A Good Enough Reason Not To Feed Dogs A Commercial Diet ?

[OSoSwift]

Let me just say that until you have read Dr Billinghursts books and have fully committed to the natural way of feeding, then don't knock it.

I have his book, I have read it from cover to cover and I got it over 15 years ago from memory.

I have tried it on four different dogs, two did fine, the otehrs did not. I have one now who does not cope at all well with a raw diet and can only have certain bones and a small quantity of. He has actually ended up having to have antibiotics as a result of raw meat.

My dogs do very well on what they eat, I WILL NEVER tell anyone that I know that one diet is better than another - all dogs are different. I get really sick and tired of people telling me that dogs fed anything than BARF are being poisoned, people are evil for feeding it and they are killing theri dogs - absolute rubbish. These people are no better than any other brainwashed person trying to ear bash people into their beliefs.

My Dobe died at 8 and a half and I can assure you that her diet played no roll in that. She was a dog that I relgiously followed a raw diet for and it didn't work. She thrived on a good quality commercial diet. My aged Stafford was the same, he has that many environmental allergies that finding out what protein sources he was allergic to helped, but by no means stopped him having skin issues.

Fanatics in any area are bloody annoying to me.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Rommi n Lewis

[KitKat]

I've read the books, followed it to the letter and it didn't work for my mob either. I have no issues with BARF/Raw but i won't feed it to my dogs - only because they've not done well on it. I don't knock that way of feeding either - I also work (casually as 2nd job) in a store that stocks both a variety of kibbles as well as two types of BARF. I give people information on both types of feeding as it's a fair way of doing it and they can decide which way they want to feed their dogs/cats.

Give people the information and let them decide and try for themselves - stop trying to force feed it to them...

[OSoSwift]

Give people the information and let them decide and try for themselves - stop trying to force feed it to them...

Could not agree more !

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

<snip>

Fanatics in any area are bloody annoying to me.

totally agree with this

[rubiton]

Well said Rommi & Lewis and kitkat. BARF seems to include a lot of fatty food (eg meaty bones) which may be fine for some dogs but many others it is not suited to. I too get sick of the commercial food=maccas crap as its untrue however some commercial foods dont suit some dogs whereas others will suit the same dogs.

If someone does the research and tries barf and it works all good BUT equally people who go with the various commercial diets and there dogs do just as well doesnt mean they are 'lucky' it simply means teh dog does well on what its fed.

Our dog loves spaghetti added to her evening meal - vet says spaghetti adds carbs and is good but she only gets it added for a day or so after we've had it. (pasta only)

[poodlefan]

I was a hard line BARFer for many years although I resisted the urge to preach to others for the most part.

My youngest dog stopped that - no matter what I did he refused point blank to eat my BARF mix.

So now all my dogs get RMBs and kibble. They're not dead yet. :D

[OSoSwift]

I don't mind what otehrs do and I think it is great that so many people put so much time, research and effort into feeding their dogs.

I just don't like the - You can have an opinion even if you are wrong fanatics, telling me I am killing a dog who I cannot feed a raw diet to.

PF Howie looks far from even slowing down! Can't be doing him much harm at all! Haven't seen a photo of the handsome boy for a while!

[poodlefan]

PF Howie looks far from even slowing down! Can't be doing him much harm at all! Haven't seen a photo of the handsome boy for a while!

I'll need to take some new shots for the Whippet thread. Howie turns two tomorrow!

I may feed kibble but I've done my homework and feed what I consider to be the best available.

[PeiPei]

My dogs health encouraged me to become more educated about animal nutrition, and it has ended up with me becoming a fully qualified small animal nutritionist.

My year long course taught me so much about dogs and their correct nutrition requirements.

What course is this, Peipei? Just asking since the only qualified small animal nutritionists I know are vets with postgraduate qualifications, but that doesn't sound like what you did. Thanks.

The course was done with the 'National College of Traditional Medicine' info below.

This was one of the core modules in order to achieve my Small Animal Naturopathy Diploma.

In my first year of vet nursing and also while working for a very large pet supply company, I was trained in commercial dog food by - Eukanuba, Eagle Pak, Royal Canin, Science Diet and Advance.

Small Animal Nutrition Certificate

Having an understanding of canine & feline nutrition as it pertains to various stages of life is vital for the them to survive and thrive. The information contained in this course will assist you with your choice of meeting the special nutritional needs for dogs and cats on an individual basis.

Units

-Introduction to Species Appropriate Nutrition

-Commercial Pet Food

-What is in Pet Food

-Feeding Bones

-Feeding Muscle meat and Organ Meat

-Green Leafy Vegetables and Fruit

-Cereals & Grains

-Dairy Products, Eggs and Table Scraps

-Useful Additivies

-Pregnancy, Puppies and Kittens

-From Adulthood and Beyond

-Protecting your pet: Dangerous Foods & Chocolate Toxicity

Career Opportunities

This certificate is designed for the graduate to be equipped with knowledge as it pertains to nutrition for small animals for their own personal or professional use.

Award

Small Animal Nutrition Certificate

[megan_]

Geeze Moselle - did i actually read that you suggested those of us who don't have wads of money to throw around should own only a goldfish??

ETA - one of my guys is allergic to something in which he comes in contact to and or eats, we've changed diets, got him off certain meats - i've had him on Polaramine (and not it doesn't make him drowsy...which is a pity!) on a semi regular basis, i've changed his diet again - oddly enough right at the moment he is getting less raw then usual and an average kibble - but he is looking better then he has in a long time - perhaps it's just the change in season Normally they'd have nights when they gets bones, and other nights when they get kibble - or a bit of both.

The majority of people don't have wads of cash to throw around; I was more concerned with people that can only afford the very bare mininal of vet. care; having said that, there are people that are loaded with money and don't want to spend it.

Have you figured what it is that one of your guys is actually allergic to? is it contact allergy or is it related to food?

I must say that I agree with R&L and Jaxx'sBuddy's posts - I can't stand the preachy attitude of some of the BARF crowd - they do their cause more harm than good.

Moselle - Allergies and intolerences aren't always easy to diagnose. From personal experience (ie me, not my dog) I am intollerant to many things and it has taken years to narrow down what it could be (and most of them are natural things). Allergies and intollerences (which are much harder to diagnose) can be a combination of diet and environemental factors, so elimination diets don't always give accurate results.

I do giggle a bit when I see people preaching BARF as if it is the only natural alternative. Many prey-model feeders wouldn't give their dogs BARF as they don't believe it is a natural, balanced diet for a dog.

[OSoSwift]

The fact that there is "Prey Model Diet" people and "BARF" people along with the people who feed a mix or commercial only interests me as well.

It just proves we can't all be wrong and amazingly an extremely large amount of dogs not only survive, but thrive and do well on any of the above diets!

Edited August 16, 2010 by Rommi n Lewis

[Staranais]

My dogs health encouraged me to become more educated about animal nutrition, and it has ended up with me becoming a fully qualified small animal nutritionist.

My year long course taught me so much about dogs and their correct nutrition requirements.

What course is this, Peipei? Just asking since the only qualified small animal nutritionists I know are vets with postgraduate qualifications, but that doesn't sound like what you did. Thanks.

The course was done with the 'National College of Traditional Medicine' info below.

This was one of the core modules in order to achieve my Small Animal Naturopathy Diploma.

Interesting, thanks.

[westielover]

Could someone please tell what the difference between BARF & prey model feeding is???

[Staranais]

Could someone please tell what the difference between BARF & prey model feeding is???

BARF is a mixture of raw meaty bones with additional meat, table scraps, grains, supplements, as described by the vet Dr Billinghurst.

Prey model is designed to mimick a prey animal carcass, most of these people do not feed vegetable matter or fruits at all, let alone table scraps or grains.

I've met dogs that thrive on both diets. Dogs are very adaptable animals.

[westielover]

Could someone please tell what the difference between BARF & prey model feeding is???

BARF is a mixture of raw meaty bones with additional meat, table scraps, grains, supplements, as described by the vet Dr Billinghurst.

Prey model is designed to mimick a prey animal carcass, most of these people do not feed vegetable matter or fruits at all, let alone table scraps or grains.

I've met dogs that thrive on both diets. Dogs are very adaptable animals.

Thanks for that Staranis.

I had thought BARF & prey model were pretty much the same.

I guess I feed a combination but no grains & supplemtents.

The dogs get to chow down on big meaty lamb shanks, half a chicken, whole raw fish & heads, turkey necks etc - I can't imagine throwing down half a lamb carcass in the back yard and letting them chow down on that Oh Mr Heart what a mess that would be!!!

(OT- I remember once when I was in my early teens, my father when to a mates place in the country and came home with a whole humungous pig. I got home from school and nearly passed out at seeing a whole body wrapped in sheets in the laundry ........thought my dad had killed someone till I saw the snout!! Mind you .... I must admit I am not big on pork these days. I think I was all porked out by the time I turned 15!!)

I don't think anyone should preach to anyone about how they should or shouldn't feed their dogs.

One has to try for themselves and see if it suits or not.

When I used to rescue dogs from pounds - I fed the dogs both raw and kibble (not at the same time - one meal would raw and the other kibble), that way they would go to their new homes used to both diets and the new owner could choose what they wanted to feed.

[Puppoochi]

If you watch a lot of docos like I do, you will know that most carnivores will eat the stomach content of a larger prey animal before eating the other bits. Now, most prey animals are herbivores so watcha reckon is gonna be in the stomach? I can guarantee it won't be raw meat or raw vegetables. What you will find in the mostpart will be partially digested vegetable matter.

If a carnivore catches a smaller prey animal, they usually eat the lot, fur nails and whatever else you can think of, all gobbled up.

My theory is variety is the spice of life.

The only health issue I have had was an infected anal gland, and I think I was feeding a bit too much chicken bone (raw of course) at that time.

I have a friend that feeds only BARF and she is forever going to the vet with her dogs. She recons I feed rubbish to my dogs because they have kibble to graze on. I'm glad I'm feeding rubbish if it keeps them away from the vet.

Barfies do preach,

BORN

AGAIN

RAW FOOD

FANATICS

Edited August 16, 2010 by poodiful1

[Moselle]

If you watch a lot of docos like I do, you will know that most carnivores will eat the stomach content of a larger prey animal before eating the other bits. Now, most prey animals are herbivores so watcha reckon is gonna be in the stomach? I can guarantee it won't be raw meat or raw vegetables. What you will find in the mostpart will be partially digested vegetable matter.

If a carnivore catches a smaller prey animal, they usually eat the lot, fur nails and whatever else you can think of, all gobbled up.

My theory is variety is the spice of life.

The only health issue I have had was an infected anal gland, and I think I was feeding a bit too much chicken bone (raw of course) at that time.

I have a friend that feeds only BARF and she is forever going to the vet with her dogs. She recons I feed rubbish to my dogs because they have kibble to graze on. I'm glad I'm feeding rubbish if it keeps them away from the vet.

Barfies do preach,

BORN

AGAIN

RAW FOOD

FANATICS

Perhaps your friend's dog has health issues that are not related to diet. Not all health problems are due to diet.

[Moselle]

To those that say that their dog did not thrive on a BARF diet....I am left to wonder what would have happened before the advent of commercial dog food? or better still, what would have happened to such dogs if they happened to be born in the wild?

Having said this, I am not saying that people should have to feed their dog a BARF diet but I still am of the opinion that a commercial diet is chosen due to convenience. A home cooked meal or a raw diet would have to beat a commercial diet. How would fellow human beings feel if they were made to eat a diet that was totally manufactured with no fresh ingredients whatsoever?

[JulesP]

They probably would have died Moselle.

[poodlefan]

Having said this, I am not saying that people should have to feed their dog a BARF diet but I still am of the opinion that a commercial diet is chosen due to convenience. A home cooked meal or a raw diet would have to beat a commercial diet. How would fellow human beings feel if they were made to eat a diet that was totally manufactured with no fresh ingredients whatsoever?

Really? How would you explain the almost total elimination of rickets in pups since the advent of wide scale feeding of commerically prepared foods and the increasing longevity in many breeds?

I do believe than an appopriately researched raw diet is an excellent one for most dogs but I don't for a minute believe unsuitable half @arsed diets are confined to the realm of commercial dog food producers. I've heard of and read many home cooked diets that curl my hair in terms of their nutritional imbalances.

The "diet totally manufactured with no fresh ingredients" argument neglects to consider that for many dogs, commercially prepared foods are only a part of their diets.

Dogs in the wild die often and die young. It would be rare that all pups in a litter survive to maturity. That analogy is a very tired one and lacks legs when you consider that many dog breeds would not survive in the wild, period.

Edited August 17, 2010 by poodlefan