti-bacterial as well as soothing, tends to ease the skin symptom and helps to stop any secondary skin infection, as well as leaving the coat feeling better and smelling more fresh. It is also a natural substance and does not contain the chemicals that produce the froth that shampoos have, which is better for the skin as well and doesn't affect natural PH balance.

Follow the "TOT" program (pinned to this forum).

Kayla1 ..... if you want to contact me and organise to come around, I'll be happy to show you how to begin to make this problem less of a problem. No charge - I'll just show you how to begin to get him to be better about his nails. No time until in the early New Year though. I agree with others - better for you to do it yourself, and at home, if you can.

Ahhhh .... s'ok. I thought that if you were local to me, I might be able to arrange to pick her up for you and take her to the Vet on your behalf. But USA is just a tad too far to travel ............................. ETA: I see your Mum's taking Dixie to the Vet's on Wednesday for you. Good . Good onya, Mum . I'm not a "vaccination" advocate. I do the puppy vaccinations and that's all. I don't know what it is like where you live, DK, but I do follow the vaccination protocol recommended by your very own Dr. Jean Dodds. The point that I'm raising this for is that I wouldn't give a vaccination at least UNTIL I found out what was wrong with your dog. But that's just me.

I agree with you SM. But many "average" dog owners just want to own a dog. And have fun playing with it. And it with them. And have it respond to them when they most need it. They don't want to spend their precious extra time studying "Dog Drives 101". And I have found through my classes that they don't really have to know and understand dogs' drives, to be able to do it and simply enjoy it. The main thing that they know and understand is the structure of the game and why it is important that they train it through, and not just run madly around with a toy hoping the dog will chase it. I've had a good number of people come through my "Foundation Level" classes now, and once the people catch on to how to structure this style of 'play' and how it can be used for and in other things, you can really see their dogs' training blossum. Yet I don't even mention the word "drive" in the lessons that I give. Yep - you will . And I can vouch for how well SM and Eddie have come along .

My thought too.

A change of diet could help - she just might not suit what you have her on. Fresh/raw is good. Bathing every 2 months, IMO, is too frequent. Stripping skin and coat of natural oils. Try stopping the baths (brush regularly instead - that will help in keeping her coat clean). I'm not saying hypothyroidism is the case, but lethargy is one of the signs that shows up LATER (when the thyroid is about 70% destroyed). In early onset thryoiditis, just because she is not lethargic, doesn't mean thyroidism is not the culprit. Omega blend oil (Vets All Natural) is good to add into the diet. VAN also have a skin support product (additive) that you might like to look into to see if it would be suitable. I presume she has been wormed? Or (as I do) had a worm burden count done to ensure there is not an over-burden? I'm very 'in' to stopping and not using any chemical where I don't need to. These things (wormers; spot-ons; heartworm preventatives; shampoos; regular vaccinations) that we use ever so regularly as recommended by many Vets and of course the drug companies who sell it to you via their media advertisements, can create a pretty big chemical load for dogs to carry as well. I'm in Victoria and one of the good things about being here (at least there is SOMETHING going for us ) is that the incidence of heartworm is negligable and we don't have a tick problem. Where I live I don't have a flea issue. So I don't use spot-ons; I don't use heartworm preventative; I vary rarely bath my dog; I get worm burden counts done instead of just using chemical wormers 'just in case'; and I titre test instead of administering vaccinations. What I'm suggesting is that you do away with any of these chemical preventatives that you can, depending on the area that you live in.

Agree with Huski.

Huh . Who's talking about Schutzhund here? And "gung-ho" with drive training? What do you mean? Personally, I think Pete.the.dog would find it easier to wait until she gets to go to Steve's workshop, and just spend the time in between building her dog's drive/attraction to the tug. 1. Being 'there' and being able to actually see it in work adds a lot to just reading about it. 2. There are various ways different trainers train. If PTD follows at least one way first (the one she can learn the best from) then she is less likely to either make errors or train in a way that she later decides she wishes she didn't. You don't think that's what we're already talking about? I don't follow your post, Corvus.

You'll learn a lot by attending the workshop. In the meantime, just spend the time working up Pete's drive and hunkering for the tug toy. If you have some drive built up for it, this will help when you attend the workshop.

You may find it is different when he understands that there is a toy that YOU will play with him with. You can purchase a pocket tug, but once you get things going you'll most likely need to upgrade. I use a soft tug that I purchased through DogQuip in South Australia. If you contact him and let him know you spoke with Judi at Pro-K9 and that I mentioned you might do well with the soft tugs such as what I use, he'll be able to help you. Here's a picture of the type of tug/s I mean .... Check with Kurt - my only uncertainty is that I can't see your dog and these types might be a bit too large for Pete.

Well, if it is the ONLY one he'll play with, you don't have much choice. However, I like to use soft tugs, something really comfortable for the dog to bite hold of and keep that hold, otherwise they can be put off from tugging. Plastic isn't necessarily the ideal for that. You can use that toy to get going with, and then switch over to something better for tugging purposes, perhaps. I have many people tell me their dog will ONLY work with such and such toy. But when I bring out a pocket tug (which I just use to get dogs going), they often enjoy that, to their owners amazement. Sometimes it's a matter of making the toy seem like fun to get them interested. People have a tendency to give up too soon, too easily and sometimes it's the preference of the owner that has a subtle influence over the dog's preference. Just sometimes.

What sort of toy is it? If it is suitable as a tug, then I'd use the one he loves ..... but you need to remove it so that he never has free access to it. Once your training is well and truly under way, you'll find that you can pick up almost anything and use it. But to develop drive, you want to use something Pete really loves. Correction : It's not that I thought your Pete looked like a pug. It's just that I know a dog named "Pete" and he is a pug. Known by a few as "Pete the Pug", which is why I had "Pug" in my head. I forgot to look at your avatar before I began posting.

First you really need to get Pete well and truly addicted to the "drive" game. To the point that Pete recognises YOU as the deliverer of drive satisfaction. When you have the "game" sorted and working really well under minimal distraction, THEN you generalise the training in places such as parks etc. BUT, being in the (eg) park will be distracting enough without the added distraction of other animals, so pick a time when it is quiet/empty. This should provide enough distraction to be a distraction, but not so much that he won't be interested in the drive "game", and realise that "hey, you provide me with drive satisfaction even here!!". Then you work it so that the distractions, bit by bit (use distance as your 'friend') increase, but not so much that his interest in the "game" dissipates completely. You will most likely find that his intensity for the tug will reduce when distractions are introduced, which means you'll need to work a little harder (ie energetically) to make it really really interesting. And keep the sessions nice and short. But work them frequently. And if/when you notice something that you know will take Pete's attention away from you, get in there with your "drive" word ..... get him 'onto' you before he is 'onto' the distraction. In this way he'll be able to orientate, but hopefully not to the point that he becomes completely unaware of you and the "game". With this sort of work, he'll come to believe that being with you, drive satisfaction will occur, and therefore the other things in life that he sees should prove to be a less strong trigger than it is at present. How successful drive training in depends on the genetics of your dog. I have a Rhodesian Ridgeback. His prey drive is not the same as the prey drive of a (eg) Malinois. Which means I have to work hard to keep him going into tug in times of strong outside distractions. Whilst his prey drive may not carry the intensity of other dog breeds, I am very glad for what I have built up as it has seen us successfully calling away in instances where he otherwise might not have, and boy!!! with such speed and a look of intense expectation of something great! Without looking back to your avatar, I think Pete is a Pug, from memory? You'll need to take into consideration that his drive is unlikely to match to a high degree of that of other known "high prey drive" breeds, but that's not to say it is not worth working for and making the most of whatever "prey drive" nature has given him. ETA: Correction - I see Pete is NOT a pug, LOL. But the essence of what I'm saying still applies. You should work him on a long line whilst you are building up his drive. If he gets an opportunity to self satisfy his "drive" from other things than you, it will unravel what you are working for. I use drive training in combination with e-collar training. The two things are very complimentary to each other. ETA: Working him through the TOT program is another way of working "in drive" but in that instance, the drive satisfaction is food. I'd recommend you follow the program (pinned to the top of the training forum - K9 Force is the author) as this gives you the opportunity to work drive in two different ways, depending on whether your dog is into food in that moment, or tug. It also helps to increase pack drive, which is a big advantage to any training you endeavour.

Yes - I read that in the Judy Gard thread too, I think. But couldn't tell you which post or by whom. Maybe about half way through the thread? Or perhaps one third in. JDavis ...... I too suspect Sandgrubber is an RSPCA employee, or has some connection. But I don't blame anyone who does work for them, to want to support the RSPCA, at least as far as the good that they might do. Especially as what is happening in Victoria is potentially worse than in other States. I'd probably feel like I'd been tarred as well, if I worked for them, and hurt that my own intentions are good, honourable and genuine, but that thoughts of this are washed away with the wrongs of an RSPCA in a certain state. Are RSPCA's across the nation connected in any fashion? I would presume so. Otherwise they'd be a bit like franchises, wouldn't they? If they are connected, then the RSPCA's of other States should join to help remedy the "nut cracker" (quoting Mita's expression, I think) actions by the RSPCA here in Victoria. And if there is a connection, then there MUST be a "head" some where ..... an overseer who has the responsibility of RSPCA policy and performance? Even franchises have "oversee'rs" who draw up policy and govern performance.

Yes ..... I went off on a little tangent of my own there, for a bit, although I think the points I've raised remain relevant. I'm imagining a dog who hasn't learnt HOW to play rough with HUMAN, or, through the incorrect actions of the human, has learnt to play it wrong. My thought also was the possibility that it was semi-accidental. I've had my lip catch the tooth of my dog (complete accident) and it split my lip and swelled up. And his mouth wasn't even open. And yes, you're right, PF. If the razzing up was too much, it might have been a defence response or just OH taking it to that "senseless" level. And/or we might have a dog who thinks IT controls the game, rather than the other way around. Hard to tell without having seen it, but by all accounts, sounds like OH invited it. Thing is, we can teach our dogs how to play appropriately with us, even in "rough house". ETA: To me, "rough housing" is a bit of an extension to basic handling. As with any training, if it's not done right though, it can go pear-shaped.

I teach "rough play" gradually - more like a training/behaviour lesson, rather than rough play for just the sake of it. I start it when the pup is old enough to have learnt (through my 'training') to have some sort of self-control. I start slow and gentle - almost like playing at rough-housing in slow motion. I can stop the play when I've reached the point where my dog gets a bit too rough and I always play 'one decible lower' (if that makes sense) than his 'worst'. In other words, I don't play so rough with him that I promote roughness from him. Play stops when his roughness exceeds mine. Actually, my boy knows the words "don't bite". He makes me giggle because if, in play, he forgets himself and I see him going to use his mouth, I say "don't bite me" and he often turns his open mouth into a yawn ..... as though he was never going to put his mouth on me in the first place. I'm conscious of when the play is about to get too rough BEFORE it ACTUALLY gets too rough, and I alter MY play to temper that of my dog's. I think rough play is a good thing - as a teaching tool first, then when BOTH dog AND human know the rules and how to play the game, as fun. But this is not what to do with a very young puppy (who have attention spans of nits and don't have the mental capacity for too much self-control at that stage) or with a dog who doesn't yet understand first that putting teeth on skin is not what you do. To rough play with a dog without thought or consciousness as to who is training who to do what, then you're asking for trouble.

Agree, and in essence this is much of what people in this thread are saying. IE .... that the original "structure" is ok, but due to the actions of those who run it, it has gotten out of hand in more recent years.

Perhaps ..... except that telling the truth of what the RSPCA does is not "bad-mouthing". It's evening up the balance of truth. I hear what you are saying and I agree that is ONE way (not to the exceptions of all other ways) to do things. But one of the things that also needs to occur is for the Government which gives the power that it does to the RSPCA to recognise that not all is good. And one of the ways to encourage the Government to open its eyes is by it understanding that more and more of its public are becoming aware of the issues within the RSPCA. This, of course, in amongst the usual things such as letters, meetings, websites, submissions, etc.

They don't have to supply "proof". Just letters from other groups who happen to agree with it/him (ie RSPCA/Hugh Wirth). Natural Justice and Procedural Fairness doesn't seem to have to apply when it comes to regulating/legislating. I agree with you regarding the more -vs - lesser support that the RSPCA gets from the joe public. But that shouldn't stop people from voicing their objections (not that you said it should). And this can be done in the form of : telling people of these factual stories (eg. this one; Ruth Downey; etc. etc.); giving donations to some other charity; letters (they accumulate, over time); engaging in the Christmas Card Challenge suggested by the MDBA with the notation "Concerned about the RSPCA powers" on them; voting with your feet; on the back of your voting slips, writing something similar (ie "Concerned about the RSPCA powers"). Keep letting them know you're not happy. After all, when you're in trouble, do you only cry out for help once and quit when no one responds?

I haven't followed this through as much as I intend, just yet. In the meantime of initiating contact with Mr. Templeton, Mandela took a down turn. Went off his food. Subsequently lost weight. Has broken out into hives all over his body again. In the last two weeks I've spent much time tripping around different places picking up different foods and trying to get him to eat it. He eats some. Then stops. I've gone to see a Naturopath and I have tablets and powders, along with advice as to a diet, to try to get into him. The tablets are easy. The powders - well, they're easy if he eats. In amongst all of this (a lot of work : food preparation; doesn't eat? back in the fridge; tabs; trying to get powders into him via water and honey; offer food again; eats some; pack rest away back in fridge; offer again later; doesn't eat it; throw it away; get more out of the freezer in anticipation of the next meal and hoping he'll eat it; Calendula tea washes to ease the discomfort of the hives in the meantime ..... so on, so forth). I've got to give this some time to see what works and hoping that the cycle will be similar to the last, where we went through the hive and fickle eating state and then came good. Just picked up some more additives - "Pre-biotics" (as opposed to pro-biotics). These are supposed to settle nausia and make him feel better hopefully enough to encourage him to eat again. Gave one earlier and he's finally polished off his dinner. I still need to ring Mr. Templeton to ask what is in the liquid he gave me and also what the tablets are. I've just been spending most of my extra time doting on my boy and following him around with a fresh bowl of something or other so I haven't quite got around to the phone call. Hopefully will get a chance on Monday, in amongst my Christmas shopping. I normally have that all done by now, and without clues as to what to get some of the members of my family, I'm beginning to panic. ETA: I've given my Naturopath a copy of Mr. Templeton's report. I'll be speaking with her to see what she thinks as well. She's quite interested. She arranges saliva analysis and if things don't turn around for the better soon for Mandela then I'll ask her again about the benefits of getting this done. Naturopath has informed me that getting him 'right' will take a while and that we need a few more weeks to give things time to begin to work, heal and improve. Sorry ........... that was a long answer, wasn't it?

But it's often the RSPCA who seeks these pieces of legislation in the first place, not necessarily with any evidence that they are required. And then there are the times when the RSPCA uses its discretion badly - without discourse to consideration of the impact on the dogs by the very fact the RSPCA choses to seize them. And it is the RSPCA who advertises (coincidentally talking about a Rotty incident) to its adoring public things such as " .... a jealous dog plots and waits for the main chance ....". And it is the RSPCA who cleverly uses propeganda to help win its adoring but unknowing public over. And it is the RSPCA who pushes for BSL ..... and in Victoria, still pushes it. But wait - that fits in with my first point raised as even back then, reports from around the world showed that BSL did not serve to reduce bite stats. And of course, those reports were submitted (in the due course of the Government "inviting public submission") but seemingly ignored. It was full steam ahead and I don't doubt for a second that it was going to be anything but. RSPCA aren't the bad guys? Sorry, but with what I see, hear, perceive and experience, RSPCA are much the 'bad guys' in so many varying ways.

And Souff