Do You Consider Obedience "work"?

[Heidii]

In the GSD thread going in in general people are claiming obedience is considered work.

When someone competes in obedience, do you think they are working their dogs?

To me obedience is not work, I don't even know if I'd consider obedience trials to be a sport. It is testing your skills as a handler to teach the dog - but you're not working the dog.

Views?

ETA: To clarify, I don't consider any sport dog to be "working" with the exception of maybe herding & potentially tracking. If someone told me IRL that they worked their dogs and I asked doing what and I was told obedience I'd feel like slapping them.

I rekon "Working" and "Working Dog" mean two different things depending on the text.

You wouldnt call a dog that competes in obedience a "working dog" simply because a working dog is usually one from a farm/police dog/guide dog that works everyday of its life and is there only for working or doing particular tasks.

I personally would call an obedience dog one that "competes in dog sports", however when he is in the ring and doing the activites I want him to do i would consider that "working" but he isnt a "working dog" as such.

Hope that makes sense...

[Lablover]

Having not read all the threads.... I think we have to remember why obedience trials became popular after the WWII.

Obedience trials were simply ............originally for pure bred dogs and their possible breeding merit.

Whatever our endeavour as owners, obedience is important.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Lablover

[Just Midol]

Now Midol you wrote this about dogs - "For me the dog is working if it is using their natural instinctive abilities to perform a task which the dog was specifically bred for.

There isn't a single breed that I know of that has instincts specifically tuned for obedience trials and bred for obedience trials."

I changed my mind, expanded my definition and limited it in some aspects. That quote is no longer relevant.

[luvsablue]

I don't think it matters whether we call it "work" or "sport"; let's be honest we do it to show our training skills, or to exhibit our dogs, or simply to compete against others. But even so, I've got a suspicion that it is good for the dog's brain to learn new stuff and it strengthens the bond between dog and handler. And I have heard people say that a dog is a good worker if the dog does the tasks well. Anyway my dog thinks of it as fun, and I try to keep it that way. Question; would we think obedience was work if it was paid? When I compete in an obedience trial it's not work, more like when I used to play tennis on a weekend.

[arawnhaus]

I do not think obedience is anything else but obedience.

To work a dog, to my mind is to put it in service work or practice the next best thing being Dog-sport, Schutzhund IPO VPG and the various Ring sports, KNPV Mondio ring NVBK.In regard to 'service' that covers testing physicality such as farm duties and Guarding,etc anything to really test the dog mentally and physically.

Nothing makes that animal 100% reliable obviously dogs have bad days....as well as Great!

Edited April 4, 2009 by Delkerabo

[neatz]

im not sure the dog can tell if what you're askin it to do is work. Are you mentally stimulating the dog,is it being kept foucussed etc,,this is work...

I guess its the age old debate,office work versues the tradie(mmmmmm tradies )

I wasn't going to read anyone else's response before I added my own but I think this hits the nail on the head. Obedience is working the dogs brain and herding etc is working the dogs muscles.

Definition of work: to exert oneself by doing mental or physical work for a purpose or out of necessity. Under that definition I would classify obedience to be working a dog in the mental sense.

[neatz]

I do not think obedience is anything else but obedience.

To work a dog, to my mind is to put it in service work or practice the next best thing being Dog-sport, Schutzhund IPO VPG and the various Ring sports, KNPV Mondio ring NVBK.In regard to 'service' that covers testing physicality such as farm duties and Guarding,etc anything to really test the dog mentally and physically.

Nothing makes that animal 100% reliable obviously dogs have bad days....as well as Great!

If generations of kelpies have been selected based on their skill "working" farm animals than wouldnt it become second nature for that breed of dog to display this instinct? Therefor IMO it would be much more difficult to obedience train a dog to work with it's owner and to comply to commands that are not instinctual.

And if it's not considered work in the dog sense it is bloody hard work for the owner to get their dog to the upper level of obedience.

[Just Midol]

I do not think obedience is anything else but obedience.

To work a dog, to my mind is to put it in service work or practice the next best thing being Dog-sport, Schutzhund IPO VPG and the various Ring sports, KNPV Mondio ring NVBK.In regard to 'service' that covers testing physicality such as farm duties and Guarding,etc anything to really test the dog mentally and physically.

Nothing makes that animal 100% reliable obviously dogs have bad days....as well as Great!

There we go, that's asically the perfect definition for me. I was having trouble putting it into words.

I do not think obedience is anything else but obedience.

To work a dog, to my mind is to put it in service work or practice the next best thing being Dog-sport, Schutzhund IPO VPG and the various Ring sports, KNPV Mondio ring NVBK.In regard to 'service' that covers testing physicality such as farm duties and Guarding,etc anything to really test the dog mentally and physically.

Nothing makes that animal 100% reliable obviously dogs have bad days....as well as Great!

If generations of kelpies have been selected based on their skill "working" farm animals than wouldnt it become second nature for that breed of dog to display this instinct? Therefor IMO it would be much more difficult to obedience train a dog to work with it's owner and to comply to commands that are not instinctual.

And if it's not considered work in the dog sense it is bloody hard work for the owner to get their dog to the upper level of obedience.

It doesn't matter if it difficult.

[JulesP]

im not sure the dog can tell if what you're askin it to do is work. Are you mentally stimulating the dog,is it being kept foucussed etc,,this is work...

I guess its the age old debate,office work versues the tradie(mmmmmm tradies )

I wasn't going to read anyone else's response before I added my own but I think this hits the nail on the head. Obedience is working the dogs brain and herding etc is working the dogs muscles.

Definition of work: to exert oneself by doing mental or physical work for a purpose or out of necessity. Under that definition I would classify obedience to be working a dog in the mental sense.

I actually think that my dogs find herding much more mentally challenging than obedience or agility.

[Tay.]

I would consider Obedience as 'work'. But thats just what i think... I'd say agility is 'work' too.

Maybe thats just cos i have a BC and there working dogs.

I classify with my dog anything thats getting her to do some thing is 'work'.

[Tay.]

In the GSD thread going in in general people are claiming obedience is considered work.

When someone competes in obedience, do you think they are working their dogs?

To me obedience is not work, I don't even know if I'd consider obedience trials to be a sport. It is testing your skills as a handler to teach the dog - but you're not working the dog.

Views?

ETA: To clarify, I don't consider any sport dog to be "working" with the exception of maybe herding & potentially tracking. If someone told me IRL that they worked their dogs and I asked doing what and I was told obedience I'd feel like slapping them.

I rekon "Working" and "Working Dog" mean two different things depending on the text.

You wouldnt call a dog that competes in obedience a "working dog" simply because a working dog is usually one from a farm/police dog/guide dog that works everyday of its life and is there only for working or doing particular tasks.

I personally would call an obedience dog one that "competes in dog sports", however when he is in the ring and doing the activites I want him to do i would consider that "working" but he isnt a "working dog" as such.

Hope that makes sense...

i agree!!

as confusing as that sounds... it makes sence!

[arawnhaus]

I do not think obedience is anything else but obedience.

To work a dog, to my mind is to put it in service work or practice the next best thing being Dog-sport, Schutzhund IPO VPG and the various Ring sports, KNPV Mondio ring NVBK.In regard to 'service' that covers testing physicality such as farm duties and Guarding,etc anything to really test the dog mentally and physically.

Nothing makes that animal 100% reliable obviously dogs have bad days....as well as Great!

If generations of kelpies have been selected based on their skill "working" farm animals than wouldnt it become second nature for that breed of dog to display this instinct? Therefor IMO it would be much more difficult to obedience train a dog to work with it's owner and to comply to commands that are not instinctual.

And if it's not considered work in the dog sense it is bloody hard work for the owner to get their dog to the upper level of obedience.

I know this is a Great thing among working Animal Breeder's not a negative.What you wrote there is what some people are actually trying to do and some very fortunate breeder's are doing it.

I will not attempt to sway anybody here,but honestly if generations of working Kelpies all of a sudden where placed in pet OB homes....I would cry for them,knowing they have Instincts to be actually performing a Breed-original function and not a silly billy Test for all to clap for.

'Difficult'.......Yes Please!

Obedience has it's place for obvious reasons.If i tell my dog sit and it does....That makes it a obedient dog and NOT a Working dog because it did what it has been taught what to do.

Edited April 5, 2009 by Delkerabo

[Kelpie-i]

Believe it or not, there have been many working line kelpies that have fitted nicely into a surburban home. I think the main aim is that the owners of such dogs provide plenty of mental and physical stimulation to keep its sanity.

A kelpie bred to work should have instincts but if they are not introduced to sheep from an early age, they usually have no idea what to do with the sheep once they are introduced later in life. That is not to say that they won't pick it up eventually...most certainly, and some like fish to water, but I don't believe these guys will ever out perform their siblings who have been introduced to sheep from pups.

Obedience has it's place for obvious reasons.If i tell my dog sit and it does....That makes it a obedient dog and NOT a Working dog because it did what it has been taught what to do.

Totally agree.

[arawnhaus]

Believe it or not, there have been many working line kelpies that have fitted nicely into a surburban home. I think the main aim is that the owners of such dogs provide plenty of mental and physical stimulation to keep its sanity.

A kelpie bred to work should have instincts but if they are not introduced to sheep from an early age, they usually have no idea what to do with the sheep once they are introduced later in life. That is not to say that they won't pick it up eventually...most certainly, and some like fish to water, but I don't believe these guys will ever out perform their siblings who have been introduced to sheep from pups.

Obedience has it's place for obvious reasons.If i tell my dog sit and it does....That makes it a obedient dog and NOT a Working dog because it did what it has been taught what to do.

Totally agree.

The suburban home i specifically mean is the one in which the dog is relegated to that of a backyard with nothing to do inside of it.

Agree with all here.

The 'potential' of the working bred Animal being wasted on boredom and being rehomed after it satisfies itself is what I find sad.

[White_Shadow]

"It is testing your skills as a handler to teach the dog - but you're not working the dog."

I agree with your statement.

[Kelpie-i]

The 'potential' of the working bred Animal being wasted on boredom and being rehomed after it satisfies itself is what I find sad.

True, totally wasted talent.

[neatz]

Sorry I still don't see why obedience is not working? Is it because it's not as physically challenging compared to say herding?

It sounds like working is only working if its what the dog was originally bred to do and is serving a purpose for us humans. ie herding, hunting/retrieving, guard work etc

Are guide dogs working (this doesn't fall in the sport category)? (sorry if this has already been mentioned)

[Reddii]

Sorry I still don't see why obedience is not working? Is it because it's not as physically challenging compared to say herding?

It sounds like working is only working if its what the dog was originally bred to do and is serving a purpose for us humans. ie herding, hunting/retrieving, guard work etc

Are guide dogs working (this doesn't fall in the sport category)? (sorry if this has already been mentioned)

I think to sum up the discussion - 'working your dog' refers to pretty much any activity that involves training and requires structured or measured responses. This might or might not involve paid 'work'.

A 'working dog' on the other hand is a dog that is used by its owner to in the process of deriving a living. The understanding of what that meant varied. eg: Some consider greyhounds to be working dogs, some not so much.

[neatz]

Sorry I still don't see why obedience is not working? Is it because it's not as physically challenging compared to say herding?

It sounds like working is only working if its what the dog was originally bred to do and is serving a purpose for us humans. ie herding, hunting/retrieving, guard work etc

Are guide dogs working (this doesn't fall in the sport category)? (sorry if this has already been mentioned)

I think to sum up the discussion - 'working your dog' refers to pretty much any activity that involves training and requires structured or measured responses. This might or might not involve paid 'work'.

A 'working dog' on the other hand is a dog that is used by its owner to in the process of deriving a living. The understanding of what that meant varied. eg: Some consider greyhounds to be working dogs, some not so much.

Thanks Reddii for catch up, too many pages to read otherwise.

[gsdog2]

I think to sum up the discussion - 'working your dog' refers to pretty much any activity that involves training and requires structured or measured responses. This might or might not involve paid 'work'.

A 'working dog' on the other hand is a dog that is used by its owner to in the process of deriving a living. The understanding of what that meant varied. eg: Some consider greyhounds to be working dogs, some not so much.

That's a great summary Reddii . I googled "working dog" in Wikipedia and felt the description there did not cover all working dogs.

The only addition I would add to your summary is that a working dog not only helps an owner in "deriving a living", but may also "assist the owner in day-to-day living".