Dog Attack -> Potential Bsl Convert

[fbc]

After having first hand just dealt with a similar situation myself I think that councils need to take some more resposibilty as well.

I dont think it should be as easy as just declaring an area off lead. I think that maybe some supervision at least during high trafic times would be a great improvement. I also think that like KCC park there should be specific areas for smaller dogs as IMO alot of bigger dogs could cause harm or trauma to small dogs just in rough play unintentionally. Limiting the number of dogs allowed at 1 time & per handler would also be an idea to consider, perhaps even taking bookings for times allowed. I like the ideas of off-lead parks but there is still alot of work to go into getting the mix right IMO.

[whippets]

Lisa, Did you report the dog? You should because next time, next dog the outcome could be worse.

[blacklabrador]

I can't agree it's purely deed not breed when it comes to DA. Some breeds are more likely to be dog aggressive than others, it's RESPONSIBLE to admit that.

There needs to be more acknowledgment of this I believe. There are some breeds who when in then hands of dickheads, are more likely to end up with aggression problems.

[huski]

I can't agree it's purely deed not breed when it comes to DA. Some breeds are more likely to be dog aggressive than others, it's RESPONSIBLE to admit that.

There needs to be more acknowledgment of this I believe. There are some breeds who when in then hands of dickheads, are more likely to end up with aggression problems.

I agree, but even so, it is still entirely the responsibility of the owners to manage these dogs. In that instance, it is deed (irresponsible owner failing to control their dog) not breed.

[blacklabrador]

I can't agree it's purely deed not breed when it comes to DA. Some breeds are more likely to be dog aggressive than others, it's RESPONSIBLE to admit that.

There needs to be more acknowledgment of this I believe. There are some breeds who when in then hands of dickheads, are more likely to end up with aggression problems.

I agree, but even so, it is still entirely the responsibility of the owners to manage these dogs. In that instance, it is deed (irresponsible owner failing to control their dog) not breed.

So a combination of breed and deed? ie in the wrong hands, certain breeds of dogs are more likely to have issues?

[aussielover]

How scary for you! Obviously the dog should have been on the lead. However, I am surprised that the dog did not cause any serious injury. I would have expected at least a few puncture wounds. How long did it take you to get the dog off? I once saw an incident where it took over 30 mins to remove a pitbull from a staffy. Once they latch on, it can be pretty hard to get them off. I suppose that applies to any breed of large, strong dog though but I have only ever seen it with bull breeds.

I have met some lovely bull breed dogs as well as some really scary ones, so I can't say I support BSL. As many people have already mentioned it is the idiot owner who is really at fault, not the poor dog.

Anyway I hope your puppy is ok.

[stormie]

Well, if we can only have our dogs off-leash in our own back-yards, than people in the eastern suburbs shouldn't be allowed to have dogs because most of us don't have huge back-yards. I do not think that we should not be able to use any of the parks in the area. I don't think an acceptable solution is to consider all the parks off-limits, even for the adult dogs? I don't want anything to happen to my puppy, but to me that's like saying, oh, better home school the kids, and put them in bubbles because they might get hurt?

That's a bit over the top don't you think? I rarely take my dog to off leash parks and he rarely ventures into the backyard. I do, though, take him for a 2-3km walk/jog every day. If I want to let him have a big run, I take him up to the local school and let him have a play on the oval.

IMO, leash walking for exercise provides for a more stable mind. You can't really go wrong with a good long daily on lead walk - its good for you, its good for the dog and it enforces the pack mentality and leadership.

Edited April 3, 2010 by stormie

[Erny]

Well, if we can only have our dogs off-leash in our own back-yards, than people in the eastern suburbs shouldn't be allowed to have dogs because most of us don't have huge back-yards. I do not think that we should not be able to use any of the parks in the area. I don't think an acceptable solution is to consider all the parks off-limits, even for the adult dogs? I don't want anything to happen to my puppy, but to me that's like saying, oh, better home school the kids, and put them in bubbles because they might get hurt?

I think that's a bit of an over-reaction as well, LisaB85.

Why does your pup need a full off-leash area to have a run?

I go to off-lead areas now that my boy is older and does enjoy and benefit from a stretch of his legs and the freedom to sniff, course and investigate, but I do choose my times and places.

The point being at the moment is that you're taking your pup into a known uncontrolled environment, inside the most critically sensitive time of his life - not only mental-developmentally speaking, but also before he has completed vaccination. I did a lot of work and had a lot of fun (as did my boy) playing/training in the home-yard. We also spent a huge amount of time socialising/habituating to the outside world in areas that were not as highly populated by unknown dogs as public parks are. We also attended puppy school and met up with friends and their dogs.

People here are just cautioning you as to the reality of the problems that public parks may present to you and your pup, and pointing out that attending them isn't really a complete necessity, especially at your pup's young age.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Erny

[corrie]

Well, if we can only have our dogs off-leash in our own back-yards, than people in the eastern suburbs shouldn't be allowed to have dogs because most of us don't have huge back-yards. I do not think that we should not be able to use any of the parks in the area. I don't think an acceptable solution is to consider all the parks off-limits, even for the adult dogs? I don't want anything to happen to my puppy, but to me that's like saying, oh, better home school the kids, and put them in bubbles because they might get hurt?

That's a bit over the top don't you think? I rarely take my dog to off leash parks and he rarely ventures into the backyard. I do, though, take him for a 2-3km walk/jog every day. If I want to let him have a big run, I take him up to the local school and let him have a play on the oval.

IMO, leash walking for exercise provides for a more stable mind. You can't really go wrong with a good long daily on lead walk - its good for you, its good for the dog and it enforces the pack mentality and leadership.

I totally agree, Stormie.

OT but Orbit is so beautiful and one of my DOL faves.

[Kavik]

You are more than welcome to go to off leash parks if you wish. We are just pointing out the potential problems (which you have already encountered). With 2 of my dogs, you could not pay me to go to a crowded off leash area. My competing dog, while not dog aggressive, does not like dogs in his face and prefers to play/work with me, but will meet and greet polite dogs and then go on his way. I am glad I moved to a less populated area after being in Mosman with my parents, as it is easier to find quieter parks with less dogs to exercise my own dogs. It is harder to find quiet areas to exercise your dog in highly populated areas.

[stormie]

Well, if we can only have our dogs off-leash in our own back-yards, than people in the eastern suburbs shouldn't be allowed to have dogs because most of us don't have huge back-yards. I do not think that we should not be able to use any of the parks in the area. I don't think an acceptable solution is to consider all the parks off-limits, even for the adult dogs? I don't want anything to happen to my puppy, but to me that's like saying, oh, better home school the kids, and put them in bubbles because they might get hurt?

That's a bit over the top don't you think? I rarely take my dog to off leash parks and he rarely ventures into the backyard. I do, though, take him for a 2-3km walk/jog every day. If I want to let him have a big run, I take him up to the local school and let him have a play on the oval.

IMO, leash walking for exercise provides for a more stable mind. You can't really go wrong with a good long daily on lead walk - its good for you, its good for the dog and it enforces the pack mentality and leadership.

I totally agree, Stormie.

OT but Orbit is so beautiful and one of my DOL faves.

oh thank you, corrie! That's so lovely! You mustn't have seen many of his photos though

[Quickasyoucan]

I have never met a dog behaviourist (regardless of methods) who is a fan of off leash parks.

As for the parvo thing, a friend of mine had parvo with a pup recently, which survived, they also own a rottie and were advised by a specialist that black and tan dogs are more susceptible to parvo than others, this was a specialist vet that told them and I did google it and there appears to be quite a bit of literature that supports that.

If it were my dog I would:

a. not be having it anywhere near an off-leash dog park,

b. be wary of parvo and be avoiding off-leash for that reason too.

As for the BSL comment, I agree with Poodlefan about the irony given the OP's breed of choice, dobermans were the idiots breed of choice at one time - devils dogs I think that's what they were.

[mantis]

I have never met a dog behaviourist (regardless of methods) who is a fan of off leash parks.

As for the parvo thing, a friend of mine had parvo with a pup recently, which survived, they also own a rottie and were advised by a specialist that black and tan dogs are more susceptible to parvo than others, this was a specialist vet that told them and I did google it and there appears to be quite a bit of literature that supports that.

If it were my dog I would:

a. not be having it anywhere near an off-leash dog park,

b. be wary of parvo and be avoiding off-leash for that reason too.

As for the BSL comment, I agree with Poodlefan about the irony given the OP's breed of choice, dobermans were the idiots breed of choice at one time - devils dogs I think that's what they were.

Barkbusters do, when I employed them to help Kenny after his 3 attacks to get over his fear aggression, the first thing he did was take me & Kenny to an off lead park with about 50 dogs running loose, I didn't even let Kenny out of the car as he was already stressing seeing dogs running up to my car. Bloody idiot & they wouldn't refund the $200 I paid them, because I wouldn't follow what the moron wanted me to do.

[spottychick]

If I want to let him have a big run, I take him up to the local school and let him have a play on the oval.

IMO, leash walking for exercise provides for a more stable mind. You can't really go wrong with a good long daily on lead walk - its good for you, its good for the dog and it enforces the pack mentality and leadership.

Unfortunately it's not actually legal to take dogs to school parks - even when it's not school hours - and I've been told off about doing that on a couple of occassions.

It is very difficult in some places to find anywhere to let your dogs off-lead which is why off-lead parks have been set up. If you have dogs like mine they absolutely NEED to have a fast run and play off-lead so while a walk on the lead is nice - it's clearly not enough.

I don't know the answer but I don't think it's just to have responsible dog owners NOT going to off-lead parks and never letting their dogs off-lead or allowing them to socialise with other dogs. I believe they do need to be socialised - this in turn makes DA less likely (providing the socialisation goes well of course).

This is why I'm looking for an acreage here in Tassie for my next home. Probably won't get one on my budget but it would be the best solution. *sigh*

[blacklabrador]

Well, if we can only have our dogs off-leash in our own back-yards, than people in the eastern suburbs shouldn't be allowed to have dogs because most of us don't have huge back-yards. I do not think that we should not be able to use any of the parks in the area. I don't think an acceptable solution is to consider all the parks off-limits, even for the adult dogs? I don't want anything to happen to my puppy, but to me that's like saying, oh, better home school the kids, and put them in bubbles because they might get hurt?

That's a bit over the top don't you think? I rarely take my dog to off leash parks and he rarely ventures into the backyard. I do, though, take him for a 2-3km walk/jog every day. If I want to let him have a big run, I take him up to the local school and let him have a play on the oval.

IMO, leash walking for exercise provides for a more stable mind. You can't really go wrong with a good long daily on lead walk - its good for you, its good for the dog and it enforces the pack mentality and leadership.

But you know that Dobe puppies shouldn't be leash walked - the same rules apply to them as to Danes while they are growing.

[ruthless]

You mustn't have seen many of his photos though

[stormie]

Well, if we can only have our dogs off-leash in our own back-yards, than people in the eastern suburbs shouldn't be allowed to have dogs because most of us don't have huge back-yards. I do not think that we should not be able to use any of the parks in the area. I don't think an acceptable solution is to consider all the parks off-limits, even for the adult dogs? I don't want anything to happen to my puppy, but to me that's like saying, oh, better home school the kids, and put them in bubbles because they might get hurt?

That's a bit over the top don't you think? I rarely take my dog to off leash parks and he rarely ventures into the backyard. I do, though, take him for a 2-3km walk/jog every day. If I want to let him have a big run, I take him up to the local school and let him have a play on the oval.

IMO, leash walking for exercise provides for a more stable mind. You can't really go wrong with a good long daily on lead walk - its good for you, its good for the dog and it enforces the pack mentality and leadership.

But you know that Dobe puppies shouldn't be leash walked - the same rules apply to them as to Danes while they are growing.

Dane puppies can be leashed walked. It's just all in moderation. 5mins up the road and back isn't going to hurt them.

Oops didn't know that about the schools! Local dogs are always at our local school - will keep a look out for people to get us in trouble!

[Danois]

Local school around here leaves the gates open for people with dogs. The privilege is not abused (re leaving poo).

Also agree with stormie's comments re on-leading walking. Short gentle walks for dane puppies is perfectly fine - taking them for a rapid 2km walk on the other hand is not so good.

[Longcoat]

name='hortfurball' date='3rd Apr 2010 - 04:28 AM' post='4435234']

'jules1' post='4433954' date='2nd Apr 2010 - 10:52 AM']As far as this incident with the "bully" type dog and BSL etc - I can only agree with the majority of others that there is no such thing as a bad breed - only bad owners. Any dog can be dog/people aggressive if it is not raised correctly

I just have to say that sometimes some of us end up with DA dogs not because of being bad owners or raising our dogs incorrectly but because of bad experiences our dogs have had as youngsters. It is all too easy for a good dog to become a not so good dog through bad experiences unfortunately. I started out with two dogs who were absolutely fine with other dogs and through no fault of theirs or mine (except for the mishandling mentioned below), now they are both reactive with certain types of dogs. I am aware of which they will react to and which they won't so can have controlled one on one play dates but other than that, I see it as my duty as a responsible dog owner to never let them off leash in public, and even on leash, to take a wide berth around the type of dog that I believe might pose a problem.

I agree with Hortfurball regarding DA dogs which is not always met by good management and responsible ownership that prevents a DA dog and is more from good luck that a particular dog is not DA. We had for example, a Lab, Flatcoat and 4 Goldens raised a particular way from puppies, none were the slightest bit DA and all friendly and good natured. The first GSD raised exactly the same way was a mongrel of a thing wanting to attack every strange dog he saw We had to handle this dog completely differently to our previous 6 Retrievers to get a handle on his DA disposition. DA was nothing we ever had to consider or deal with in the Retrievers and was only good luck that none were DA. Some people I am sure would have thought we were terrible owners back then with our GSD bouncing and lunging aggressively on the end of the leash. Take out our Golden for a walk, different ball game, wonderful owners with him???. Some dogs have DA tendencies, some don't

Edited April 3, 2010 by Longcoat

[newfsie]

i must admit that the dogs at the Kennel Club are most likely all vaccinated.

OT

Newfsie - it's completely a personal decision but the danger of parvo lies much more in the ground than it does in other dogs. Socialising a puppy with vaccinated adults may be giving you a false sense of security as the ground can harbour parvo for several years (ten I believe). Most obedience grounds are free-for-all grassy areas which are frequented by offlead neighbourhood or stray dogs at other times.

I know when I got my first puppy I took him to the beach at 9 weeks thinking that parvo couldn't survive on the surface sand after the sun and the salt water etc. I later used to date a veterinary epidemiologist who let me know how wrong I was! Parvo is so extremely hardy that the beach is also a great place to pick it up unfortunately.

No our ground are locked. six foot fence and only Club members are allowed on the grounds...........i have no false sense of security, i know the chances, but to me socialization is important. my pups are on Vit C, Vit E and salmon oil from the day they arrive with me and also some Bache flower preventatives and some other herbal stuff. As i have said, I have been lucky and not had any issues. When Katy was ten weeks there was a large amount of dogs that got kennel cough in our area. We were one of the few, my three, who did not get it. Again lucky or our alternative way of prevention. Mind you I would never go to an open park, where dogs roam. the vet is really the worst place to go with a pup.