Erny

And maybe in addition do a study on the humans who make up the laws for humans who own dogs, and only allow the ones that pass the "sensible test" to reproduce. That would rule out all the current politicians. Oh well. Se la vie *giggle* ..... No, just kidding. That wouldn't be good. There are some great politicians. Short Quiz ..... name them Edited to add the word *Short*

What experience/evidence are you basing your thoughts on, Corvus? I mean, how did you come to that conclusion? But, if Kivi is playing, how do you know that Kivi's goal is to get your rabbit out of the cage? Dogs learn through play - that's what they do as a litter, and many of their actions are preparatory for when they mature and need their hunting skills. So of course they "think" when in play. If they weren't thinking, they wouldn't learn.

I didn't ask for an apology, Corvus. But your posts are a bit all over the place. Without quoting you precisely, you've said in one that you have no drive training experience. In another you've told someone to avoid training in drive (which engages prey drive). In another you've said you change your mind every day. In another you reference your Zoology qualification and your animal behaviour studies (context being that you must therefore know what you are talking about, I presume, or at least in the reading of it, that is what it seems to infer.) In another you indicate that you always make disclaimers. In another you make a statement as though you know about drive training. You've expressed frustration at some of the responses you've received to your posts. But I find it very difficult to know from yours whether you are asserting something (with the inference that you know it) or whether you are exploring by way of conversation.

Yes, I've seen a dog (not mine) kill another animal - mice, rats, wild rabbits. With my boy, the 'chase' component of that "drive" is not dissimilar to the 'chase' component of the tug. And when he gets the tug, whether I release it to him in a 'win' or hold it, the tug receives a good hard shake sometimes. But if he accidentally catches my hand with a tooth of his mouth (which happens very rarely these days), his ear set goes down a fraction and I see him hesitate, and his grip reduces. I've taught him this. I've harnessed that component of prey drive that comes with the blessing of his genetics and I've trained it to work for ME. As a result of that, I have a greater chance of calling him off other things that his genetics might otherwise dictate to trigger into prey drive towards. I agree with Cosmolo. I think that what you are talking about when you refer to "play drive" is in fact "prey drive" but a reduced intensity of it.

And if it happens anywhere first, it'll be Victoria ..... I'd hedge my bets. Ain't it. We may be labled "paranoid" but with current (and not so current) events which have followed laws, some of which we've been assured "would never be used in THAT way" (but have), then I don't think they should blame us. It's about trust. And I don't have any. And maybe in addition do a study on the humans who make up the laws for humans who own dogs, and only allow the ones that pass the "sensible test" to reproduce.

You make statements, Corvus, and potentially ones which are detrimental to anyone who would think "gee, she is a zoologist, she must know .....". Such as .... I promise you that the trainers are NOT "remotely threatened by" you. It is more that we are concerned that others reading, who might assume that you have expertise in the field of "drive training" when you don't, may be influenced by your statements about it.

There's a point. The pup might have learnt to soil his bed from whence he came. Nekhbet .... sometimes the ol' "shut the door on the crate straight off and leave him there/ignore if he's creating" method can actually serve to heighten anxiety in the pup, and turn the crate into a not so nice place to be. Whilst it might work with some, it may not for others. I still like to do at least some of the introductory steps first, as if it can be done 'softly' and without issue, there is less risk of the pup getting stressed out about it. Schnauzers can be stubborn critters at times, I agree, but they can also be sensitive. I also like to use the night time, when the pup is sleeping, as a way of having it used to the crate door closed. I found it easier to do this with absolute minimum to no fuss, by having my boy in my room with me. Mind you, that's still his place . The pup might also have already developed a dislike for being 'trapped' through being in the 'puppy tank' if he was purchased from a pet store.

They are looking for completely driveless dogs? I wouldn't think that's what the majority of Australians want in a dog. They want dogs to chase balls; to retrieve; to bark to alert a trespass; to respond well to trained commands. They want them for their personality traits (even if one of those is digging in the garden). They want them to chase the waves when they visit the ocean, and even perhaps to lark as they chase the seagulls away. They herald them when their dog herds their young children away from danger. And of course, those things, plus a dog who will listen when their owner needs to talk to off load a worry or an upset. All of these instincts (and more) stem from the drives (whether they are subtle or more obvious) that they've been selectively bred for or incidentally to. I'm picturing them looking for a dog that just hangs around the house with or without its owner. That just sits with or on the owner's lap when the owner sits. That just eats its meal. That just pees and poops outside. That will go for a walk but without much interest in the environment and therefore no behaviour that needs to be trained out. That doesn't 'care' very much about much. Am I so passionate about dogs that this doesn't turn me on? Am I in a minority on that score? ETA: I didn't read the link to the paper.

Expecting even an adult dog to ignore/leave (eg) horse or cow manure that's in the garden surrounding them can be a pretty tall order, let alone an inquisitive pup. It is normal, and provided there are no harmful things in the garden (such as slow release fertilisers etc. ) then it won't harm your pup. But, as you wouldn't want this to become a habit, for the time being, section the garden off so your pup can't get to it. Later, if your dog still has a mild interest in it and doesn't over do it, you can teach the "take it outside" command. I taught that one to my boy from the very first time I gave him a bone, when he was only a wee thing. He doesn't bring bones inside now. Well, 99% not. Sometimes he tries a sneeky when the weather isn't favourable. But it's only usually just inside the doorway and I only have to say "take the bone outside" and he picks it up and trots out with it, and drops it outside before he comes back in. Continue your toilet training regime. Your pup is still very young and new to 'toilet training' and I wouldn't consider there having been enough time to call him "toilet trained". Have you worked on training him to get the idea that the door closed on the crate is an ok thing? You do this incrementally, door shut for moments and open, before he has a chance to become anxious about it and 'carry on'. IE You are teaching him in this initial small way that being calm is what will get the door opened for him. Does he sleep in the crate at night with the crate door closed? You're right - it is a "piece of string" type question. So long as you are doing all the things to show him that mouthing doesn't gain him what he would like, and provided you are training him what chew items he can satisfy his need to chew on, then you should see a gradual decline in the intensity of mouthing. You need to be assertive, but calm, and clear in your messages to him, showing him that you are the leader. And show him each and every time he mouths that to do this to humans is not on. I definitely like to see a dog having learnt this by no later than 6 months of age, but prefer it to be pretty much learnt by about the 3.5 - 4 mo mark. Obviously, sooner is better, but I'd be concerned if there is no remarkable reduction by that time. If there is, don't delay in seeking some help as the sooner you get this right, the easier it will be to manage and change. Depending on the dog, you might see a resurgence in this at around 6-7 months of age, so be ready for that and don't drop your guard. Be consistent. These age indicators are only very rough and there will be many pups who are vastly different in their learning times -vs- inclination to mouth.

Don't worry about waiting until next time you bath him. In fact, I'd be inclined to not bath him too much - let the skin find its natural PH balance. If you infuse the Calendula into a tea, you can apply it with a flannel soaked in it, and wet his coat down to the skin, especially at the affected area. I tend to find the Calendula leaves the coat lovely and clean and fresh smelling. Does Kei have pollen allergy? I read that you need to be a little on the careful side with that, given that Calendula is made from the Marigold flower plant.

SK .... as one of the symptoms to his already seemingly complex health issues, Mandela suffers this as well. I use the Calendula Tea to wash him down to help with his hives (I think you've read of the problems I am having with him) and I did notice this has a very positive effect on the oiliness and the flakiness of his skin. His oiliness and flakiness, when it does occur, is not completely restricted to his ridge, but it does occur predominantly along his ridge. It is generally worse up near his shoulder blades, at the rosette end of the ridge, although it does get him down on his loin area as well at times. The Calendula Tea is antibacterial and is soothing and chemical free. ETA: I agree that a Vet consult to confirm the absence of parasites is one of the first steps to take. I don't think the Calendula Tea wash would harm in any way, but I'm not a Vet. Mind you, Vets often lean towards the chemically based shampoos anyway, so they may not even be aware of the benefits of CT. Reported use of Calendula includes treatment in cases of certain mites as well. Calendula

Did you teach him the "back" that he knows, by using lure? If so, use the same/similar technique, but do it with him at your side in heel position. You can use your "back" command (assuming that the lure method is working) but if you want him to learn to heel with you, you'll need to wean off from this command.

I don't like the sound of it either. As though someone is somehow 'setting up' for future restrictions. Not to mention their documented records of their 'findings' of you and your dog. Who was the email from? Who is the overseer to the PhD study?

Thank you, ZA. I'm taking all of this into account. I am concerned about AB's (not to mention Cortisone). A Vet put him on a course of AB's when he first showed signs of colitis. He ended up with very dark nasty diarrhoea and things went downhill from there. But I am willing to discuss it further with an expert in the field of dermotology and see what he/she has to say on things. I would imagine that the best time to see a dermotologist would be now .... whilst Mandela is symptomatic (ie covered in hives).

Thanks for the explanation and info, ZA. I will speak to our Naturopath about it as well, before I 'dive in' elsewhere. BUT .... unless the naturopath has a recommendation to who would be the best in terms of dermatologists is concerned, does anyone have any strong and highly regarded recommendations for any dermatologists I can go to? I'm in Berwick (South Eastern suburbs, Melbourne) but I'm willing to travel if that's what I need to do, to go to someone good. I want to hear what they have to say first and potentially do the tests. Will give consideration to the rest (ie any prescription to drugs) once I'm better armed with knowledge. One (that I know) of Mandela's litter brothers suffered from this as well - although his outbreak occurred earlier in his life than did Mandela's. I don't think they had quite the problem I have had regarding the eating and hard to gain weight issue though. They went the antibiotic/cortisone route, but it was re-occurring regardless. I don't know what antibiotics they had him on, nor for how long the course was.

Had a small read up on the staph infection side of things. If I'm reading it correctly, Staph is dormant on the skin in all dogs. But some dogs can be allergic to the very staph bacteria that is dormant and this in itself causes irritation, which brings on scratching (OR, dog has a 'normal' itch and scratches, but this disturbs the staph bacteria), which results in the multiplication of staph bacteria, which starts the whole sequence off into a major outbreak. ZA ..... is my understanding correct? If it is, then I really need to have him tested for allergy to the bacteria of his own skin - bacteria that in the 'normal' dog would not be an issue, but may be an issue for my boy due to hypersensitivity. ???? Am I right? ETA: Not all the hives erupt. Many do. But many also appear and then can recede within 24-72 hours.

Thanks, to everyone who contributes here. I'm not rejecting anything that is suggested. A question on the staph infection, ZA (I hadn't even considered that). Would your thoughts on this be the same even to know that a 'wash' with Calendula Tea sets it right - generally within 24 - 48 hours, and that the hives do diminish until they no longer appear. And then I don't have any skin issues for months on end (again, that's if the pattern I have seen occur twice, occurs in the same way) ?

Would it be a "minor blood vessel" if the dog is bleeding from both nose AND mouth, Jed?

I've not struck this before, ever. Maybe because of that, I'd be highly alarmed if a dog began to bleed from the nose and the mouth and I would have expected it to take a good deal of stress and restraint for this to occur.

I might hold you to that offer, 2tollers . After the cat was seen dashing away from the partly eaten chicken wing, Mandela ate it (the remainder of the chicken wing, not the cat). I well know that some competition would be helpful. Oh!! I hope not!! Mandela has somewhat expensive food taste. Food (including the additives) is costing me between $120 and $150 per week for him alone, at the moment. . Not to mention that I 'feel' for him too, as I know that although he copes ok, he isn't comfortable inside his own skin and body at these bad times. Done . Thanks. We'll get there. The 'ordeal' lasted a month or so the last time. If it goes to pattern, we'll have 2-3 weeks more of it, then he'll go back to eating, then the new flushes of hives will become less and less in numbers until his skin is 'clean' again, and his coat will grow back. And as the months roll on, he'll put back on some weight and he'll just get to the point where I can finally *almost* think it is close to time when I might need to watch he doesn't put on too much weight (that'll be around 6-7 months, if I am lucky), and it will all occur over again, and I'll need to find yet again a different food type that he'll eat. That is IF it goes to the pattern I think is beginning to reveal. Only time will tell on that score. I've learnt some things about natural treatments through all of this though . And when he is feeling well, he's fun to train .

SnT ..... I don't think it is that. I've PM'd you with some catch up information as well. The Vets he has seen didn't think it was related to food or contact allergy either. But no, he hasn't actually had any intradermal skin tests. Thanks for the thought though. I won't reject it and will bear it in mind, but it just doesn't 'add up' (to me, or to the Vets/Naturopaths we have seen over the last 12 months, either).

You know, 2tollers? ..... I pretty much take all of this on the chin. I've had nothing other than health issues from day dot. After Kal and her maladies (bless her cotton socks, I still miss her) my boy was supposed to be well, healthy and allow me to be a bit more care free (and just concentrate on his training). Meh ..... so, he was somehow supposed to come to me. But I must admit I get tired from it at times, today being one of those. I spend so much time dotting around trying to get him to eat this or that or the other. He barely ate today. I included some vegemite in his dinner tonight (I have no idea if that's the right thing to do or not) just to try to get him to eat. It worked to a point. At least I got some food into him. But I don't plan on too much of the vegemite. And I get a bit cross too. As far as I'm aware, I've done everything right. Registered breeder; avoided chemicals; so on and so forth. And I know that in amongst all of this, I am at high risk of creating a fussy eater. But I'll deal with that little issue when I know he is well. At the moment, his skin looks diseased. But that's the least of it. My Vet has said there's nothing more that he can do for him. And just to top everything off, there's a neighbourhood cat hanging around and it invites itself in to eat Mandela's "left overs". I sprung it up on my kitchen bench a couple of weeks ago (I leave the back door open for Mandela to go in/out). It had tried for a munch of my bread rolls (I found the packet on the floor) and lordy knows what other foods I'd left to defrost on the bench. That was more food I had to throw out. Today Mandela left one of his chicken wings on the rear decking. I heard noise and went out to find the cat munching on it. I haven't yet been able to catch the cat - I want to attach a collar with a note to let its owners know what it is up to. <sigh> .... sorry, 2tollers, I think your little bit of sympathy opened the flood gates to a big fat whinge from me lol. ETA: And my house is as though a bomb's hit it. And I hate it. I think that's eating at me more than anything else. Mandela - well, he needs me. And I do what I do without too much lamenting. But the state of the house ..... it s$%ts me. .

Just to start her off, try food treating her simultaneous with saying "good dog" and patting her. Keep the food treat held in a position that encourages her to be in the sit position. When you've done that a few times (basically you are using the lure method to have her not roll over on her back), then do it without. When she rolls over, "ahah", encourage her up and pat her. More often than not it is about timing (ie how quickly you can put a pat in before she rolls over). You could also try doing this whilst on the move. It might be your eye contact that she is responding to. Try averting your gaze as you pat her. As for treats ..... Roo Jerky is good. And whatever amount of food you give by way of treats, measure that out by reducing the amount she receives in her bowl.

Yes, they are. Each knows what the other's products/ingredients are. There is no way I would 'medicate' (homeopathics or not) with additional additives unless I had confirmation that it was ok to do so. But it was a very valid question that you ask, Luvsdogs, and I in your shoes would have asked the same . ETA: Macka ..... I'm so sorry. Somehow I've hijacked this thread. I didn't mean to.

I think it is more about the soft plates in the bones. These don't harden until growing has stopped.