Breeders Apinions

[Rain]

I am curious as to why some dog breeds are not as popular as others, especially the rarer breeds.

As breeders what are your thoughts on why the Pyrenean Mastiff isnt more popular, there is one registered breeder and the breed has been in australia since 2005? i think.

When importing a new breed into the country how do you know what will succeed here and what wont?

Do you think the Spanish Mastiff will do well here or fade in the background?

Thanks

[Gigit]

I am curious as to why some dog breeds are not as popular as others, especially the rarer breeds.

As breeders what are your thoughts on why the Pyrenean Mastiff isnt more popular, there is one registered breeder and the breed has been in australia since 2005? i think.

When importing a new breed into the country how do you know what will succeed here and what wont?

Do you think the Spanish Mastiff will do well here or fade in the background?

Thanks

Thats like asking how long is a piece of string?

Personal preference is a vast and often very fickle thing. All new things take time for people to come around too. Dog breeds are no exception.

I wouldnt import a breed based on 'will they do well here" Id import because its what I want to do and what I felt for the breed. Dogs are not "keep up the Jones items". Go with your feelings.

[SwaY]

Rare to some is not rare to others.

It maybe rare to see one in the show ring, does not mean with the amount of puppies registered they are in fact rare.

Look at Greyhounds dime a dozen, very few in the show ring.

This link shows you how many of each breed was registered http://www.ankc.org.au/National-Registration-Statistics.aspx

[Kustali]

I do agree with you there gigit but even though you might love a certain breed you have to think too if you do bring in a rare breed wether you will be able to sell those puppies when you have a litter.

A rare breed that not many take an interest in would be a hard thing to get into.

I have Mastiffs and although not really considered 'rare' there aren't many breeders, but there are always homes for the puppies, more homes than there are babies.

Going off track there......i don't really know why some breeds aren't as popular, maybe they are more hard work than others, (as a breed, to house, to show and also to produce from) maybe they are just not as well known as others?

Are you interested in the Spanish Mastiff? I don't know anything about them...but they look interesting

[BJean]

I am curious as to why some dog breeds are not as popular as others, especially the rarer breeds.

As breeders what are your thoughts on why the Pyrenean Mastiff isnt more popular, there is one registered breeder and the breed has been in australia since 2005? i think.

When importing a new breed into the country how do you know what will succeed here and what wont?

Do you think the Spanish Mastiff will do well here or fade in the background?

Thanks

Some rare breeds are just not for the main populace. Although they may be nice to look at etc

they could have temperament / breed quirks that discount them from the 'average home'.

From a pastoral breed's perspective, I think new breeds need a working backbone, they have to be viable in the Australian environment.

An example of an imported rare breed that was not viable, is the komondor.

It *may* be imported again for pet followers, but it will never fulfill its rightful role as stock guardian in Australia, as its coat is not compatible with the Australian environment.

It also depends on how you define 'fade into the background',

being popular or broadly accepted is not necessarily a good thing. A breed doesn't need a huge following to surivive and thrive; it needs good breeders, good homes and a specialised purpose.

If a breed has a working background / specialised purpose there will always be homes for the puppies.

I dont equate 'breed success' with 'breed popularity'

[Rain]

Thanks for that, maybe some of my words were not the best choice.

So the breeders that imported the Komondor did they slowly faze the dogs out as in stop breeding? as you say they werent viable for our environment.

This is what i was getting at with the Pyrenean Mastiff.

Im not interested in the Spanish Mastiff just curious why say the Tibetan Mastiff is more 'popular' than say the Pyrenean or Spanish Mastiff. Whether Spanish or Pyrenean will florish as a breed here so to say.

Am i makeing sense?

Thats it Hannah what happens to the pups? I thought some breeders may have some knowledge about them being in the dog scene. Thats ok i was just asking and learning even if i look stupid!

[BJean]

Thanks for that, maybe some of my words were not the best choice.

So the breeders that imported the Komondor did they slowly faze the dogs out as in stop breeding? as you say they werent viable for our environment.

This is what i was getting at with the Pyrenean Mastiff.

Im not interested in the Spanish Mastiff just curious why say the Tibetan Mastiff is more 'popular' than say the Pyrenean or Spanish Mastiff. Whether Spanish or Pyrenean will florish as a breed here so to say.

Am i makeing sense?

Thats it Hannah what happens to the pups? I thought some breeders may have some knowledge about them being in the dog scene. Thats ok i was just asking and learning even if i look stupid!

The breeders who imported the Komondor I suppose slowly fazed them out / stopped breeding

but it was a cumulative effect over time

rather than a clear decision -

there just was no other breeding options ...

and when a new male and female pair were imported

all the previous komondors had been desexed in pet homes.

Also the coat needed extra care and for what should be an outside hardy breed, the good ol Australia 'bur' wreaked havoc with the Kom's coat. imo a breed like the kom needs to be successful on Australian farms if it is to maintain a viable gene pool to draw from, the koms coat prevented this.

We were going to have a litter of koms last year but the coat issue was something I could not get past

I think probably the SM and PM mastiff need to differentiate themselves more. lol maybe they have and Im just an ignoramus

The TM has been in Australia for a lot longer than either the SM or PM, they have a breed profile that extends well beyond their ownership. Before potential homes can seek out a breed, they have to know the breed exists and what it does, better/worse than other comparable breeds

nb: I can't meaningfully comment on whether the PM or SM will flourish as breeds in Australia, as I don't know the nuances of either breed well enough.

Edited March 4, 2010 by lilli

[Rain]

Thanks for your reply lilli, very interesting inregards to the Komondor. I can imagine the coat would be alot of hard work for a working breed.

They make the cutest pups though dont they

[Libertybrook]

do you mean dogs that are already here?

or breeds that you would like to import?

maybe they are rare here but not so much overseas,

simplistically you also have to consider the size of the gene pool you start off with of the original dogs imported as well,

Black Russians for example since they were first imported in 2001 the number of registered live puppies totals 120

from 2001 - 2009.(I think roughly)

my girl was from a singleton litter in 2008, in that year I think there were only 12 registered puppies born.

I can only go on registered litters I have no idea if there are a number of other breeds of dogs whom puppies were never registered.

some breeds are known for having small litters of one or two puppies,

Not all puppies of any breed will be suitable to breed from, so that limits your breeding pool, therefore number of future puppies on the ground for sale.

and because there may not be many around breeders tend to keep more puppies for themselves, rather than sell them on.

you have to look at the huge import costs time and effort of frozen semen, new dogs/bloodlines etc and some breeds just maybe die out because of the ongoing costs to keep a breed growing can be astronomical,

and also not all breeds are for everyone, they may not suit the Australian way of life etc,

so popularity also comes into it I think.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Libertybrook

[Pulilover]

I believe the success of a rare breed really depends on the dedication of the breeders and the people that are passionate about the breed.

I am sorry Lilli but I disagree with the statement that the fact that they are not suitable to Australian conditions contributes to the un'success' of a particular breed.

Most pet owners these days do not use the dog for a particular working purpose, but they have usually chosen that breed of dog for specific characteristics which can be adapted to the average family life. Lets face it, most exhibitors and breeders don't 'work'

their dogs either.

The Puli is a classic example. They have a distinct temperament/personality which many people are drawn to. Yes the coat is probably unsuitable to paddock conditions in Oz but the majority of owners are not going to work the dog in a paddock.

I know many pet owners of my breed who absolutely adore them and would not own any other breed but would not in a million years imagine taking the dog out to work amongst stock.

The fact that people don't work their dogs does not mean they are unsuitable or in my opinion contribute to the success of a breed.

There will always be die hard fans of particular breeds but I don't think one needs to be working a breed to make it successful.

I guess it depends on how you define successful - if it is pure numbers you are mistaken. Perhaps in the breed you are thinking of, numbers are low b ut quality of breed standard, type and temperament are very good. In my opinion, it doesn't matter about numbers registered, but the quality of the existing population.

[BJean]

I believe the success of a rare breed really depends on the dedication of the breeders and the people that are passionate about the breed.

I am sorry Lilli but I disagree with the statement that the fact that they are not suitable to Australian conditions contributes to the un'success' of a particular breed.Most pet owners these days do not use the dog for a particular working purpose, but they have usually chosen that breed of dog for specific characteristics which can be adapted to the average family life. Lets face it, most exhibitors and breeders don't 'work'

their dogs either.

The Puli is a classic example. They have a distinct temperament/personality which many people are drawn to. Yes the coat is probably unsuitable to paddock conditions in Oz but the majority of owners are not going to work the dog in a paddock.

I know many pet owners of my breed who absolutely adore them and would not own any other breed but would not in a million years imagine taking the dog out to work amongst stock.

The fact that people don't work their dogs does not mean they are unsuitable or in my opinion contribute to the success of a breed.

There will always be die hard fans of particular breeds but I don't think one needs to be working a breed to make it successful.

whether they be a pet or working dog - for pastoral guardian breeds whose life is an outside dog and often in a rural setting - their success is dependent on the breed being viable in the enivironment.

What appeals to most homes interested in LGD breeds is their hardy physical constitution and minimal coat care requirements, often it suits a busy outdoor lifestyle. Maybe they have horses to prepare or other pet animals to attend to, they dont want to have to allocate time each day just to have to go through their dog's coat.

So pastoral guardian breeds that want a place as pets or working dogs in Australia, need to be suited to outdoor living in Australia.

Yes pastoral herding breeds of working heritatge, still test their instincts / drives through other means like agility, tracking, obedience titles etc and are often kept as pets very well in the inner and outersuburbs, and never need to venture into long grass or paddocks

but large pastoral LGD breeds (like Spanish Mastiff, Komondor) need to be suitable for the requirements and conditions of the homes they would be marketed to.

If looking for a pet dog to join them on their property, and say choosing between Anatolian, Maremma, Pyrenean, Central Asian, Komondor - most are put off by having to go through the Komondor's coat every day searching for burs that work their way up their coat and into the soft skin beneath. (It was thought that the kom's coat woud protect it from the Australian burs, prickles /grass seeds and also offer a level of protection against snake bite but it turned out to be the opposite.)

Notwithstanding that breeder dedication and passion for the breed, wont change breed circumstance, that there will always be puppies not suited to suburban homes - so these puppies must be viable in an Australian farm environment.

A pastoral guardian / LGD breed cannot have success in Australia if it never finds its way into suitable pet/working homes, because those homes always choose another breed of similar temperament traits and suitablity, but with a lot less coat maintenance.

If something gets stuck in the Koms coat and you have to cut it out, it takes years to grow back so there goes the possibiility of showing. Most maremmas, anatolians, central asians can be show dog or rural family pet with ease. A kom running through a muddy dam would be a disaster; you just couldn't let them out if you wanted to show the dog or keep them in full coat (a physical trait of the breed that is the appeal factor). Most owners of LGD breeds are on at least an acre, and often with other animals etc so to have to wrap up one of your dogs in cotton wool just to show it, or keep it as a family/property companion/guardian is not going to appeal to many.

Its not so much about having dogs that work or dont work, but whether a breed can be the dog it is meant to be and admired for being

Edited March 6, 2010 by lilli

[Fit for a King]

The rarity of the breed may also be influenced by the breeder's willingness to breed just because someone else wants one...that is - they take long periods of time to accumulate people they think are suitable for the breed - not breeding because they have enough people wanting them.....with some breeds that is, IMO, very important as some breeds are not for the first time dog owner, inexperienced dog owner or owner unable to recognise the very specific needs some breeds have....

If that keeps the overall population iof the breed down that's the way it is.....