Grechy Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 My partner & I recently purchased our first puppy (an Australian Bulldog) so being our first dog we thought we'd send him to a local dog trainer. The trainer's dogs are exceptionally obedient & as would be expected come on one vocal comand or hand movement. We've been training him with a collar though have used a check chain on him today & have had different opinions on this already. From what I gather if it's not used with too much force (how much is too much with a puppy???) then they can be effective though from what I know a lot of vets don't recommend them. What are some of the opinions here on them & is there a risk that this could cause injuries to my lil mate down the track. He's like our first child & we'd hate to have any problems with him in the future due to my inexperience & lack of knowledge on this subject....That's why I've asked here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL1 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Depends on the trainer you see. I've been recommeded to use choke chains by one, another will say no use a halti, another says to use a harness for back up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) I wouldn't use more than a flat collar on a puppy. Check chains, if you know how to use them, can be a useful tool with some dogs. How old is your pup? I would recommend going to an obedience club where you can train your dog and do some socialisation. If you let us know where you are we can recommend some good clubs. Which trainer did you go to? Do you know what methods this trainer used? Edit as I repeated myself Edited October 19, 2008 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 My partner & I recently purchased our first puppy (an Australian Bulldog) so being our first dog we thought we'd send him to a local dog trainer. The trainer's dogs are exceptionally obedient & as would be expected come on one vocal comand or hand movement. We've been training him with a collar though have used a check chain on him today & have had different opinions on this already.From what I gather if it's not used with too much force (how much is too much with a puppy???) then they can be effective though from what I know a lot of vets don't recommend them. What are some of the opinions here on them & is there a risk that this could cause injuries to my lil mate down the track. He's like our first child & we'd hate to have any problems with him in the future due to my inexperience & lack of knowledge on this subject....That's why I've asked here Hi grechy I've used check chains with no issues. Some people still think of them as "choke chains" - but used correctly its more about the dog associated the sound of the chain being 'checked' than choking or hurting him. I think there are certainly people who use them incorrectly - as with any training tool - but used properly under the guidance of a trainer and there should be no worries. The only reason I don't use them often now is because I find martingales more effective (think half check chain, half collar) because you can adjust it to sit firmly under the dog's ears, high up on its neck and I found that easier to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Train him properly now on a flat collar and there will be no need for a check chain. One of my pet peeves is seeing a puppy with a check chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I'd never use a check, I hate them. They put all the pressure on one spot. BTW, I think it's a load of crap that if you teach it loose lead walking now it'll be fine as an adult. Axle was perfect till about 6-7 months and then he started pulling and pulling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 BTW, I think it's a load of crap that if you teach it loose lead walking now it'll be fine as an adult. Axle was perfect till about 6-7 months and then he started pulling and pulling. Only if you let them. He was probably testing you long before "he started pulling and pulling". At that age of course they start testing the boundaries, you just need to reinforce the correct behaviour that they already know how to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) Best to start off with a flat collar first. Get the pup into a good walking routine and there will be no need for a check chain. A check chain can be a highly effective training tool if used in the correct manner, for addressing the appropriate problem. The thing is, newbies generally don't know what the correct manner is. Whatever the case, a training tool is only as dangerous or effective as its user. Edited October 19, 2008 by dogdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 BTW, I think it's a load of crap that if you teach it loose lead walking now it'll be fine as an adult. Axle was perfect till about 6-7 months and then he started pulling and pulling. Only if you let them. He was probably testing you long before "he started pulling and pulling". At that age of course they start testing the boundaries, you just need to reinforce the correct behaviour that they already know how to do. And I did that with a prong collar. I don't get the fascination people have with using the harder methods. I prefer using the easiest method which will get the quickest result... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 If he is walking nicely on a flat collar, I dont see why you would need one. My dog was a habitual puller (for whatever reason) and I have had to use a trainer and many tools to get on top of it. Like Huski, I now use a martingale but previously have used a prong, check chain and a harness and of the latter I actually feel most comfortable with a check chain. It is simple and effective when used properly. IF you need it- hopefully you will train your little fellow well and you wont! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Dont know about you Midol, but i dont see teaching loose lead walking without a prong or check chain the hard way, i call it the best way. Prongs or checks arent 'training' in my eyes they are just a temporary solution that dont 'fix' anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsKatie Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) The dog obedience club I went to today suggested check chains or 'gentle leaders' - haltis but also looked at martingale I was using and - after their surprise at seeing one - said that they were also ok. I have used check chains but that was with adult dogs - I like the martingale on a puppy but that is personal preference. ETA - you can get martingale that include a chain loop rather than a fabric as the part that tightens - if you can understand what I mean - that might give the same sound as a check chain and work in the same manner - I think this is the one Huski is talking about - the one I have is all fabric. Edited October 19, 2008 by Kelpiepupmum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) Dont know about you Midol, but i dont see teaching loose lead walking without a prong or check chain the hard way, i call it the best way.Prongs or checks arent 'training' in my eyes they are just a temporary solution that dont 'fix' anything. I don't think Midol sees prongs or checks as training (I certainly don't) - just training tools to aid you with your training program. I have to use a martingale with my dog (for safety as he can slip flat collars) but I also find it useful as a tool when we are training, if I need it (which isn't very often). I wouldn't use a check on a young puppy either, but I won't pass judgment on people who need the assistance that tools can give them. Some dogs are more difficult than others and not one way will fit all dogs. ETA: Kelpiepupmum, yep I was referring to the chain martingale but I also use the 'all material ones' which are very stylish Edited October 19, 2008 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alasse Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) I use check chains, always have. On pups i use a training one, it is made of material rather than chain, as they age i change to the chain type Edited October 19, 2008 by Alasse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Prongs or checks arent 'training' in my eyes they are just a temporary solution that dont 'fix' anything. Then go and learn to use one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I like check chains and have no problem with using them. But not on a puppy, My girl was 3.5 before i put one on her and it worked very well. I have seen trainers who know what they are doing, turn a dog around in no time at all with a check chain. I have used prongs, and do like it, but never got the same results that i did with a check chain. I have not really used one on Atlas, my main problem with my dogs is pulling, and well... AT walks to the end of the driveway and turns to go home, dont have much of a problem with pulling with him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I don't get the fascination people have with using the harder methods. I prefer using the easiest method which will get the quickest result... What is hard to you is easy to others, and vice versa. I have a friend who dropped out of training her border collie in the 80's because she personally found it very difficult to use a check chain to correct her dog. She had a very good eye for behaviour modification tho', and if positive training had been popular at the time, it would have worked really well for her. Likewise, what constitutes a "result" is different for different people. I have had old school show people warn me against doing obedience with my show dogs because "they will lose their sparkle". I know what they mean, and I also know that there are methods you can use to preserve the sparkle, but the fact is that if you're heavy with a dog, you may get compliance, but it will be at the expense of other qualities you might want to retain. Whenever we use a training method or set a criteria, I think we need to think about how that will influence what else we might want to do with the dog (like people who set "no sniffing ever!" criteria who then want their dog to start tracking like a genius). For the OP, a check chain on a puppy is overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdog2 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Slightly OT, but I'm finding a lot of places won't stock check chains anymore . Even harder to get is the "snake check chain" - I ended up ordering it on the net! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Prongs or checks arent 'training' in my eyes they are just a temporary solution that dont 'fix' anything. Then go and learn to use one. Right because i dont know how to use a check chain? Perhaps you should go learn how to train a dog to not pull without any equipement? Sorry to burst your bubble but they are merely a temporary control, one that is no different to a halti or gentle leader, the dog immediately starts pulling as soon as the prong or whatever is taken off.......what has the dog learned about not pulling? Uhh nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alasse Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Sorry but that is not really true With my guy, he has been trained with a check chain his entire life and he does generally wear it to walk, but....i have and can walk him in just his normal collar and he still walks without pulling. The check chain is purely there now to check, a quick correction no different to the correction he gets when he is in a normal collar. Though generally the word 'heel' is enough now to bring him to where he should be. The chain/collor is now really there to keep within council laws. A dog should NOT pull continuously when wearing a check chain....if they are then you are not using the check chain correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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