Erny

Got it now, as you know . Thanks Charli73.

at Eddie's face. Don't worry about jackets, SM! Bet you didn't think to practice for dragging prize ribbons across his back. . Lots of tug time for Eddie !!!

Should we tell? I would, but naaaah .... that's for SM to tell . But she better get her butt in here soon. But for her first time out she did very, very well.

Yes she did. And she deserves a hearty congratulations and a pat on her back (and one for her dog too ). I've been waiting for her to come on in and post on it.

At the risk of me becoming monotonous, here's another *bump*. ;) Petitions are coming in and I thank you for that. For those who know and understand the virtues of a PPCollar, I really need you to pass the link to the Petition/s (remember, there are two - one for Victorian residents' use, the other for those residing outside of Victoria) to as many people as you think would be interested and willing to help the cause outlined in this thread. Refer post #175 for the petition link. It's only a matter of a couple of clicks of a computer button and perhaps a conversation here and there with the people you know ;) . Please keep the momentum going and thanks for your efforts so far . Charli73 .... haven't received your submission yet . Although with Easter coming early this year if you're like me, it has thrown timing out of whack . To readers in general : I've been working on this for coming up to one year now. Time really is drawing to a close and NOW is the time to put acts into gear if you really believe in the worth of the PPCollar and wish to see Victorian regulation changed ................ regardless of whether you live here or not. in anticipation of a flood of emails and petitions .

Desensitise. Work in small increments. Mower off + distance Mower off, closing in distance. Mower on + lots of distance. Have your dog way, way away (off the property, if necessary .... but behind his threshold distance) when the mower is being started up. Mower on, closing in distance very gradually. Never push your dog to go in towards the mower. Allow him to progress at his own pace. Try feeding your dog in the presence of the mower (first, when it is off .... then progress to when it is on). Seek to work just on or a bit behind the threshold distance. Frequent exposure, but very gentle going is the key. DO NOT be in a hurry. Don't expect the end goal to be accomplished in one or two sessions. Don't even expect progress in every single session. Be happy to plateau and allow your dog to become accustomed to his improvements before seeking the next. Everything positive should occur in the presence of the mower (eg. a game of ball etc. etc.) Naturally, use common sense with what you do and when. Mowers are dangerous tools and a ball rolling under one could prove disasterous for a dog who is ball crazy.

I think all the issues you raise in your post have a basis in "leadership" or, more particularly, your new dog not recognising this in you or for that matter, anyone else. It is also possible that this dog (who might have a history of thinking himself 'leader') is trying to re-establish his perceived position in his new environment and amongst the presently unfamiliar people he is getting the opportunity to meet. This could be in part to do with what you are doing in your day to day interactions with your dog and/or in part to do with his history with his previous owners (eg. learnt behaviour). I trust you'll be back at Planet K9 for training and learning very shortly. Do they have people whom you are able to contact in between times? Do they have people who are able to come out to see you and your dog in its own habitat/environment? Refer to and follow the TOT program. It's pinned to the top of the "Training Forum" index page. Follow the NILIF program as well. This program is about your dog doing something before before he receives ANYTHING. And this includes pats; treats; meals; walks; play. In fact, anything the dog likes to do. There are more things you can do, but this depends on what your general interactions are and also on what guidelines you already apply to your dog and its interactions with you in the home environment on a day to day basis, as well as when you are out. What is recommended also depends on your relationship with this dog (as your dog perceives it) as some strategies can give rise to a challenge in certain dogs and circumstances, which is why there is reluctance by trainer/behaviourists to give advice to these over the internet without seeing or knowing your dog and the relationship you both share. Regular/frequent training dotted in amongst your regular walks is also excellent. I'd be keeping your dog on lead whilst out so that you are in a position to control and stop him from urinating on people. You can use a long-line if you wish to give him a bit more freedom than what he'd receive if on a standard length lead.

Borderstaff .... sorry. Just realised this is your thread and my conversation with SL seems to have hijacked it a little. I'm hoping that the discussions here provide you with some useful information.

Sorry SL .... it's just that you said your pup knows that it's wrong to soil inside the house. Given that he does soil inside the house, I wasn't sure what you did or why you think he knows it is wrong. It's also curious as to why he is copraphagic inside the house, but not out. Make sure he's in the same room with you whenever he is in the house. Some people have even tethered their pups to themselves using a longer lead, so they KNOW they will be able to catch the dog quickly and guide outside. Some pups/dogs can be quite fast I admit, but generally speaking there are some initial 'signs' they are about to go. For this, it is about trying to work out what those signs are, even if they are somewhat subtle. Have you thought of a board or a baby gate to which you attach a piece of marine ply (or something solid that will render it unpassable). The cat should be able to jump over. The pup I assume couldn't. As aforementioned, I'd get him checked by a Vet if this is happening so frequently.

I prefer to use neither and teach the pup straight off that soiling within the house is not desirable. Might be slightly more work in the short-term, but in the long-term I don't think so. But of course there are some who live "apartment style" where soiling outside is not an option. If this were the case I would prefer the training pads to newspaper. Unless I wanted my dog to understand that even the paper I was in the middle of reading on the floor depicts a toilet.

Yes - I have read of a number of cases "cured" by the addition of pineapple to the dog's diet. Many people think that the presence of the pineapple renders the faeces unattractive, therefore deterring the dog from ingesting its stools. In this though, I have my doubts as logic would dictate that it would render the original meal in which the pineapple was included, as being unattractive in the first place. Apparently "Bromelain", which is an enzyme capable of digesting protein, is found in pineapples. My thoughts are therefore that perhaps ingestion of pineapple has provided the enzyme necessary for a higher absorption of protein. If the dog was eating its faeces in an endeavour to self-supplement for insufficient protein source, the heightened ability to absorb protein from its usual diet because of the addition of pineapple may be the reason why it no longer seeks to self-supplement by ingesting faeces. If my thinking is on the right track (I'm not a nutritionist) then it goes to follow that the cause for the Copraphagia in this instance WAS dietary deficiency and perhaps an alternate/improved diet could have remedied the situation. This is something I would still give consideration to if it could be seen that the existing diet leaves room for improvement. I have no idea of what the acid affect from eating pineapple on a regular basis would do to the dog's digestive tract (if it would do anything at all) nor whether there are even any studies conducted to determine the possibility for adverse affects over a long term period.

Amongst other possibilities (eg dietary deficiency or boredom, to mention a couple) Copraphagia can be the result of poor house training - generally where owners growl or otherwise punish their dog for soiling inside the house. You are correct, SL, that dogs can then turn to eating their own excrement to be rid of it so that punishment is not received. Note that the dog does NOT associate it with the ACTION of having soiled. The dog sees that Owner + Dog + Excrement = Punishment to the dog. In these circumstances the dog will still soil, but will seek to remove the 3rd part of the equation that seems to be the catalyst for punishment. If your dog soils inside the house, give yourself a rap on the head for not being in a position to prevent it from happening and missing a further opportunity to train your dog with consistency. It is very normal for a dog to re-eat regurgitated or vomited meals. If this is occurring with any frequency what you need to work out is WHY is it being regurgitated or vomited. It could be the result of your dog gulping too quickly, eating too soon after aerobic exercise or it could be something else which would do well with a Veterinary check up. I'm not too concerned with re-eating after regurgitation, but I try to prevent dogs re-eating vomited material that has been retched from its stomach. Prevent it. Stop your dog from being able to gain access to your cat's litter. Baby gates are a good solution for this, or modify the door so that it remains open only to sufficiently to allow access by the cat and not the dog. If your dog is small and can access the room where the litter is kept even with these solutions, then use the baby gate idea but cover the gaps so the dog can not get through. Your cat should be able to jump over, but not your dog.

Sorry . "Leadership" - or should I say, lack of it, in my profession, is certainly far from common. (Although not to suggest that there aren't some who do it fine .) I guess I can't help being habitual in my emphasise of its necessity. I do that even when I don't know people on the other side of the computer ...... just in case. I can imagine it would get a little annoying when I'm already 'talking to the converted', so to speak. :D Thanks for the re-assurance though.

Good luck Peibe. I don't think I can offer more, from where I sit on the other end of cyber-space from you. But by the sounds all other things are ok and as they should be. Please don't discount his submissive nature towards you as not requiring to ID your leadership as he matures. Hope everything works out for the little guy. Wishing you luck in your endeavours.

They would only 'posture' if you have placed the crate where it encroaches their 'zone'. And if the pup did chose to back off he can't, because he's crated? Perhaps - but I can't be the one to recommend. It needs to be your judgment call - don't know that it would be mine if I were in your boots though. What if the pup pursues the issue with Zeph and an all out fight ensues? One or the other or both dogs may suffer injury be it physical or emotional. It might work, but that doesn't mean it is a "safe" solution.

I imagined it would have been fairly early. Food possession/aggression is normal amongst dogs and it does not go to follow that the dog who is food possessive/aggressive is necessarily exhibiting dominance to the other dog. Even the subordinate dog will guard food against the advances of an alpha dog within the pack. There is a 'space' zone and there seems to be a "possession is 9/10th's of the law" attitude/rule amongst 'balanced' dogs. The dog guarding its food will normally 'freeze' and posture over the prized food/bone, giving all the contextual cues to another dog breaching the 'zone' by way of warning to back away. I can only guess at this, but it is possible (likely?) that removal of the pups from the bitch at such an early age has precluded them from learning the 'appropriateness' of the application of this rule as well as the appropriateness of reaction to an encroachment unheeded by warning. I'm also guessing that this pup has learnt very early that aggression does achieve his goal and so is taking it to the extreme where a 'balanced' dog would either quit within reason or not give good cause to its occurrence. I know this does not give you your "solution", and when it comes to the presence of highly valued food as in this case there isn't likely to be a safe solution at all. But it might serve in part as a possible explanation to this pup's inappropriate and excessive behaviour. Generally, "prevention" is the only method used or that can be used with complete safety in these instances.

I've had an almost 100% success rate in settling crying pups utilising the "Canine Lullabies" CD. My own experiment with the use of this CD is limited though ..... only 4/4 at this stage. One of those 4 was a slightly older pup with chronic crying issues (and where the owner had tried just about everything - even under the direction of a trainer/behaviourist), and the last I heard was that it had "improved" the situation almost instantly. I haven't heard of further progress for this pup since that first report, so unsure at this stage if the problem continues or whether it has further abated. If it has, then the success strike rate is 100% (ie 4/4). Not many, I know. But IMO worth trying for the price (1 CD for $15.95US or 2 CDs for $24.95US, plus postage). The Canine Lullabies CD can be purchased on-line from CANINE LULLABIES. This is assuming that your pup has not already begun to settle down. Also, ensuring that puppy is mentally fatigued by the introduction of basic (gentle) training as well as 'puzzle solving' type activities and sensible socialisation* experiences may assist in pup being tired enough to be happy to slumber more easily. *Socialisation includes not only learning appropriate interaction with other dogs and people, but also to all the other worldly 'things' we generally take for granted. Eg. Different noises; different surfaces; moving traffic; etc. etc. Socialisation is not about thrusting your pup in the midst of things straight up .... it's a matter of gentle untraumatic and positive introduction to these things, slowly but frequently and regularly. Use commonsense where you chose to venture for these socialisation experiences. For example, taking pup to the local park where umpteen unknown dogs of all manner frequent, especially until your pup has been vaccinated sufficiently to have the anti-bodies necessary to either prevent or reduce likelihood of contracting disease. ETA : Ensure that the laundry where your pup sleeps is draft free and cosey. ETA : Hope you are all managing to enjoy a Happy Easter together. Final ETA : You've received some excellent 'tips' here. Particularly about going to puppy school so that YOU can learn undistracted, and then bringing your learnings home and applying it to your children over time. Also about teaching your pup independence in small increments at a time by leaving for very very short moments (teaches the pup it is ok to be alone) and gradually building up until pup is ok to be left for the periods required to suit your general lifestyle commitments. It can be daunting for a pup. One minute pup has a whole bunch of his litter mates to play and sleep with and then whooooop, he's sleeping on his own in a completely new environment with no one he is familiar with. Pretty scarey, I'd imagine. So we need to make things as 'nice' and as secure as we can for pup, but simultaneously avoid inadvertently reinforcing the very behaviour we would prefer not to occur.

Peibe - Would you happen to know how young the pups were when they were taken from the bitch? Edited for improved grammar .

Although this is not necessarily going to be the case if 'fear' is the cause for the aggression. Definitely agree with the leadership being important though. Consultation with a trainer/behaviourist might be the better way to go ..... expert observation is invaluable and often crutial.

Thank you I've been getting some more responses from people recently and the extra contributions are very much greatfully received and added to the main submission. :D

You betcha it would.

You have a 3yo child as well as a baby pup. Your job is to be a leader to both and to protect both. I would be controlling the pup around your 3yo child so that the pup doesn't get the opportunity to jump on your 3yo child. Allow confidence from your 3yo to develop calmly, rather than getting her to handle a situation on her own (which from what you've written I'm assuming is what is happening). Just as you would want to teach your 3yo the guidelines of life (eg. manners; respect; family and household rules; etc.) so you should also teach your puppy guidelines of life. You need to do so in ways that your child understands, and similarly you need to do so in ways your pup will understand. Even though you would 'show' your child to help her learn, she has the advantage in that she can understand your language and this helps in her learning. Your pup can't, so you need to "show" rather than assume your pup understands your words. Tone of voice coupled with this guidance is what will help your pup. Above all, consistency - something that many people know about but do not apply. Going to a reputable puppy school (ie with instructors who are proven to know what they are about when it comes to pups and dog psych) would stand you in good stead. It sounds to me as though you were somewhat unprepared for the entry of this pup to your home and a good puppy school will bring you up to speed faster than being solely reliant upon tips over the internet. Not to suggest there aren't and won't be a lot of good tips given here, but IMO nothing beats seeing AND doing under the watchful eye of a good coach, who can also give you explanation along the way. Do you think you would be able to enrole and attend a puppy school? If you let us know where you are located, we could perhaps offer some recommendations.

Congratulations, Arya and Tess. Well done for your perserverance.

The next four weeks or so will almost be the last before the "main submission" is all but complete. If you want to see the current Vic Regulation changed to permit 'restricted' use of PPCollars, now's the time to be a part of helping this endeavour. Would be a shame if the only thing that precluded the submission from being accepted and passed was 'lack of interested numbers'. If you haven't made a submission yet, it would be most welcome now. The submission will weigh more heavily but at the very least, a petition signed (even just one signature to the sheet) is another plus. For the petition please refer to post # 175. Be sure to print out the petition that is appropriate to you. :D Submissions can be emailed to [email protected] The petition with original signature needs to be forwarded by snail mail as per instructions at the foot of the form. Thanks to those who have made a contribution. Don't forget - you can still sign the petition even though you've made a submission. ;) Erny

Hi Adele - by the sounds of it you're getting most of your pup's toilet training right. Except for one thing - that is that you need to learn to identify your pup's unique's signs that it appears to need to go to the toilet. Sniffing, circling - these can be some of the typical signs, but each dog is a bit different to the next. If you're vigilent, you'll get to learn these signs. It is at the first of these signs that you need to be on your toes to act quickly and encourage your pup out the door via the route you have learnt. To be able to watch your pup to learn these signs, and to avoid you pup learning a habit you DON'T want in the meantime, you of course need to be able to keep your pup in sight. So block access to rooms and have pup where you can be on the watch. Continue with the "toilet word" and praise once your pup has gone to the toilet in the appropriate place, as you have been. And continue to take pup out at the 'prime times' for toileting (after sleep; after play; after meals; after it's been a while since the last toilet stop) as you have been. If you're vigilant with watching, it shouldn't take too long. I like to recommend people DO NOT think that toilet training is completed until the pup/dog has gone for at least 4 full weeks without an accident inside (without intervention from the owners). But even then, it's not a matter of completely taking it for granted ...... you wean off your attentions to vigilence bit by bit, until you can know you can trust your pup's toilet training skills. Good luck - and in the meantime, enjoy your puppy and all the trials and tribulations in training that you journey with her! :D