Erny

There are numerous things you can do for each of these. What you need to look for is what methods (there needn't be only one - randomisation can be beneficial) actually appear to be decreasing the behaviour. I don't know how old your "puppy" is (I notice that some people refer to their dogs as puppies when they are actually adolescent age) but assuming she is very young remember that your puppy is exploring - continuously trying out what works for her, so persistency and consistency is the key. Pups will continue to explore in other ways when they find one way didn't work for them (and they'll likely come back a few times to try it out, until they recognise by pattern that it doesn't work), which is why it is good to have different ways of responding to each. You want to use methods that whilst not traumatising to the pup, teach your pup that exhibiting those behaviours are not in her best interests ..... are not 'fun' and do not achieve whatever her goals are. The methods you use also need to be methods you can manage either at all, or dependant on what your situation is at the time. The best way of learning methods is to see how they are done. The amount of firmness you use cannot be well explained over the net, as this depends on how your pup responds to them. Hence, going to a dog/puppy school run by instructors who have a good base knowledge of pups and pup behaviour/psychology, is the best way to go. There's : "NO" Stopping play Distraction (pause) and re-direct to suitable chew items Scruffing (I usually hold each side of the cheek, and firmly say "NO") Sin-bin ...... only to name a few. Of course also there's the (important) element of reward - but this must be given timely to ensure you're not inadvertently rewarding undesireable behaviour. The intensity with which you apply these things, as I mentioned above, depends on the individual pup and its age - which is why it's easier to be shown, as the pup's reactions can be observed at the time. You refer to "growling" as well - this is most likely a play growl but on rare occasions is possible that it's not. Observation by an instructor/trainer/behaviourist would answer this also. Above all, you need to be instilling information that she will compute to your heirarchy status - this involves setting boundaries and guidelines in your general day-to-day life together. All her "exploring" with you as to what she can do and what your responses are will go towards her perception, one way or the other. Do you go to puppy or dog school, Pennyw74? If not, please let us know your location and perhaps we can make some recommendations to help you. ETA: Going by your avatar, your girl is a Cavvy and about 8 weeks old ?????

I see what you're saying Am ..... and what I say is merely my view but when a dog recognises the control you have of prey drive satisfaction, it leads to leadership (eg respect; regard) which in turn leads to (assuming absence) or can enhance pack drive. I'm not skilled at wording up on these topics and perhaps I'm wrong - I'd be interested in Denis' and K9 Force's views alike.

Not all dog schools provide instructors who are able to help with behaviour issues or behaviour issues occurring at home. Great if they do, but check with them. Obedience (ie sit; drop; heel; etc.) and socialisation - both of which, taught properly, are great but are not necessarily going to fix the problems you've expressed in your other thread. Shame your school had to cancel for 4 weeks due to rain. That's a big slug out of a very important development period for your pup. For Queensland - I've read of a number of people singing praises for Jane Harper's training/behaviourist skills. If you PM me Incredijack, I'll send you what I know of as her contact details, if you'd like them.

Hi Am Can I pop in here with a thought, even though I know your question is directed to Denis? Don't forget that with prey drive training, ideally we are teaching the dog that YOU own and control drive satisfaction, which comes back to pack drive.

Hi PF Long time no see! You're right ..... it is always good to check on the physical/medical side of things. If something is amiss there, behaviour problem solving is going to be difficult and unneccessarily protracted, if successful at all.

AthenaGSD ..... when it comes to biting, it is not wise for anyone to give you advice as to what you might try or do. No-one on the otherside of cyberspace knows your dog, you or your relationship with the dog, even though it sounds as if you've come a long way with the dog in improving its behaviours . I would suggest you engage services from someone qualified to come out and visit you. It might be something from the dog's history that provokes reaction when touched/handled in certain ways and these will quite possibly be able to be overcome, but a behaviourist/trainer will be able to more properly observe the dog's body language to ascertain likely reactions - and work to not only avoid them, but desensitise him to them. Your leadership status will (or should) also automatically be checked/assessed at the same time and if there's any room for adjustments to be made, they should be suggested. Good on you for working with this dog to rehabilitate but I agree with you that this recent behaviour needs to be addressed, and addressed in a way that will not provoke the dog to escalate the behaviour - for primarily your sake, but also very importantly for the dog's sake.

How old is your puppy? Check chains shouldn't be used on a pup younger than 16 weeks old and even then it may not be necessary or appropriate. IMO, behaviours such as barking, digging and biting don't get fixed at a boarding type arrangement. These behaviours start in the home environment amongst the family it knows, and should be dealt with amongst the family it knows. This involves YOU being educated on what to do to enhance your leadership; what it might be that YOU are doing which might be enhancing these behaviours; what YOU can do to help teach your pup these behaviours are not desired; and teach YOU to teach your pup what behaviours are preferred. Sending a dog to boarding for these things IMO is like sending kids to school expecting teachers to do the parenting. Your pup might well learn not to bite (I presume you mean "mouthing") at the boarding place, but it doesn't mean the respect it learns there is going to automatically transfer to you. To me it sounds as though you'd be better off with someone coming to your home and showing you the way. ETA: Who said the check chain should be used to "pull until they yelp"?

Does he perceive you as leader? The "leader" has the responsibility of protecting the pack. If the dog perceives itself as leader, anxiety can rise when the 'pack' leaves as the dog is precluded from being able to fulfill this instinctive role. In addition, soiling inside could be his way of re-affirming his heirarchy status, which might have become insecure with the changes of environment. In turn, it can become a learnt behaviour encouraged as a result of the scent left behind in the soiled areas. ETA: What was he like at your brother's house, when he stayed there?

It's a Dobe, Rom. And from memory, not training equipment on. Went to go back to check but PC froze up and haven't re-tried yet. But yes ..... where there is positive reward there is negative punishment. I'm not sure if that's what Denis seeks by way of answer. ETA: As to whether the dog perceives being called off the ball as a punishment ..... that would in part depend on its pack drive as well.

I presume us with 'commercial' interests in dog training can now respond? I think Amhailte is on the right track. The exercise you've shown in the video appears to be the result of your training. What's not been explained or shown is what action would be the result in the event your dog did not respond as required/commanded. As it stands though, I see the exercise as "reward based" .... you respond to command and you will receive reward (ie the ball/drive satisfaction). But I'll go back and look through it a second time ................ .

Steve's not old enough yet, is he? Hope he doesn't take offence ..... just in jest, Steve Where he can't see you. Do you really have no choice other than to go outside? Mind you ..... I'm not convinced of this method. Just something 'benign' for you to try and something I know is not likely to present a challenge. If he's wanting your attention, this will at least give him the opposite and will mean you are safe from him escalating to mouthing. Of course, if his goal is he wants to send you to the sin-bin, then it won't work at all! . But seriously - if you are going to try this, it needs to be done quickly. IE Don't wait for the behaviour to worsen before you abruptly leave. Do it at the first sign (eg pawing). And do it each and every time. If it is going to work, you should begin to see improved results after a few to several repetitions. ETA: The thing about putting him outside is that it is not an "exclusionary" sin-bin. Some dogs hate it and it does prove to be a sufficient punishment. But some dogs are ok with it and may even not mind it. An "exclusionary" sin-bin is where there is no enjoyment to be had from the environment. I have suggested the toilet (close the lid; remove the toilet roll) for this purpose when it's been necessary .................. but me thinks it would be a bit crowded in there for your boy, even if I were to suggest it! Sin-binning can be good for some dogs and for some behaviours, but the tricky part is the dog understanding exactly what behaviour got him there in the first place. ETA: Although I appreciate that it seems to have helped TSD, I'm not a fan of using the crate for a punishment, unless of course you don't plan on using the crate for any other purpose.

Really difficult to tell you what you should do, over the net. Numerous strategies are possible, but hesitancy to "advise" over the net is only because without knowing the dog in any way, it is impossible to assess whether this dog is likely to rise to the challenge of your strategy, or not. Presuming there is no risk of injury to you or your OH, I'd probably be inclined to give the dog a swift physical correction - especially since this has been going on for a while, as you say, and he's not heeding any of the more subtle 'corrections' you've been applying. But please heed my warning in the second para above. Another possibility might be that you guys both quickly leave the room and shut the door behind you, leaving your dog there for a time. This can be incredibly inconvenient though (especially if it's the computer room and would deny you being on DOL ). But it would be an easier way of denying him ANY attention as the result of having to put him out. I'd be doing more than just NILIF too. Apply TOT and make sure that the things you do for him are on your terms and that he can't perceive them to be on his. This includes walks, car rides, play and anything else he enjoys. Seeing as this has been going on for a while, and if you're not sure of his responses to other strategies and whether you can handle them (as it stands, this would have to be your judgement), I'd recommend you get someone out there to have a look and advise.

If his goal is to get your attention and interact with him, even if only to put him outside, then perhaps this is feeding his behaviour?

Extinction burst is happening there. Very important that the increased behaviour does not achieve your boy's behaviour (your dog's behaviour that is .... not your OH's). I'd say your dog is still exploring and testing boundaries and heirarchy status .... working out in HIS opinion, where he 'fits' in.

Hi Denis ..... I'll come back to this when I can. :D Sorry - have been a bit stretched for time of late. Don't know if you can wait for me before you want to 'move on' from this? Erny

Have responded to you by direct email Kayla1.

Our "Take the GuessWork Out" Victorian Tour is expected to soon to go public (ie newspapers). "Dog-placements" for the Saturday and Sunday workshops are almost (if not already) full, but there is still room for a few more "People-placements" . If you wish to reserve your places for these days, now is the time to do so. We have arranged it so there is more capacity for the Friday night seminar, so this has a bit more breathing space than the weekend workshop spots, but all the same we do expect this to fill up reasonably quickly once the event is publicised. We've had great responses - thanks everyone :D. Those who have reserved their tickets will be receiving an email in the not too distant future to inform them of payment requirements etc.

Below is the link to PPCollar "blog space" relating to Petition Forms and Vic Govt Petition rules. http://doglaws.blogspot.com/ Please have a look and print out the Petition form that is relavent to your residency. Please read the "instructions" first, as the Vic Govt will easily dismiss the petition if their petition rules are not observed. And, once last "please" ..... Please send the PPCollar Blog Spot to anyone you know who would also be interested and willing to help by signing the Petition and posting as per Instruction Page (2nd post on blog). I'm reliant on getting this around as much as possible. Cheers! Erny ETA: Even if you have already provided an individual submission to support this campaign (which submission does weigh more than a petition signature), your signature to the petition will still count. Of course, I'm hoping that I can obtain many more signatures to the petition than I already have in individual submissions. It will all add up to help.

Comparing a horse to a dog (or vice versa) is IMO one of the worst mistakes - both by the manufacturing companies of the various brand head-collars, and then by those who believe in what is written in that respect without question. A horse's anatomy is different to a dog's, for starters. Different shape and larger neck. Longer head. Consider also the angle of a dog lead to owner's hand compared to the angle of a horse lead to owner's hand. Consider also the angle of the horse's head (in relationship to its neck) compared with that of a dog's. Imagine each individual animal in the same scenario ..... lunging forward and connecting suddenly with the end of the lead. You can try it on yourself (by simply grabbing your head with your hands as if they were some form of head restraint) ..... but I'd warn you to be very very careful when you try the 'dog scenario'. It would be an upward and backward action. Do it slowly - you'll still be able to get the feel of how easy damage to the dog's neck can occur. The halters for dogs are designed to fit differently as well. Loose on a horse. Not so for the dog. And the noseband on a dog is very close to the dog's eyes - even a well fitted head collar can and often does angle upwards against the dog's eye-socket when restraint it made against the resisting dog. Not so with a horse, where the nose band is way below the eye area. Some dogs 'shut-down' (and I mean emotionally .... to a point where 'learning' is not possible) when a head collar is fitted on. I have never seen this occur when a halter has been fitted to a horse - regardless of whether it has been conditioned to the halter or not. You might not have come across a horse with a neck strain or injury from a halter. But that's irrelevant. The question, here, given that you're questioning "why not a dog?" should be "what evidence of injury from a head collar on a dog". I can come up with a number ...... and I'm NOT a vet nurse! I agree with this .... but as with anything, consider the potential dangers to the animal and be aware of them. Know HOW and WHY. RB ..... I have seen dogs who run away from their leads and flat collars too. Also, veering away from effective training tools isn't ALWAYS a sign of 'fear' or 'grave dislike as a result of the feel' of the tool ..... It can be (not saying in your case) a matter of the dog avoiding being put in a position where heirarchy is not as IT perceives it should be.

Mark Singer is in South Australia and he's posted numerous well-written, informative and knowledgeable posts both here and elsewhere. I've only heard good things about Mark's training and I've enjoyed my communications with him. Email address for Mark is : [email protected]

If it is as it sounds then yes, this could very well be something that's already in place and could be used for the purposes I've mentioned. Do most clubs run a "sweepstakes" class at most events?

I think that's a great idea DD. With the "run through" ring - is that just a practice ring? This is different to when people are actually being "judged" (whether points apply or not). I know this from horse event comp days. Can be as calm as all get-out in the practice ring ..... but enter under the watchful eye of a judge and it can be a completely different kettle of fish. And of course our nerves often do affect our dogs' performances.

Dogdude - I hear your points too. But to a degree it does allow people the opportunity to 'generalise' their dog's training to the environment of a competition ring. Also, people may well have trained their dog to off-lead stage but their own "early days competition" nerves can affect that. The CCD is an opportunity there too, to accustom (to a degree) the handler. I've been a big advocate of having a ring for 'training' purposes. Eg. A ring where the handler/dog is judged and they have to go through all the required motions (but where no formal points or passes are gained), but where they are permitted to be in control of their dog so that errors can be trained and proofed against. This would help avoid the "ring-wise" dog. Whilst a "titled" ring isn't what I had in mind, it is part way there, although for the purpose of what I have in mind I think long-lines should be permitted in the stay work. The CCD "on-lead" component is an opportunity to 'generalise' the dog's training to the competition environment.

Pressure Point Collars (aka prong collars) are very good for people with physical 'limitations' as well as good for dogs in terms of less risk in damage to muscle and skeletal structure. Pity their use is banned in Victoria.

The leverage issues (ie potential damage to the dog's neck) is still there I believe. Except that the leverage angle is changed. Much would depend on how you adjust the neck strap in correllation to the nose strap.