asal

20 hours ago, persephone said:

Interesting supposition Mind You - Donut could have heard the School Bus from a great distance , maybe ? 

suspect that's more likely, as I bet it NEVER arrived exactly the same time each day. it couldn't have.  to many variables to influence its departure and travel times

3 hours ago, Rebanne said:

Most breeders I know, me included start off with a "pink slushie" which is puppy milk and raw mince. If you go the tin food route don't just buy the pal puppy food. There is a better food for them, the name eludes me at the moment. If you go to one of the bigger pet shops they should have it in stock. It's a mousse type food.

too true, I used to sing my own version of "top breeders avoid Pal!"  the tinned stuff is awful, well unless you love smelly runny doo's that is.

ok off topic, but yes it is pretty hard to deal with isn't it.

For anyone it rears its head. be careful, NEVER put anything in your mouth while driving.  it can knock you out cold if it triggers it.

Learned the hard way and lucky was doing nought miles n hour going through a roundabout. so car stopped. no accident or damage to anything but confidence. the neurologist said dont need to give up my license long as i never  , etc as above.

that was over ten years ago and he was right

o gee tube feeding is hard as tdierikx said.

so hard to be sure its in the right place, I hope the vet shows you properly how to do it. no second chances if u get it wrong

re your " trigeminal neuralgia,"

Know what you mean.  I have been incredibly lucky, was suggested I try Chinese massage and acqupuncture by a friend who knows a chap with a Masters Degree in pain relief, (he did the standard course at Sydney Uni, then went to China for the Masters Degree.

He warned my I had a 50% chance it may or not work for me.

I have been so fortunate in my case, it switches it off completely for months, although have to go to fortnightly sessions until it completely disappears.  Thanks to covid I didnt go for over 6 months before it came back.  Presently completely gone  again. 

huge alternative to what the neurosurgeon wanted to do. go into my brain and sever it completely,  for the entire left side of my face. said it would leave me with that side totally paralysed as if I had a stroke?

He did not seem to feel like telling me the percentages of the nerve re-joining itself, he was so keen to do the op.  I knew though.

I bought a dog yard that the owner no longer needed as they dog had died of old age. I remember him saying its a fully enclosed dangerous dog yard. When I picked it up it was two panels long and one wide so 8 x 16 and had spring hinges and full wire roof panels as well.

with concrete floor or paving it sure is dog proof all right.

so such pens are made and available

He is right, this is a national disgrace.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/mum-reveals-moments-after-her-twoyearold-son-was-mauled-to-death-by-two-dogs/news-story/51efbf45905bd2086102d338a4205b3a

As well as this from Australia Post.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/australia-post-reveals-shocking-postie-dog-attack-numbers-after-meter-reader-killed/news-story/a639c999f6650f3cf447bdd3e7c5c05f

1 hour ago, Amazetl said:

What’s interesting is that if you are buying a kitten/cat or puppy/dog you don’t need to pay for the chip, that’s the breeders job or person you are getting it from. Desexed and registered costs of course but there are times when they have free or reduced costs, and I can’t imagine desexing cats would cost a lot. And registering them when they’re desexed is reduced. Sounds more like excuses. If you can’t afford those couple things then don’t get one. 

its the people selling the puppies who are not chipping them, many dont even vaccinate them either.  I know because when I get asked to chip a puppy by the buyer almost without fail they dont have a vaccination certificate either.   That's the people who do want to council register their new pup and given my number by someone they know who knows me so for each one I see there must be tens of thousands probably really hundreds of thousands

who never even question should their pup have been chipped?

Forgot I also had two Doberman's for some years, sisters. A breed often used for security work.  different as chalk and cheese in their behaviour to strange people, but still did the job they breed was created to do. 

One would hide when someone came to the house and then once they entered go for them and try to bite them from behind on the legs. Although she never actually made contact she sure chased them off the place. Compared to her sister she was a very nervous type and afraid of people she did not know, but would still drive away strangers. If we were either inside the house when people arrived or not at home.  She never barked to warn us someone was at the gate like her sister would.

The other girl was very confidant and social with visitors when we were home and would do the cattle dog charge and bark the "do not enter" at them at the gate if we were inside to warn us stranger danger then wait for us to tell her it was ok for them to come in.  Or keep barking at them if we were not at home .

the hide girl had a litter and a friends child sneaked off when no one was looking to see the new born puppies. heard him scream and begin crying to find him outside the door of the room she was in.  Brat had opened the door and gone in.  Clearly, on his forehead was the imprint of her closed teeth?  she must have charged him and hit him with her mouth closed to push him away from her pups and out the door?

horrified to think of the damage she could have inflicted if she had opened her teeth to him.

so a breed bred for guard work and never actually did damage to anyone other than scare the daylights out of someone where they should not be.

cant say the same for the headliner breeds and their crosses. so I really do doubt the accuracy of that  survey as to the common dominators of behaviours in known breeds?.

6 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

I didn't write the article.   I, and 18,000+ others contributed to its database.  They asked a huge assortment of questions.   Here's a link describing the article

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/a-dogs-breed-cant-predict-most-of-its-behavior-new-study-shows-180979999/

 

The questions asked may not get to the details.   For example, in my experience in boarding kennels, I found that many Labs/goldies aren't particularly enthusiastic about retrieving balls, whilst many kelpies are.  Questions about retrieving may lead to the conclusion that retrievers aren't especially inclined to retrieve.   However, I think it would be far easier to train a Lab, as compared to a kelpie, to retrieve shot game without damaging it.

O you so cracked me up, send a Kelpie to "retrieve game'? if would be eaten in a flash.

Never forget the day I took a kelpie we had taken to rehome after his owner had died. made the mistake of taking him down when I checked the cattle without a lead. he had been solely a house pet, so had never worked stock. big mistake on my part.

  He took one look at the cattle and was gone in a flash, determined to round them up. the cows had just calved and to my amazement I got to see the oft repeated stories how wild cattle  "form a ring with the calves in the centre to fend off wolves."  my come at a call cattle did the same as Columbus tried desperately to drive them to me. He completely ignored my calls to him to come back.

Lennie our bull increasingly tried to charge and kill him until finally Columbus decided retreat was needed, THEN AND ONLY then did he come running full tilt back to me with one tone of furious bull on his tail!

I ran for my life to the nearest biggest tree, stood with my back to the tree and tried to glue myself to it, just as half wit kelpie arrived and sat at my feet grinning at me?   seconds later Lennie arrived and Columbus realised I wasn't going to do a thing to save him and spun, high tailing it for the house.

Lennie arrived at the tree a split second before the dog ran for it.  Was astonished to see me there glued to the tree.  It was as if he was asking me.  "are you responsible for THAT THING?"  He blew the biggest snort at me as if disgusted I might be involved in scaring his cows and calves so much then took off after the bloody kelpie, much to my relief.

We never muster our cattle with dogs, they have been attacked by so many suburban dogs left to roam by their owners they will attack any dog on sight, (used to lease the Kingswood raaf base for over ten years.)  uncontrolled cats are not the only problem in suburbia.

Just had to either call them to the stockyard or muster with the horses. 

The most effective calf killers were a beagle (who tracked them) and the two great danes with him who then tore them to pieces. The raaf patrols saw them at work a few times before we learned who owned them and warned them, keep them home or their dogs will be shot on sight.

Interestingly neither of the Great Danes were any strokes as guard dogs, or the Basset when we visited their owners. 

On 16/12/2022 at 6:34 PM, Deeds said:

@asal

A significant percentage of the population appear to be fully fledged Bogans and they definitely don't  care about anything except themselves. 

 

So no surprise the dogs are not registered or micro chipped.  But if these dogs came from rescue shelters wouldn't the rescue organisation micro chip the dogs before they were handed over to new owners.

I have reread the story? I cannot find anything in it to give the impression the owner sourced them from a rescue?

far as i know rescues always ensure no dog or cat leaves before it has been chipped. Think all have the desexing policy as well.  Although dog pounds do not as my vet recently bought a stumpy male from cowra pound not desexed. although was certainly microchipped and had been impounded non chipped.

as for the percentage of bogans in our population, I was stunned at how many on faceplant were adamant the dogs who killed the meter reader should not be put down for "doing their job" and even more stunned how many believed a "guard dog is trained to kill any intruder"  that "he asked for it" when he entered a property with a sign saying "enter at your own risk" ?   

So this mentality is far wider spread than I certainly realised.

6 hours ago, Amazetl said:

These are the ones that get on the news and more people think most dog owners are irresponsible because of it, when it’s not the norm. They need some good dog stories. It could be they bred the dogs to not be chipped or maybe bought them illegally. Not registered and not desexed could be a money issue or a not going to be told what to do type of mentality. 

interestingly a lady at the pound told me the majority of dogs that arrive are not chipped or desexed. so the incidence is far higher than we realise.

considering it has been law since 1994.

"Section 10C of the Domestic Animals Act 1994 requires cats and dogs to be microchipped as a condition of registration (which is compulsory once the animal is 3 months of age). However the requirement to microchip prior to sale/transfer under section 12A only applies to domestic animal businesses."

a significant percentage of the population dont care a hoot.

10 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

A similar, recent study found breed wasn't a great predictor of behaviour.  

what kind of  "behaviour" did they "study" perhaps I should have asked?

our family has had Australian Cattledog's, Border Collie's, Poodles, Chihuahua's, Kelpie's and Cavalier King Charles.

None of my Cavaliers showed the slightest interest in bringing in the goats or cattle. Neither did the Poodles or Chihuahuas?

Fetching things was much loved by the Cattledog's, kelpie, border collie and Poodle's. Although Tammie, mums standard poodle scooping up and bringing back Pretzel the chihuahua puppy in her mouth with only her tail showing was the only time any had shown any interest in fetching something live.  Lucky for Pretzel she was certainly wet but totally unharmed.  but then a gun dog is bred to bring back the game undamaged, thank goodness.. Interestingly Tammie  very much loved jumping in the pool and swimming with us, but since they were bred as a water retriever we rather expected that. But the day we found my friends son crying at the back door, his arm firmly held by tammy after he had nicked outside without our knowledge. not just once but three times. showed us something we never expected.  when he got out a 4th time we were watching him, he headed straight to the pool and tammy grabbed his arm and pulled him back to the back door.

how on earth did such a water loving dog know at only 2 he should not get in the water?

would any of the other dogs if they had been there that day know not to let Tony get in the pool?

Cattledogs were bred not just to herd but protect their owner and their belongings, be it swag, horse, car, child, house.

our Kelpie was the ultimate workaholic if there wasn't stock to work then like the border collie happy to "work" any bird that few in or past the place. they would bark when strangers came but none of the "what's the password" attitude of the cattle dogs.

As for the Chihuahua's, definitely, consummate lap warmers think they were best summed up with "what's in it for me?" if you wanted to teach obedience and fetch .

Poodles were bred to retrieve but I discovered they sure were protective our their human.

Cavaliers I read were "originally bred to warm laps in drafty castles and on chilly carriage rides. A prescription written in Olde English for the Queen of England directs her to keep this "comforte dog" on her lap to treat a cold. " Mine certainly believed that was their duty.

Have had many of these breeds and I found them all different personality wise certainly,  but the overall instincts pretty similar as far as their interests and general behaviour went

1 hour ago, Redsonic said:

Great bit of positive press for a breed often maligned. He even looks relaxed with dozens of children looming over him, patting him on the head.

 

its not as if people set out to "malign" the breed. the bogan raised ones get into the headlines all by themselves with terrifying carnage achieved.

too funny, so behaviour "is linked to genes" but not to a breed?   surely the behaviour linked to a gene is passed on by the parents?  I have one, that although she has the original Debbie born in 1984 in her pedigree, (I forget how many generations back the original Debbie is). this girl born 40 years later, is both a visual clone of the original Debbie, she has all her mannerisms and personality the image of her ancestor Debbie.  I know throwbacks occur pretty regularly when breeding. Happens in people Too.  I would have thought the incidence of the desired behaviours would be greater when using parents of the same breed selected for the same desired behaviour? 

Interesting about the herding instinct might leas to a known marker

11 hours ago, coneye said:

You will never stop this sort of thing  from happenning , just too many variables and reasons why it does and does not happen , , most people like the idea there dog is a protector , sfter all thats why they buy that certain dog , but by the same rule most are suprised if not horrified that there dog will go that extra 100 yards . its too complex an issue ,

 

especielly when were talking about a metre reader walking on too a property  that may or may not have had notice there coming too ,,

 

Very sad very tragic , but however these dogs must be destroyed there is no room in society for dogs that go that extra mile  , regardless ,   Ok this time the owners may get off   but what if the circumstances were different and these dogs dug an hole under the fence , and decided the  guy coming home from work  across the road was lunch.

 

I don't care what any of these so called experts say , the facts are some breeds not all but some are bred and  programmed for this sort of thing and   given the right switches it comes out time and time again  maybee its time to ban those breeds  ,  ok they may be needed in some parts of cape town , Port Moresby , or Johanasberg  , but not in Aust ,

 

But then again where do you stop

 

Personally not an argument i would be willing to get into

 

 

very true, try to ban the most efficient at "their job" and we all know what happened, their owners turn on those who tried to implement it.

think there were comparisons made of the death rates annually before and after the most "efficient" breeds at "doing their job"  arriving here. The reason BSL was drafted in the first place.

 so many believe this man "brought it on himself" by going through that gate.   Ok I would never have gone through that gate, but really, losing his life for  being stupid should not be acceptable on any level?

 really?, in the nanny state we now live in we are being strangled by laws constantly being drafted to "protect" .   gee they are now so efficient to "protect" our animals PETA went public in 2020 they "expect the extinction of the domestic dog and cat within this generation"?  Turned out the speaker meant the lifetime of the  dogs and cats born then. not the human population. so within 20 years everyone will be safe from any but the wild forms anyway.

the last legislation to have all bitches banned from having more than two litters didnt get through the latest draft, but the males are not allowed to be bred from after they reach 7 is still in the present draft waiting to be passed.

The agenda is still on track

fact is just two dogs can egg each other on into the pack mentality.

with entirely greater attack results.

although I remember seeing a neighbours pack of pig dogs come after and hold one of his pigs when it escaped from his place and came into mine.

they surrounded it snapping and snarling at it   and the two leaders grabbed an ear each and held it till he came and trussed it up and into his ute. none of the other dogs piled in to tear it to bits 

19 hours ago, BlackWhiteGrey said:

I want to adopt a Chihuahua or mix...there's plenty of them on Gumtree (backyard bred)...but I would rather rescue one.  They don't come up in shelters or pounds very often and when they do it seems they're out the door quickly.  I've also enquired about mature Chi's for sale from registered breeders but they're either already gone or well over my budget.  Since when did dogs become so expensive?  

pit bulls and am staffs are cheap as chips and the pounds are full of em.  there are lots of inexpensive dogs available.   

Just not the ones many people want instead.

21 minutes ago, ~Anne~ said:

I wonder, given the picture with him and what appears to be an Amstaff or Staffy, if his previous experience gave him a false sense of confidence and he entered the property without heeding written warnings about the dogs or their physical warnings to him? 
 

I mean no disrespect to him, his memory or those who loved him by anything I’ve said above - it’s purely my musings and thoughts. It’s sad seeing his picture and putting a face to such a death. May he rest in peace. 

from the article, the owners had in the past locked the side gate when advised the date and time the meter reader was coming. he had no reason to expect they did not comply this time.

but as you say, he did enter. "so no disrespect to him" .  "he entered the property without heeding the written warning".  your assuming the dogs were already in the front yard when he entered?     

as the article states in the previous meter readings the side gate had been locked. Due to the owners notification of the time and date the reader was coming.   rather begs the question, Why did they not comply this time?  Why are they not responsible for leaving the gate open?    as was the case this time.

It is sad the these dogs have been put down for doing their job.

but really do we now live in times where people need to have dogs that kill, doing their job?

until today I was unaware that "guard dogs" are within their job description to kill anyone who by whatever scenario puts a person within their reach?  even when the gates are not locked or latched????????    

would you also say the same if they had come though the unlocked front gate.  (which he had expected to be unlocked from prior meter readings)  and killed him before he was inside the property line?

10 hours ago, Redsonic said:

This is Kane Minion, the fellow who was killed. He obviously loved dogs.

 

 

ABC News Article

 

 

Yes, I had this come up on my facebook page.

with heaps of comments. i hit share. but only the news report came up, none of the comments?????  wish had copied and pasted them for you all to read.

Finally, now i understand why so many people keep dogs they know will kill someone


Pity, all the comments from the people who believe his death is his own fault, that people have the right to keep dogs that will kill . That the dogs "were doing their job and should not be put down". are not coming up if you click on the link? just the press release.
I am amazed how many have said on the fb page I "shared" were all in agreement.
That anyone who enters a property with "dangerous dog" or "guard dogs on duty" is solely at fault if they are killed.

Not the dogs, not the owners, even if they, as in this case left the front gate accessible and unlocked and the side gate open?????????????????

Why restrict access to guns then? I am sure this guy and all the others killed would have preferred a single shot to the head, compared to how they died.

His poor family. None of these people believe the dogs or their owners were responsible for his death.

Australia really has become another america.

some 40 years ago I watched in horror a video  I  stumbled on, of a dog catcher being torn apart by a pitt bull in america, as the watchers filmed her being attacked and voices telling her. "what you deserve for coming here where your not invited bitch!"

 Well folks, its now australia's turn... its save yourself if its your turn some day if your in the wrong place at the right time for elimination. and that lot will tell your family, you "brought it on yourself" 

 I suppose the comments I read that lot would be saying the same for the two dogs killed when they were put in a yard the two dogs next door could pull the fence apart to get to them and kill them. "they were only doing their job guarding their owners property".

stay as far as your can from any place with the warning up, particularly if the gate is  unlocked and catch open and they can get out.  Its your responsibility if your attacked.   

news to me.   How many of you agree with them?

can anyone explain to me why the person  holding a gun and pulling the trigger resulting in the shot killing the person aimed at, is charged with murder.

but the owner/owners\'s of a dog or dog's killing someone is not a murderer?  even less responsible if they have already warning on their gate that their dogs are "guard" or "dangerous" "dog" or "dogs". ?

Found the link.  No wonder so many people have been killed annually when so many replying to this 9 news post are right up front they believe their dogs  "are doing their job", if they kill someone who enters their property?

https://www.facebook.com/news.com.au/posts/pfbid0iQbFn1pzEcxfdtvLW1qgB7eS1LzFGxQGfrFrzvsD5h7JiHEa1HCcM4AqQjAEuK97l?comment_id=535011635154612&notif_id=1670221373188323&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif

Utterly tragic

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/animals/man-fighting-for-life-after-mauling-by-multiple-dogs-at-queensland-home/news-story/3e54514dab730fc25c15d5bbf5739dfd

5 hours ago, Deeds said:

@coneye Exactly.  I have been told this by pit bull owners .

In America many are dual registered, Am Staff and Pit Bull.  I remember when a dual registered male  imported to Australia.   Would seem they are one in the same from that. although Am Staff are exempt from the bsl.

9 hours ago, Tempus Fugit said:

 Interesting though to compare with the campaign by greyhound rescue groups in Aus getting muzzle restrictions on retired greys removed.

However muzzle-in-public laws are no use in preventing attacks by unmuzzled dogs that escape from their owner's premises as in the case of the cattle dog mentioned by ASAL. Theoretically such dogs need to be classified as a "Dangerous Dog" requiring special containment.

Also, as other posts have stated, there are dozens of breeds that are candidates for BSL if you are going to have BSL as a control measure. Apart from pitbulls, I have never been able to fathom why Australia's BSL only involves four breeds.

yes its a catch 22 re ex racing greyhounds. at a race involving my daughter in law's brothers dog, Honey.  There were 9 in the field, the hare stopped.

Honey and six others kept going without a falter, they knew their reward was for the first one into the catching pen would be first to receive their fluffy toy to play with.

only two dogs stopped at the hare, their owners tried to have it declared a no race .  

The race results stood.

the two who stopped I would suspect might need muzzles if out on the street perhaps?

  ( P.S. Salem the cat is the boss of the home.   Although once Honey is on the lounge not much room for anyone else.)

19 hours ago, coneye said:

Problem is   a lot of these dogs  are nice dogs , but the facts are   they are bred for a reason and its instinctive , , Idiot owners   buy them and cannot train or control them .   Facts are some dogs are just not suitable for familly pets ,    on u tube theres a Canadian fella who breeds , sells , and trains working dogs for security and protection work ,, he makes good videos , it was interesting to see him talk  about dutch shepards , he said they should not be used for pets , Course he had a backlog of people  with the mine was the best dog ever , but he was generalising , like he said they are a very very reactive dog , and the dog that  has a far higher percentage of turning and biting there owners ,  get a shepard he says ,    very interesting to listen to him , mind you  he was refering to the ones that come from working lines .

 

But also good points made about africa and the crime ,, because to be honest , I've been to south africa , and i'll tell you this much if i lived there , in certain parts never mind a pit bull  i'd have a lion in the house ,  , in fact i'd have two  just to be sure they done there job ,

 

 

 And that's the Irony.

its Illegal to own a lion in the majority of countries because even though many are as lovely as Elsa when raised right.    When one decides to attack the results are usually fatal or massive  life changing disfigurement and damage,  if the target survives.  

yet who is using the "blame the deed, not the breed" regarding keeping Lions   ????????????  (ok crossed the politically correct line I know)

Frankly, knowing the damage already long documented in the country of origin some breeds should never have been allowed to be imported, but that's after the fact so is not going to solve the problem now.

I know my blood runs cold when a pit bull comes running at me and I think with good reason.  One neighbour has one and they have NEVER taught it to answer to anyone but the son who brought it home.  as a six month pup it tried to kill a newborn foal but the mum drove it off before it had inflicted more than minor damage. I do admit I was sad the mum had not dispatched it.

fast forward 12 month's . Visiting my friend, his mum and it got out of the garage and came for me. Nothing she called of said to it deflected its run.  I knew it was save my self or tough luck.  unlike a cattle dog, german shepherd or rotti.  even the Neo, facing it had no affect on the speed of the charge. fortunately I was near enough to my car to open the door and jump in pulling the door behind me. as the window was open it then tried to climb in and got the glass up in time. and from then on, if I visited her I rang first and she ensured she was locked up and could not get out.

When they went out she was always locked up in case someone came and did not know to not get out of their car. so she sure was not "guarding" anything but the inside of the garage.

for the family she was the darling nanny dog.

lucky for the neighbour hood she stayed home and didnt roam or I have no doubt she would have ended up an "In the News'" candidate.  Actually I suspect one of the reasons she stayed home was the mum of the foal was patrolling the fences watching her every move if she tried to leave home. they were not dog proof fences, just plain and barb wire that kept cattle and horses out of her humans property.   she wasnt bright enough to realise she could exit up the battleaxe driveway .