amebel Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Hello, We have just gotten a male english cocker spaniel, and he's driving me insane! He is 8.5 weeks old, and I'm starting to wonder if he is suitable for our family. He cries constantly, if I leave the room he cries immediately, and he cries all night. We have had him for 5 nights now, and its not getting better. We had him in a basket next to our bed, but he cried all night. We then put him in the laundry with blankets, a towel given to us by the breeder with his litters scent, a cuddly toy, and water, and he howls no matter what we do. I praise him when he is quiet, and say 'no' firmly when he barks, but it doesn't seem to make a difference. He also refuses to go to the toilet outside, he will only do it on the carpet. At night I spend about 15 minutes in the backyard with him, but he just won't do anything, so I put him back in the laundry, and he starts crying again to go out. He has not done a single wee or poo outside since we got him, only ever on the carpet. I find it very hard to catch him in the act, or watch for the signs, as often I will be breastfeeding my youngest and he wees on the carpet and there's not much I can do about it. In fact he has just had his lunch outside and walked back inside to do a big poo and wee on the carpet. He is also constantly biting my daughters. I know this is normal for a pup, but they both don't like him now because of it. They are both young, 19 months and 3 months old. I can't put the baby on the floor as he chews her feet, and sratches her head. He does the same with my eldest, but this morning he latched onto her hair and wouldn't let go. She now runs away from him, or yells 'no!' at him and hits him. I don't know what to do, I have been crying this morning, as he is so gorgeous and he is meant to be a friend for our children, but I am seriously considering whether this puppy is the best thing for our family (and my sanity). My husband works very long hours, and is basically never at home, so I am doing this pretty muchon my own. I really would appreciate your advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanglen Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Please talk to your breeder asap. It sounds really hard for you right now and a active bouncy young pup will be pretty hard with two tiny children. It's sunny weather perhaps have the pup outside during the afternoon but you need to speak to the breeder about how they have been looking afte him so that you can ease his transition but it will be hard, please talk to them asap. We can give advice for specific bits and pieces but it sounds like you need some personalised help at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahona Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Hi Amebel Firstly, deep breath. It sounds like this has overwhelmed you a little. Is this your first dog? It's perfectly natural to take a while getting used to the ways of dog-kind, especially puppies, who can often be demanding. When did you get your little one? Assuming you got him from a breeder, then I'm guessing you didn't get him all that long ago because most breeders wont sell a pup before it is at least 8 weeks old. Operating under the assumption that the pup hasn't been at home with you for long, here is my take on the situation. 1. It's perfectly normal for a little puppy to cry when they first come home with you. It is a completely new situation and the first time he has been away from his mum and littermates likely and that fact alone is enough to make him whine. When I got my lab puppy, she woke me up every night for 2 weeks, at least twice, because she was crying so loudly. I got up, gave her a cuddle and held her for a while till she fell asleep and she eventually outgrew the crying stage. Be firm, and be kind. Having him in a basket in your room with a towel with his littermates scent on it sounds good. If he cries, I would ignore it, even if it wakes you up, or you might teach him to cry and make a noise to seek attention. Maybe try a hot water bottle and a ticking clock close to him? Have you had him vet checked to make sure he isn't in any pain or discomfort? If not, then I would be gentle with him. Don't mollycoddle him through the crying stage or teach him that it's okay to be scared. Reinforce good behaviour, but don't punish bad behaviour. 2. Toilet training can take a while! It really is too much to expect a little puppy to be toilet trained within a week of bringing him home. It took months of consistent work with my lab before she was toilet trained. I would suggest that you speak to your breeder about this, s/he will be able to give you tips on how to toilet train a puppy. From what I have experienced, consistency seems to be key and keep taking a puppy out when they show signs of wanting to go to the toilet, even if the do nothing. Do not punish a puppy for accidents in the house, but make a big fuss of it when it does it's business outside. Be prepared to work with your pup for a while before he gets the message! 3. Puppies bite. That's how they play with their littermates. However, biting is definitely not a good thing and not to be encouraged and when he does it, I would encourage you and your children to put him down, say No firmly and ignore him till he stops biting. That worked well with my labbie girl. Definitely no smacking, and no loud shrieks either, because that encourages a pup to keep 'playing'. As with toilet training, consistency is the key here and I would encourage you to make sure that all your family members are on the same page! It is quite frustrating I know, but puppies are such a joy and pleasure and only really need some work and understanding to turn them into wonderful family members. Have you looked into puppy preschool and obedience classes? I would definitely encourage you to do so! Good luck, and keep us posted! a. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahona Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Sorry, I missed the bit where you said your girls are 19 months and 3 months old. That is very young and it sounds like you might have your hands full with them. I don't honestly know if a pup is right for you at this stage, it might be better to wait till they are a little older before getting a pup so you have the time you need to devote to it. I'd be speaking to your breeder about this and seeing if they can maybe find a more suitable home for the puppy? If you are determined you want a dog now, an older one might be the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 I work in rescue and my group usually recommends waiting until kids are 5 years old before you get a dog. There are many reasons why - parents are normally VERY busy with younger children and their needs, young children don't understand how to interact with animals very well and vice versa sometimes etc. I have a toilet training method which I post on this forum all the time but I really feel this is all too much for your current situation because it requires consistency over time, this will be difficult for you I imagine with 2 such young children who would need so much attention. I'd recommend waiting until the children are much older, when you won't be as stressed, before you consider getting another dog. Getting a puppy is like having a third child - they need heaps of time spending on their needs and their training, this situation isn't good for any of you as far as I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 I would be contacting the breeder and asking to return the puppy I could not cope with a pup with 3 kids under 3 and do not know many people who could Is your yard secure? have you thought about putting him outside to sleep at night? He might be used to this from teh breeder But I would call the breeder and talk to them about your problems I agree with dogmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pandii Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 No expert here at all but IMO Put the puppy in the place you want it to sleep and ignore it, when it is quiet go to it quick praise and out again. at night put paper down for it to toilet on and ignore the crying expect a few days of this, also tyr bedtime at about 11pm then mornin at 6.30am. you can make this longer when you pup grows Regarding the toileting, put the pup outside while you are feeding, if it cry ignore it. Do not let it in until it is quiet. other times, watch you pup, after feeding drinking and napping take it out stay withit until it goes then praise, then back inside. Dont leave your children near the pup unattended, get a crate put the pup in it when you cant watcht he kids and dogs together. your children are babies and will be scared of a bounceyy bitey pup. Teach them not to scream and run but get the oldest one to stand still with croseed arms, if the pup jumps get her to turn around. I know she is young but if you are their show her how to do it. The pup will stop then give it attention if it jumps again turn aruond arms crossed. For you youngest one, I would get a play pen, either put the dog or kid in it. Go to pupppy school and obedience classes, take you 19 month she can learn too. make sure the pup has plenty of toys that are not your childrens. you can teach dogs to leave kids toy and only chew their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 To be totally honest with you it sounds as though you are not set up for caring for a baby puppy and he is a baby. The timing is all wrong. He is toileting inside the house because a)he's a baby and b)because he is not house trained. House training takes time and effort. This puppy is not yet in control of his bowels and bladder just the same as human babies don't have control. It takes time, dedication and the knowledge of when the pup needs to eliminate so you can take him outside at appopriate intervals. He needs to be taken out after eating, drinking, sleeping, playing and you need to stay outside with him until he obliges so you can praise him for being a good dog. Choose a word you use for toilet and keep repeating that word until he associates it with what is required of him. He is crying because he has been taken away from everything he knows in his life. His mother, his litter mates and the familiarity of the home in which he was raised. Everything is new, strange and frightening to him. He sounds like a perfectly normal puppy to me and is behaving as normal puppies do. If I were you I would contact the breeder to see if you can return the puppy. I would also suggest you wait until you have time to give a puppy the attention it needs before getting another one. Puppies are a lot of work and they are time consuming. Baby puppies, like human babies, need a lot of time and attention to house train them and teach them that they are not allowed to put teeth on human skin. He is behaving with the children as he would with his litter mates. Did you buy this puppy from a registered breeder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) Sorry, I missed the bit where you said your girls are 19 months and 3 months old.That is very young and it sounds like you might have your hands full with them. I don't honestly know if a pup is right for you at this stage, it might be better to wait till they are a little older before getting a pup so you have the time you need to devote to it. I'd be speaking to your breeder about this and seeing if they can maybe find a more suitable home for the puppy? If you are determined you want a dog now, an older one might be the way to go. I'm afraid that I agree with Ahona on this, a 19 month old, a 3 month old and a husband who works long hours makes me think you may have too many demands on you at this point to cope with a baby puppy. Puppies are gorgeous but need a lot of attention and make a lot of work. The return in the end is well worth it, but the effort may just be more than you can give at the moment with your other responsibilites. Edited November 16, 2007 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie_the_Frenchie Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Hi amebel, I have had my pup for about 3 months now, and at first it was an absolute nightmare (and he's a mild-mannered breed!). If it's your first pup, you can really get a shock, I know. But just so you know, it does get better if you are consistent and persevere with them. I wanted to send him back so many times, through sheer frustration, but I nearly cry when I think of that thought now! However, with little kids, I can imagine it is a lot harder. Pups really are hard work, I wasn't expecting it to be so hard (and I had done a lot of reading and research), I don't think you can know until you are there experiencing it! They're a bit like kids, hey?! It does get better though - I think when you first get them it's the hardest, just the adjustment aswell! Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will be in your kids and the puppy's best interests. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulnkat Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Well said CavNrott. :D In effect you now have two babies and one toddler. The timing just isn't right for a pup. I can't begin to imagine what you are going through these last 5 days! I suspect you have to get up serval times during the night to feed your daughter let alone, be woken up by a cry pup. I know this must be difficult for you and you are that stressed and exhausted it can't be good for your own health and the wellbeing of the family. You have admitted that your husband works long hours which means this has become your problem so you need to make the decision for your own health. I suggest to speak with the breeder and have the pup rehomed, reconsider getting a another pup or even an adult dog (the house training is already done!) when the timing is right. Best of luck ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amebel Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) Thanks so much for your quick and kind responses, I thought I'd get flamed! I am definetely in way over my head here. I'm a bit emotional and sleep deprived, as I've been getting up to the puppy every half hour as well as feeding my daughter overnight! To answer some questions- Yes, we got him from a registered breeder. We have only had him for 5 days, and I feel that if we can't tale care of him, it is best to take him back to the breeder while he is young. I have been praising him for being quiet, but it is rare. His crying eventually wakes up the kids, so I tend to give into him and let him in. I know this is only teaching him to continue crying! We would like him to learn to sleep outside eventually, as our yard is very secure and has heaps of room. The crying is what has put us off leaving him out there, as he is much worse if he's outside. I've put newspaper down for him but he still refuses to go on it. I have noticed that he is going back to the same places, so perhaps I need to use a different cleaner. I see a lot of people recommend an enzyme laundry powder? I use Omo, will that work? I really would like to keep him, he is beautiful and has a lovely nature, but I also want what is best for him and for our family! Edited November 16, 2007 by amebel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Amebel - I really feel you must take him back as soon as possible. If your children are hitting him, that is abuse and the trouble is, they are only trying to protect themselves. Children under 5 just don't understand unfortunately. I recommend, when they are older and you are less committed to their needs, that you consider a mature, at least medium sized dog of around 4 years of age, they are much calmer at that age. Please don't get any working type dogs as they herd/nip. I just got an email from someone with a young child who had euthanased her young border collie because it had twice nipped her daughter's heels which is what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahona Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 :D It sounds like you want what is best for the puppy Amebel! Maybe look into getting an older dog once your little one is at least a year old, that way you won't have to spend as much time toilet training it and it'll already know not to bite people! I'd reckon that speaking to the breeder as soon as you can is a good idea and seeing if they can help find another home for the pup! And make sure to rest a little, you're probably exhausted after the past few days. Chocolate is in order :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belljari Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 I agree with what the others have said, I would be definately ringing the breeder and seeing if they can take him back. You don't have one baby but two as the puppy is only a bub too. No wonder you are nearly going crazy! I have twins and there is now way i could have coped with a puppy as well ( we have older dogs) I waited till they turned 3 years and we have our puppy now and it has been great as they can help they love him and he loves them. Good luck which ever you decide to do :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 As everyone has said the timing is wrong Call the breeder Just out of curiousity, does the breeder know you have a 3 month old and a 19 month old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amebel Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 Yes, the breeder was aware of our childrens ages. Kind of makes me wonder a bit, as I would never have gotten him if I had have known what was involved, as she would be well aware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulnkat Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 I'm very surprised that the breeder sold you a pup aswell :D I don't know anyone that has the ability to raise two young children and train and give a pup enough attention at the same time! Best of luck again, and make sure you take some time out to pamper yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 And if he goes back to his breeder, you can relax and enjoy your children.. and come back here when you're ready for a dog again :D Who knows, a little way down the track, someone here may have the perfect dog for your family... take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amebel Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 Thanks for your replies, I have spoken to the breeder, and we will be returning him to them tomorrow. I feel terrible about it all, but its the best for everyone. I know this sounds horribly crude, but should we expect the money we paid for him, or part of it back? He was $650 Thanks for your replies again, you have all been so nice and reassured my judgement that I'm doing the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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