Demodectic Mange

[Hud]

Thanks for all the replies. It's interesting to see that there is such a varied view to such a common 'illness'.

I currently feed my little guy Eukunuba. That seems to be working relatively well for him.

I intend to ride this out. But the main question I had hasn't really been answered from those that have treated their pups in the past. That is, when do you normally expect to see improvements? As of this morning, I've found another little outbreak on his body. These seem to be cropping up every couple of days. Only one or two 'pimples' are found with some associated hair loss. Is this normal? Is this part of the healing process?

The main part above his eye has started healing. The skin looks dry and has returned to it's normal colour. It even looks as though some hair has started growing back - which is positive.

I suppose my biggest concern is if this turns from localised to generalised mange. I'm meant to be taking him back to the vet 3 weeks into his treatment. I'm wondering if I should take him back sooner if these extra little outbreaks keep happening...

Once again, thanks for your replies.

Regards

Hud

[auto]

Hud ; i case i sore of it,the dog had little outbreaks for a period of about 3wks,before it all started to go away.i hope this is of some help.

[stacyk]

You should see improvement immediately (ie no more spreading).

Within a week it should be healing up with hair growing back over the next week or so.

I have successfully treated demodex with dectomax injections once a week for six weeks.

If it is a very mild case and its not spreading it is best to let the dog heal naturally and not treat with chemicals however if it is spreading, causing discomfort or at risk of becoming infected I would not hesitate to treat with chemicals.

Most cases of demodex in pups is juvenille only so yes they will out grow it and it should not be an issue later in life, however some genetic cases will reoccur throughout life (there is normally an underlying health issue in these cases and the demodex is just a secondary symptom).

For ongoing maintenance until the pup as matured you can treat with advocate fortnightly which can of course be changed to monthly once the pup is older.

OT I know... but I would not be put off by chemicals in dry food. These companies do not put 'nasty' chemicals in, though people are right there would be chemicals present just like in human processed food. If I had the time I would love to feed my dogs a home made 'organic' diet however I would first have this analysed to ensure it is nutritionally balanced.

EDIT TO ADD: Yes I would take your pup back to the vet if he is having other outbreaks.

Edited April 18, 2009 by stacyk

[rsea]

How did this turn out Hud?

My vet recommended a $500 Ivomec treatment for DM for my 5 month old Staffy this morning. I haven't gone with it yet as I'm considering my options

[Nekhbet]

frankly I would be taking him off the eukanuba

Some dogs get worst before they get better, some continue downhill. He's getting worst hence I would change the diet to a raw diet and if you want minerals/vits guarenteed then you cannot go past the Vets All Natural Health Booster added as well.

Ingredients that do not completely agree with the dog may not show up when healthy BUT when already ill the help the dog get worst. Get it off the grains, I would go for a good pet mince/minced carcasses, veges and some boiled rice for fibre as well as the powder while the demodex is getting better. Add some tinned fish a couple of times a week for omega oils.

No eukanuba, Hills, pro plan are not super premium due to their ridiculous filler content. I have bald dogs just feeding this to mine!

Ivomec is very safe when used correctly. In-fact derivatives of Ivomec are used vastly throughout the pet industry in many medications including horse wormers, heartworm preventives, flea treatments and even as a fish wormer.

For demodex it is off label use. Yes it is used in a wide variety of animals but some dogs have an allergy to this product as well. It is also very widely spread and resistance (suprisingly) is starting to pop up. I have seen dogs pumped with thestuff and the demodex remains because no one is treating the immune system.

There is a product I use for my dogs from Melaluca called Activate Immune Complex which I found helped a lot with their skin.

[WreckitWhippet]

How did this turn out Hud?

My vet recommended a $500 Ivomec treatment for DM for my 5 month old Staffy this morning. I haven't gone with it yet as I'm considering my options

There are far more conservative treatments that you could try first.

The all natural raw diet being one of them, along with the aloe juice

Or you could try Advocate, it's about $60 for three months of treatment

You could try washing in Malaseb ( $17 ) then rinsing in Demodex rinse ( $26)

I would start with the natural options for localised demodex and give the animal a chance to improve it's immune system and to recover on it's own and move on through the options if there is no improvement.

Demodex in Staffords tends to occur during stressfull times in their lives, which includes after vaccination, during teething and again around the 7-10 months as they begin to mature. I would look at how your puppy has been vaccinated, what protocol was followed and what vaccine was used.

[Pixie's mum]

Our 3 year old got mange as a 5 month old pup. We barf feed her, though she had parvo as a 10 week old pup, which we think severely suppressed her immune system.

The vet gave her weekly injections for about 6 - 12 weeks (sorry can't remember it was a long time ago) and her skin cleared up. She had quite a few scrapings over about 2 months before they were able to diagnose the problem and commence treatment.

The treatment went well - she still loves the vets and is now a very fit and healthy girl.

One point to note though - the vet suggested desexing (which we were doing [and did] at 6 months anyway) as it can be a genetic issue.

[dancinbcs]

Our 3 year old got mange as a 5 month old pup. We barf feed her, though she had parvo as a 10 week old pup, which we think severely suppressed her immune system.

The vet gave her weekly injections for about 6 - 12 weeks (sorry can't remember it was a long time ago) and her skin cleared up. She had quite a few scrapings over about 2 months before they were able to diagnose the problem and commence treatment.

The treatment went well - she still loves the vets and is now a very fit and healthy girl.

One point to note though - the vet suggested desexing (which we were doing [and did] at 6 months anyway) as it can be a genetic issue.

I now believe it is probably more likely linked to diet rather than genetics as my foundation dog had demodex at 5 months, my foundation bitch had it when raising her first littter and some of this litter also had it at about 12 weeks. More than twenty years later with several generations all descended from these original dogs I have never had another case. The only thing that has changed is that I have fed a natural BARF diet for over 10 years now so diet may well be the culprit. If it was genetic I would still be getting cases in animals that are line bred to my foundation stock.

[~Anne~]

I now believe it is probably more likely linked to diet rather than genetics as my foundation dog had demodex at 5 months, my foundation bitch had it when raising her first littter and some of this litter also had it at about 12 weeks. More than twenty years later with several generations all descended from these original dogs I have never had another case. The only thing that has changed is that I have fed a natural BARF diet for over 10 years now so diet may well be the culprit. If it was genetic I would still be getting cases in animals that are line bred to my foundation stock.

If you have only fed BARF for 10 years and you haven't had a case of demodex for 20 years...how do you figure it was diet related?

[glendabenda]

Peach had mange and also a skin infection, antibiotics for 4 weeks and a course of Ivomec. This certainly didn't cost $500 about $250 -$300 and I'm in the country.

I have been using advocate since I got peach at 8 weeks and this wasn't enough to control the mange.

[dancinbcs]

I now believe it is probably more likely linked to diet rather than genetics as my foundation dog had demodex at 5 months, my foundation bitch had it when raising her first littter and some of this litter also had it at about 12 weeks. More than twenty years later with several generations all descended from these original dogs I have never had another case. The only thing that has changed is that I have fed a natural BARF diet for over 10 years now so diet may well be the culprit. If it was genetic I would still be getting cases in animals that are line bred to my foundation stock.

;) If you have only fed BARF for 10 years and you haven't had a case of demodex for 20 years...how do you figure it was diet related?

Fair comment but over the 10 or so years in between I gradually changed what I was feeding, first eliminating anything with colouring and gradually moving to a more natural diet. Overall the skin of my dogs consistantly improved with each diet change until I eventually ended up feeding all BARF. Those early dogs of mine also had various allergy problems that are supposedly "genetic" as well but these skin problems have disappeared completely in my later generations. The only skin problems I have had in the past 15 years is itching in my current dogs when I used the heartworm vaccine. Since going back to monthly tablets this problem has also disappeared.

I used to have a wonderful vet years ago who believed that nearly all skin problems could be cured by taking the dog off commercial dog food. If possible he would get the owner to try a diet change, eliminating any commercial food for a month before starting any treatment. Most of his patients needed no other treatment but if they were tearing themselves apart with an allergy he would give a cortisone shot to calm things down before trying the diet change.

[~Anne~]

I used to have a wonderful vet years ago who believed that nearly all skin problems could be cured by taking the dog off commercial dog food. If possible he would get the owner to try a diet change, eliminating any commercial food for a month before starting any treatment. Most of his patients needed no other treatment but if they were tearing themselves apart with an allergy he would give a cortisone shot to calm things down before trying the diet change.

Interesting, but it doesn't resolve many diet related allergies though and the thought process is flawed. There seems to be a false belief that commercial foods are what cause dogs to itch. It is actually what the commercial foods are made up of that are found to be the allergen in a lot of cases, and the main culprits are various protein sources. Protein is also in barf and raw diets.

I do agree though that overall, a fresh diet is far better than one that is high in preservatives and fillers however for both man and animal.

I still remain unconvinced tha a diet change would do anything for demodectic mange on the whole.

[Erny]

I still remain unconvinced tha a diet change would do anything for demodectic mange on the whole.

If the diet change (including beneficial additives) was something which more strongly supported the immune system (or conversely, didn't compromise it), isn't that what it would be about for demodectic mange (and a whole host of other things)?

Edited August 9, 2009 by Erny

[~Anne~]

I still remain unconvinced tha a diet change would do anything for demodectic mange on the whole.

If the diet change (including beneficial additives) was something which more strongly supported the immune system (or conversely, didn't compromise it), isn't that what it would be about for demodectic mange (and a whole host of other things)?

Absolutely, but I am talking cure which is why I said 'on the whole'. I am a firm believer that a good diet helps all manner of things, but diet doesn't cause mange nor will it cure it.

It seems to me that everything wrong with dogs is thought to be because of 'commercial foods'. This doesn't fit in with the fact that many, many dogs live full and healthy lives in commercial foods.

Edited August 10, 2009 by PugRescueSydney

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Demodectic Mange is a condition that Boston Terriers can have more frequently than the rest of the dog population. i am on another forum specific to this breed and this issue is discussed at length as many rescue Bostons have this the consensus is that it could be genetic. Dogs with mange may have an inherited (genetic) or acquired immune defect that fails to keep the mite numbers in check.

here is some info:

CAN THE PUP BE BRED LATER?

Sometimes the puppy with localized demodicosis was obtained for breeding purposes. The current recommendation is not to treat these puppies so that we can determine if the condition will stay localized and resolve or if it will generalize. If it stays localized and eventually resolves without treatment, the animal is still a candidate for breeding. If the condition generalizes to cover the entire body, the animal should be sterilized.

All dogs raised normally by their mothers possess this mite as mites are transferred from mother to pup via cuddling during the first few days of life. Most dogs live in harmony with their mites, never suffering any consequences from being parasitized. If, however, conditions change to upset the natural equilibrium (such as some kind of suppression of the dog's immune system), the Demodex mites may "gain the upper hand." The mites proliferate and can cause serious skin disease.

Demodectic mange (unlike Sarcoptic mange) is not considered a contagious disease and isolation of affected dogs is generally not considered necessary. That said, there are some circumstances under which the mites could spread from one dog to another. Current thinking is that mites actually can be transferred from one dog to another but as long as the dog is healthy, the mites simply add into the dog's natural mite population and no skin disease results.

A large percentage tend to self-cure when they reach immunologic maturity which may range from 8 months to 3 years of age, depending on the breed. It is estimated that 90% of pups affected will improve naturally if given supportive care. The 10% which are considered to have generalized mange should be considered to be immunologically crippled but can be made symptomatically better by using treatments to kill the mite population, and thereby lessening the incidence of bacterial infections.

now from the forum overseas, many vets seem to immediately think the dog has allergies and are treated for this and there is no effect on the mange. most do try to put their dogs on a better diet because this should help the dogs immune system become stronger.

i have heard of the following being used to treat (but some may not be available in australia):

Ivermectin is a broad spectrum anti-parasite medication (however, some this is not used in some breeds, ie collies), melatonin, AMITRAZ (MITABAN) DIPS (not for toy breeds or young dogs), Interceptor, Goodwinol Ointment, Clavamox, bath with iodine shampoo and then spray them with 5% iodine spray everyday till it gets better, ProMeris.

also, i think one of the pug rescues had a pug with really bad mange so search for that post and maybe there will be something there.

good luck