Erny

I saw Simba today. He's very handsome . Sorry for the hi-jack .............

Have you sorted out the cause of the barking, assuming barking is the dog's issue? If you're anxious, me simply giving you a whack on the arm isn't likely to make you feel any less anxious. If there is an emotional basis for your dog's barking - if excessive barking really exists in this instance - you'll need to factor in a plan to reduce the emotionality. Even if you use the collar and even if it doesn't make the barking worse, you might find the emotionality component drives the dog to other undesirable behaviours. It's your call .... but have a word to your instructor at Planet K9. She's seen your dog and would have an understanding of your dog's temperament and anti-bark suitability, and assuming she's a trainer/behaviourist, should be able to give you advice and suitable program to follow. Good idea re the listening via your computer. Clever. I wouldn't have a clue how to rig that up! I'm a computer clutz. :D

"Spoilt" in such a way as to (albeit unintentionally) mix signals so that the dog does not perceive your leadership? Absence of perception by the dog of leadership in the handler means the dog believes it is not only his/her right to guard/protect/manage in whichever way dog sees fit, but also its duty. Good for you for adopting a dog in need of a home. I'm sure she is a cuty and one that would easily win hearts. This in itself often makes us humans 'pushovers' for not exhibiting behaviour that would depict a higher hierarchy status. It is so easy to melt into a pair of big chocolatey eyes and disintegrate into 'whatever you want I shall give' mode without even being conscious that we are doing this. :wink: Don't know if that's the case here, but food for thought and reflection. :D

I think the success rate for 'spray' type collars is about 60 or 65%. It depends on the dog and how ingrained the unwanted behaviour is. I don't like Citronella collars. Citronella is toxic and some dogs are known to have had a bad reaction to them. In addition and from a training perspective, just as important, the smell of the spray remains on the dog even after the unwanted behaviour has ceased. In this style of collar, my preference is the JetCare "shot of cold air" system. However, the success rate given above should be noted. What behaviour are you trying to treat, ToTheMax? If it is barking, then you want the collar as an anti-bark? Is it in the context as you've described in your other thread Advice For A Dog With Special Habits ..... IE : If that's the case, I wouldn't prescribe an anti-bark collar for that purpose. If it is for 'other' purpose, have you worked with your instructor to determine cause? This is important before you consider treatment method.

If you're not certain yourself, I'd suggest you arrange a consultation with a trainer/behaviourist to first determine the underlying cause of the vocalisation. Until it is known whether it definitely relates to excitement; fear; or other, it isn't possible for someone to be able to even hint at a technique to assist without running the risk that the suggestion might make matters worse. Where are you located? If this is known a reputable trainer/behaviourist in your area might be able to be recommended. :rolleyes: If it is possible that 'fear' is a component of your dog's reactions, I don't recommend the taking of advice over the net from people who have not had the privilege and advantage of observing your dog in any case, as a program to work through those issues needs to be structured to suit your dog (threshold distances; level of anxiety; etc). The program doesn't need to be complicated - just suited to your dog and its progression. Being at a coffee shop environment can be very confrontational to a dog if the dog is uncomfortable. They often feel 'trapped' in these situations and other dog numbers can prove too much pressure to be able to expect what we might describe as 'good' behaviour as well. If it isn't fear, and does prove to merely be excitement, then training in obedience is what your dog would benefit by. The obedience skills learnt then progress to being gradually proofed in an environment where there are other dogs but where 'distance' is still an option. This, before then expecting the dog to be able to calmly comply and behave in a coffee shop environment. Having the company of a couple of 'familiar' dogs doesn't constitute being able to be comfortable/confident in the presence of 'unfamiliar' dogs. As to the latter, much depends on the amount of early (ie critical period - 8 to 16 weeks, and then beyond) socialisation she received.

I read the 'apology' part as not intended by the OP to be taken literally. I see it as a way of showing pup that "now we want calm" behaviour. An 'off' switch, if you will. It seems a couple of people have interpreted differently?

Oh - so you're their "motivator" ? :D No worries ............ whatever it takes :D

Erny Chortles ...... Well, I didn't compile all those comments in my mind. BUT ..... you guys are getting out there and DOING it - that's got to be a step up in the 'confidence' stakes.

Good to see and hear the abundance of confidence and enthusiasm Well done guys, and good luck for the Croydon trial Erny

If it is all "play" then I don't have a problem with it. By the sounds of it you're doing the right things by finishing play on your terms and it's not as if puppy thinks all play is about this nor getting over the top. Provided your dog learns to understand there must be an "off switch", that there are 'boundaries' to this interaction (eg. no biting of skin .... even accidentally) and that it can only be started by you, it should be ok. Pups do a lot of learning through "play". But it is the outcome that counts. I used to do little 'play fights' with my (adult) RR when she was still with me. There was a bit of vocalisation in that too ( from both of us, I might add). Naught of it was in any way her challenging me nor rising to a challenge. But as far as her perception of me as being higher in the hierarchy stakes were concerned, there were definitely no issues there. There are some people with some dogs whom I don't recommend this. One example is where the dog is already too boisterous and rough and where there are children added to the equation. But this example is one where the dog was never taught that "off switch" or that the game contained boundaries. Am I becoming predictable? :p Edited to add some words. :D

;) Great news that you've made headway! Just a cautionary note though ..... the rule of thumb is that if there are not accidents inside for 4 weeks you can begin thinking housetraining is completed, but relax only slightly .... bit by bit, in the time following that period. Remain watchful and do things such as not yet allowing your pup access to the whole house where you can't be vigilant, but allow your trust in your pup's learning to gradually build.

Provided the cats would prefer to stay away, then that's what I'd let them do for the time being. Make sure there is a place they can go to where your puppy can't, so they can escape the pup's attentions. They might be becoming more aggro as a result of being 'forced' to be social with the pup and being held would make them feel as though they are trapped. If the cats are around when the puppy is, that might be a good time to offer your cats a tasty treat. But again - avoid forcing the situation. Going by the experience of friends of mine (I don't own cats), cats don't much appreciate pups because at that age, pups act spasmodically and sometimes a little bit too full on for them to be able to understand and be comfortable. Just leave it alone and use the time to teach your puppy to come away from the cats if it appears they are bothered by him.

Whoops! Just re-read and caught this last bit. IMO, you'd do well to get some one-on-one help if you haven't already. You want to nip (no pun intended) this one in the bud. I expect she figured out she was about to lose whatever it was that was being taken from her. It's natural behaviour for a dog, but completely unacceptable all the same. A good trainer/behaviourist will be able to go through all facets of the dog psych with you, giving you an understanding of how your dogs are thinking and why, as well as a plan to work on so that this type of behaviour is not further elicited.

A big dog needs to learn how to appropriately play with a smaller, less robust dog. Just as you might teach a child to be gentle with a baby. I would recommend that you get someone out to either confirm or deny your interpretation of your dogs' behaviours amongst each other. If aggression is apparent there is no mucking around with that as unless you know what to do and when to do it, aggression generally has a habit of escalating until one day there are tears. And what you see as being "dominant" may not necessarily be the case. Take some video footage of the dogs in the act of this activity, if you can. Typically, the dogs might not be sufficiently co-operative to exhibit the behaviour whilst the trainer/behaviourist is there. I've seen some dogs have a wow of a time wrestling and playing rough, with all the play growls and play-act facial expressions that go along with that. It is a matter of looking at the big picture, not simply dissecting one signal or part of the dog's body language to properly gauge intent. I'd hate to say 'separate' the dogs if in fact they are having a good game and neither was feeling the slightest bit intimidated by the other or liable to injury. But similarly, one needs to know and understand that even if it is a 'game', this is how younger dogs explore and practice at 'flexing their muscles', learning along the way the mannerisms that depict and assert a higher hierarchy status. It is when two dogs each desire and believe in their worth as 'top dog' that hierarchy issues become problematic, if not injurious. Remember that you should be perceived by the dogs as their overall leader - as such it is certainly your responsibility to protect them from harm. If you don't, they won't see you as being capable and so will do as they see fit to protect themselves and I'd suggest this is the case for the little one. Also, as Leader, you would have the respect necessary to be able to stop play when you recognise it as becoming too boisterous. When you think about it, this is what we do with kids when we see play getting too over the top.

Sorry, but ............................... *bump*

Hi everyone This is another ad nauseam albeit unashamed *bump* for this thread. These last 8 weeks are really, really crucial to the plight and plea to Government for the change in regulation. The more submissions and the more petition responses the better - NOW is the time to respond, if you were ever thinking of doing so. Please don't be complacent. It needs YOU to get it over the line :p. So much work has gone into the submission already, and the information that has been found in relation to the grave error that has been made here in Victoria to ban the use of the PPCollar leaves me a bit speechless (bet you never thought THAT would be possible :D). It only serves to strengthen my resolve towards throwing in every effort to making the over-all submission as convincing as is possible. But I need you. I need you ALL. It is the ALL OF YOU that will make the difference. If anyone has thought to compile a submission supporting the request for change of regulation but is concerned about how to word it - don't worry. It can simply be addressed to "WHOM IT MAY CONCERN" and does not have to present with any fancy dog training jargon or terms. Just your own words - that's the best. What you think, what you've seen, what you've experienced (in terms of how much improvement has been able to have been achieved with the use of the PPCollar). Naturally, Victorian residents can only re-count for what they've seen in the past, given that they have not been allowed to use the PPCollar since the inception of the ban in 2004. However, stories (factual of course) of perhaps what you've seen and how much better the dog might have faired had the PPCollar been permitted for use, is still relevant. You only need to email your submissions to [email protected] If it really doesn't make sense, I'll write back to you and ask you what you mean . I'm sure there are more people out there with comments and thoughts of their own. They don't have to be dog trainers - professional or otherwise. After all - you are ALL voters. You all have a right to contribute towards something you believe is right. Erny steps down off the soap-box yet again ...... but not for the last time

Yes Trish ..... well done! It was great to see you again and also to meet with and hear Steve again. As usual, you had everything running to plan and well arranged . Thanks for organising it.

I don't recall that as being me (as much as I'd like to take credit for making a lot of sense ). In effect, what you have been doing is feeding them separately - the difference is that you are creating an invisible barrier merely by your presence. In some cases, a more tangible barrier is required in the name of safety for each dog. In other cases, feeding each in a (eg) separate room (with doors open) is 'separate' enough. The latter is what I always have done when another dog has come to 'visit'. But I'm not very far away to create the remaining invisible barrier preventing each from entering the other's 'room' until feeding has finished. When I have been engaged to 'mind' others' dogs (ie going to their place to feed) I have always hung around while their dogs ate, again creating that 'invisible barrier' (regardless of whether people have told me the dogs are fine in these circumstances or not). IMO, these are all varying degrees of 'feeding separately'.

Agree with Cramet. Merely stopping doesn't much (if at all) alter the dog's focus from where it wants to go. Food isn't always necessary either - the promise of a "good dog", a pat and a two-way eye exchange can and often is sufficient for many dogs. Having pack drive and the respect that comes from a foundation of good leadership helps a lot too.

Hi PaulP. It very much sounds as if your dog is not perceiving your hierarchy status as where we would prefer it to be. This can be surprising to some, who think that what they've been doing is of 'leadership material'. But often it is the more obtuse things that we do - more often unintentionally - that give our dogs the opposite impression to what we intend. Be careful. Your dog has given you a warning (ie growl). Unless you know what you're doing, pushing beyond that can escalate to a bite. This is not to say your dog is being nasty. It's just the way dogs have to manage if they think a subordinate is not observing the rules of the pack. But it can be dangerous all the same. You definitely need to be calm and assertive, but it's about what you do and how you do this that can make the difference between your dog accepting your higher hierarchy status -vs- rising to the challenge you set. I'm not suggesting they are insufficient, but given I can't know through observation your relationship with your dog, perhaps the household rules need adjusting? Your dog would have left the 'puppy' phase at around 6 months and from there has been gradually entering and developing through and into adolescence. At 14 months of age he's very much a young adult - one who would have by now some pre-conceived idea of where he fits within the pack. It is around this age that symptoms of the dog's perception of its hierarchy status and position within the pack often begin to become obvious. It's not about a sudden change, but how the dog has been developing its notions of your position in the pack from when he was a puppy and through all of the stages of development to now. This can be established through everything you do and in every way you interact with your dog, including play times; feed times; exercise times; training times ..... it all counts. If we've been adjusting to accord with our dogs throughout the puppy to adult development, behaviour problems are less likely to become serious. But when we see or hear those early warning signals, it really is time to sit up and take note. Each habit, once practiced, becomes a 'learnt' behaviour. How learnt that behaviour is depends on how often the dog has managed to practice it. Perhaps matters are not as serious or as grave as I might be imagining? That doesn't matter. When ANY sign of aggression is described as having been exhibited - especially (but not exclusively) towards the owner, I always regard it as a matter worthy of some very careful and serious consideration and attention. Practicing "TOT" and also applying the NILIF ("Nothing In Life Is Free") program will certainly do no harm and may be sufficient to make all the difference. On the other hand, you might need more strategies/techniques than this but to advise them over the internet without a deeper understanding (which comes with observation) of the relationship you both share, is not recommended. If you're not sure, then engaging some professional help and advice would be highly recommended.

I didn't know Dianne ..... only in passing with words across cyberspace. The regard and sadness here at her passing is telling of her standing within the community who were obviously better for her acquaintance. RIP Dianne. Run free with dogs who once knew you and would be waiting patiently to guide you and rejoice your presence in that other world. Tony - nor do I know you or you me. But I pass to you my condolences at your untimely and sudden loss. May you find comfort in the spirit within the dogs she leaves behind for you to share company with.

Yes! And reward your dog's obedience skill compliance with some drive work with an item that you control (eg. tug toy/ball). And remember that Rome was not built in a day. One session at a time and be happy with your dog's non-responses to the skate board and responses to obedience commands. Avoid trying to work up too far too fast.

FIRST you need to work out what the cause of the barking is. This is important as without knowing or understanding the cause, you could apply treatment methods that could in fact render the problem worse. For example, you've mentioned the dog is used to being with someone 24/7. All of a sudden, the dog is not with someone 24/7. So, there is room for the possibility that the dog is feeling anxious at being without someone there. Applying treatment methods such as anti-bark collars or other aversives is unlikely to reduce the dog's anxiety .... in fact, it can produce the opposite result. Another example - perhaps the dog's barking behaviour is the result of attention seeking without the presence of dependance anxiety. If the dog barks and you look or speak to the dog, even if only to verbally reprimand it, the dog has received attention and its goal is (at least partially) met. This would cause the dog to keep trying - for some dogs any attention (good or bad) is better than no attention. The same or similar could apply if the cause is boredom. If you only treat the symptom and not the cause, you could find the 'cause' manifesting and producing more or other undesirable behaviours. So you can see from here that it is quite necessary to work out what the cause is before you try the application of some of the aversives mentioned here. Regardless of cause and treatment, leadership (ie yours) is always an essential. :rolleyes:

That depends on whether your dog perceives the mower as something which it fears, or something that excites him and thinks it's a game. But with this in mind, I'd be inclined to work a bit differently given the outward reaction is different. Obedience training would help in your case, and perhaps training him to (eg) go to his mat instead of going to the mower would be a step in the right direction. If fear is involved, then desensitisation combined with this suggestion would be the way to go.

Wouldn't know as I know nothing of the dog. Could be Inadvertent reinforcement The result of inadvertent "flooding" Learnt behaviour (I act scared, I survived, if I act scared I will survive) To name just a few things.