Ptolomy Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Ptolomy, is it Beans that has the injury niggles? No - she is as fit as a fiddle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Ptolomy, is it Beans that has the injury niggles? No - she is as fit as a fiddle Give Ptolomy another 12 months and she will have broken her as well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 ...I like the "steady feet" game that I picked up at Sue Hogben's seminar. It's not the easiest thing to describe - much easier to demonstrate...however... Initially trained in the sit position. Ask dog to sit but otherwise keep mouth SHUT (hardest bit ). Have one hand full of small pieces of yummy food. Slowly bring once piece of food with other hand towards dog's nose/mouth. Keep your eye on the dog's FEET. If the dog's feet remain perfectly still, move the food very rapidly into the dog's mouth (yum!) Make it harder. If the dog gets up or moves a paw, do NOT say a word (!!!!) - just fly the food rapidly away from the dog. Don't make it too hard or too easy. Gradually ask for more from the dog and bring the food in from every angle - above, below, on the side, behind. Zig knows the game now and my expectation that he doesn't lean towards anything but looks me directly in the eye - he's very funny The dog learns quickly that it's about cause and effect - then progress to the stand and start easy again, progressing to standing over your dog eventually and not having them flinch. Eventually have others approaching the dog and they get the food for staying still and looking at you. When Zig does a stand for exam, his whole body bends and leans and wags whilst he greets the judge but he never moves a foot :D Also great for building confidence for sit stays and food refusal (should you choose to do that one). After going to Sue H's Camp Tailwaggers seminar this year, I used this with a puppy class one day when I had just a few pups indoors, because it was so cold ouit. One was a baby Dane, and he cottoned on pretty quickly. You could actually see the muscles in his thighs working as he glued his butt to the floor so nothing would move. Lovely. So, now I need to do much more practice with this, in sit, stand and down, with my little big man, Rory, for whom stay is very much a work in progress concept. Actually, he's starting to get sit and down - need more work on duration - and he kind of gets stand stay - but now I'm working on getting him to keep his feet still as I move to go round the back. I'm thinking I should just take maybe one step down the side at a time, and get success there, before taking another step etc. etc. - what do people think? And my goal for the Christmas break, when I won't be working, is to actually do some training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 How many of you feed your dogs prior to trialling or training???and your reason behind doing this is...... I don't. I tend to feed the day before the trial and then sometimes after the trial she'll get dinner if I remember. I don't reward with food at all but I find dogs tend to work better if they haven't got a lot of food in their tummies! Kind of like it's hard to go for a run/exercise with too much food in our stomachs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivsky Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 How many of you feed your dogs prior to trialling or training???and your reason behind doing this is...... Never feed prior to training (but they will have had breakfast that day) and give a small meal before leaving for a trial mainly because it may be a long wait until you get in the ring and I know I find it hard to concentrate and function properly myself if I'm hungry so it's really to make me feel better more than having any firm theory behind it :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I never feed my food driven dog the night before a trial. I have tended to give him just one little piece of cooked steak just before we bo into the ring to get his senses working. I will give my prey driven dog dinner as normal tonight (trialling tomorrow night.) Will not feed her till we get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Mine all get fed before training - religiously at 4pm - they have me that well trained - poor form isn't it - the ones coming training will just get a small meal - the rest of the meal they receive as treats. Blaize is the only one that I wouldn't feed on the day of a trial (but usually end up doing so anyway because I feel sorry for her) - all the others will get a small breakfast or dinner. Why...... Because otherwise they are so frantic that it is ugly - very ugly ;) Its like working a dog with energizer batteries in and no self control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 I like the "steady feet" game that I picked up at Sue Hogben's seminar. It's not the easiest thing to describe - much easier to demonstrate...however...So, now I need to do much more practice with this, in sit, stand and down, with my little big man, Rory, for whom stay is very much a work in progress concept. Actually, he's starting to get sit and down - need more work on duration - and he kind of gets stand stay - but now I'm working on getting him to keep his feet still as I move to go round the back. I'm thinking I should just take maybe one step down the side at a time, and get success there, before taking another step etc. etc. - what do people think? And my goal for the Christmas break, when I won't be working, is to actually do some training. Tassie - you would think that with all Rory's showing the stand stay should be his strongest Does he have steady feet when you bring food towards him from all directions no matter where you are standing? You need this before commencing walking around him. Must also ask if you have a release word? From there you progress to food on the ground, food being thrown past the dog, toys being dropped and thrown, then not moving to oppositional reflex, then introduce people walking in. If he can not move after all this - then walking around him should be a breeze ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) Rivsky I did try that at training one night and it was a diasaster. I cut down the number of treats she gets before going in two one or two. Ptolomy - yep I have tried spins, hand touches you name it Ness goes nope I am not getting into that game at all. I tried that setting up a post without having treats on me and I think from memory I got around 6 seconds and that was after a time out for her deciding to switch off immediately. She is just way to smart for her own good - ARGH!!!!! Another noob here so stop me if I'm making a bad suggestion ;) Do you ever put the food down and then release her to it? That way when you're trialling it will be no different to a training session, you just put the food down in front of the dog before you go in the ring and then release her to it when you're finished. And, she won't lose drive at the start peg if you don't have food on you. How many of you feed your dogs prior to trialling or training???and your reason behind doing this is...... My dogs are fed in the morning and I take Daisy out to train when I get home from work at night, I feed her dinner after training not before. We won't be trialling till early next year but I will fast her before each trial. I love having an energizer beagle Edited November 23, 2009 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Yep she gets worked for jackpot containers and it still very hit and miss . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Yep she gets worked for jackpot containers and it still very hit and miss . Do you use the same system for training, the same conditions you would have at a trial? It took me ages to get Daisy to a point where she would switch on to the level of drive I wanted every time we trained, even with food in my hand I would go back to basics and do baby steps, like another poster suggested (forget who it was, sorry). Get her focus, release her to her food reward. Get her focus, take a few steps, release her etc. Mix it up so you are releasing her to the food before her focus has a chance to wane. Although I'm sure you probably do lots of stuff like that already ;) If I take Daisy out for training and can't get her to focus and switch into drive after giving the ready to work command then I run away with her reward and the game is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) Yeah do all that - I will be honest and say I mainly posted it as I figured others might have a similar problem and it might help somebody who was too shy to ask . I know what her short comings are and at this point in the game I am not sure I can do a whole lot. She is getting on and been retrained so many times. She does me well most of the time so I best not complain. She might end up being retired next year will see how things stand in the new year. She also has injury worries so I might end up giving it away. ETA. No huski one of my short comings is that I don't train and trial the same way - well I do better then I did but still not the same. Sorry Ptolomy I do try and I promise to stay honest with Kenzie its just hard with Ness. Edited November 23, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Hope you don't feel picked on Ness! Tassie I would stand in front of Rorie and move my feet to the left and right first. When you do this you sort of have to keep your shoulders still. Once he was ok with that sort of movement then I would start to move around behind him. Borders are pesky with stands though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Nah JulesP I am use to it - Ptolomy has picked on me plenty in the past hehehehe. I knew what was coming when I posted my "trouble" I have run it by her in the past to as I said it was in part to help the discussion along. I am well aware of her weakness and look back and think how forgiving she has been to get as far as she had with me making a million errors all the way along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 It would be boring if they were all little robots hey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Yeah probably it would - Kenzie is throwing up enough challenges of her own to keep me on my toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casima Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 How many of you feed your dogs prior to trialling or training???and your reason behind doing this is...... I try not to feed my dogs before agility training/trialling unless they have a few hours digestion time as I worry about bloat, otherwise its not an issue as most of our rewards are toys and they are skinny hungry dogs all the time. I like the "steady feet" game that I picked up at Sue Hogben's seminar. It's not the easiest thing to describe - much easier to demonstrate...however...So, now I need to do much more practice with this, in sit, stand and down, with my little big man, Rory, for whom stay is very much a work in progress concept. Actually, he's starting to get sit and down - need more work on duration - and he kind of gets stand stay - but now I'm working on getting him to keep his feet still as I move to go round the back. I'm thinking I should just take maybe one step down the side at a time, and get success there, before taking another step etc. etc. - what do people think? Does he have steady feet when you bring food towards him from all directions no matter where you are standing? You need this before commencing walking around him. Must also ask if you have a release word? From there you progress to food on the ground, food being thrown past the dog, toys being dropped and thrown, then not moving to oppositional reflex, then introduce people walking in. If he can not move after all this - then walking around him should be a breeze Thanks guys for more info on the steady feet game! we did alittle yesterday and today, I ended up putting her up on a high table to start with so I could see her feet better, and was still getting alittle back foot movment, however we seem to have fixed it with some well timed reward removal combined with gently replacing her moved foot by hand, she seems to be aware of those back feet now and I can't get her to move them no matter what I do with treats so I will move on to some of your other proofing suggestions now before working on distance and more exciting distractions. Great stuff!! thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Thanks from me too to Ptolomy and JulesP. I need to do lots more of the steady feet game. And that kind of proofing - thanks Ptolomy. Well - let's be honest - I need to do more training. I've been slack - partly because I didn't want to muck up his show handling (though his handler has always said it wouldn't - they can do both), and partly because he's been such a good boy that I haven't needed to . about the showing, Ptolomy - I think that is a little bit of the problem. When he's standing in a line up, his handler is normally out in front - and when the judge comes in to exam, Rory is being held - mainly so the judges don't get licked to death - not really (well maybe really) - it's just the way his handlers handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Great to get some feedback on some of the ideas being offered. Last night i took Beans training and was throwing food around left right and centre and dropping her - interesting that because I was asking for quick drops and the fact that on the move she doesn't step sideways I managed to get quite a few good ones in Sometimes I would pretend to throw the food and then when she looked back I would give her the down signal and she would drop on the spot without stepping sideways Is the problem fixed - no way - but we did have some progress. and she loved playing this game. Meanwhile dog in the box has gone pearshaped - so back to the drawing board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivsky Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Hoping for some ideas and suggestions on fronts and presents please How did you teach them and do you think you're dog actually understands where the position is? Riv's fronts/presents have been bugging me for a while now and I know I'm a big part of the problem by giving him all sorts of double signals to get him into the correct position but thinking more about it I also don't believe he understands where "front" actually is - to me it seems like he's just randomly picking a spot somewhere in front of me and sitting. I've been doing a lot of the go through game from the Chris Bach stuff with him and the 2 food game into front position and scoot sit stuff which helps in that context but so far haven't been able to get it to carry over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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