Vocal Dogs In The Ring And Etiquette

[SnoPaws]

I'll try and make this quite short because I have a habit of rambling ;)

I have only been showing for a year so I am unsure of the what the unwritten rules of etiquette would be so I thought here might be a good place to get some different answers and views ;)

My first show dog & I entered the ring barely a year ago when he had just turned one. Our first year of showing has been a rollercoaster, the highest of highs with a best in group, our title, multiple class in group and show awards as well of multiple best of breeds against some fantastic dogs and the lowest of lows with quite a few fourth out of fourths, my nerves, (I suffer from an anxiety disorder which I know can rub off on my dog) and his training 'issues'. He has zero food drive, I can literally slap him in the face with a steak and he will turn his back on me and being my first dog ever with no interest in food whatsoever has meant rather a steep learning curve for me. He is also a sensitive dog and if corrected will switch off which for a breed that should be animated is not a good thing Consequently we walk a fairly fine line in the ring between being up and showing and being norty. Nowadays this usually pays off for us but to begin with it didn't :p . Norty these days is usually in the form of a couple of things and one of those is being quite vocal in the ring. His is a breed that is naturally quite noisy, when your original purpose was to herd reindeer and you only weigh 25 kilos a big voice is an asset and when they get excited or happy or are playing they bark. My dog is for the most part happy and excited to be in the ring and every couple of minutes or so when we are stacked he will bark, he usually settles down after a while and doesn't bark incessantly (maybe 4 or 5 times every time we enter the ring) I have taught him the quiet command and he will quiet when I ask but will bark a few minutes later. We have never had a problem with any other exhibitors until the weekend, I am always mindful to leave as much distance between me and the dog infront as I can and if he becomes noisy I will turn him away from the ring not only to help him settle but so as to not disturb the other dogs. I have only had one judge comment and she said hey don't you start mister or I'll put you down there (she pointed) to the end and she went on to give us a class in group :D

On the weekend in the BIS lineup another exhibitor became quite upset with us, she asked me to basically shut him up, I apoligised and asked him to be quiet, five or so minutes later he barked again, only once mind you and she was not very happy. Of course being the first time I had ever been in a bis lineup (we were shortlisted ) I was very nervous and over corrected him, he switched off and we blew any chance in the class in show lineup (oh well you live and learn )

So now that I have warbled :D :D what should I have done. Dismiss myself from the class, harden up and ignore her, apoligise sweetly and ignore her, send her a death stare or tell her to harden up.

And ..................................... is a dog being vocal in the ring really that bad

Edited September 8, 2010 by SnoPaws

[ellz]

harden up and ignore her, apoligise sweetly and ignore her, send her a death stare :D or tell her to harden up.

And ..................................... is a dog being vocal in the ring really that bad

To answer your last question first....if you've got a dog which is a bit flat ordinarily, then ANY animation is good animation IMO, as long as it is appropriate.

I've seen Beardies bouncing n barking, Samoyeds answering back, Toy Dogs yapping, Staffords yodelling. Most of the time, the judge laughs and so does ringside.

So onto the first part.....all of the above would be appropriate at some time or another, just learn to pick your times. If the woman has an issue with your dog animating and vocalising, then she probably has a bigger issue with her own dog and should probably work on focus issues there rather than carrying on at you!!!!

Just my opinion of course and no doubt there will be other opposing opinions so you just need to take what you are comfortable with and run with it!

PS. Congratulations on your wonderful year and may there be many more like it!!!

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

My off-the-cuff opinion is that you have to show your own dog to best advantage and that I can't recall a rule against barking. If your dog is barking at another dog in the class and can see that dog, that becomes a different problem.

CC

[WreckitWhippet]

I'd have told you to shut your dog up too. Dogs can be enthusiastic and show their arses off, without barking.

[SilverHaze]

Thats your dog, and he's showing his enjoyment of the ring - let him. I would say the other woman has to harden up!

I've had it before, and had the glares from others, usually in the in show line up - for some reason they don't appreciate our naughty dogs!

I've got a couple of very vocal and bouncy Siberians - i let them have fun and enjoy themselves. As long as your dog is showing himself off, a well placed bark here or there, or chat, can work in your favour - look on it as your dog is saying to the judge, hey over here!!!

I do understand the frustrations though - i have an older boy who is a ratbag, the kind where the judges always look surprised when they find out how old he is, and give me the look like "he should know better by now"!

Once of his naughtiest performances was at a specialty last year under a world renouned breed specialist, it was a huge class, which was actually split to be judged. He barked he bounced he carried on, unless he had food in his mouth - he even barked in the judges face. I could have crawled under the nearest rock. The judge laughed at him.

He made the cut in the first group, so we went back in, then he made the second cut - and he's still barking and bouncing and i'm fractically gesturing for people to get me more food so i could shut him up! He then makes the third cut and is standing in the middle of the ring - still acting the fool...

The bugger of a dog placed fourth in that class - how i still don't know! He was barely still the whole time he was in the ring hehehe....

[cowanbree]

I also would have asked you to keep your dog quiet. While it is great to try and keep your dog animated it shouldn't be at the expense of other exhibitors and a dog stacked behind you barking would unsettle a lot. The dog directly behind me over the weekend did a similar thing and was constantly jigging round. In my opinion she needs to do some training and be more considerate of her fellow exibitors

[angelsun]

So now that I have warbled what should I have done. Dismiss myself from the class, harden up and ignore her, apoligise sweetly and ignore her, send her a death stare or tell her to harden up.

I would have told her to get stuffed! These are the same complainers that bitch when their male is distracted because a bitch in season walked past the ring about a kilometer away! These may also also be the same people that arm themselves with a squeeky and use it non stop (to no response from their dog) and yet can't handle anyone else doing it. These are also the same people that often spend half an hour brushing their dog after the judge examines them on the table, gait it three or four steps, pick up the dog and walk back to their spot and will totally lose it if anyone comes within six feet of their dog claiming the little fluff doesn't 'do' big dogs, 'black dogs', 'white dogs' or 'small dogs'.

[Havasneeze]

Well here's my 2 cents worth!!!! Having shown Bearded Collies, I understand your dilemna. I have one that just won't shutup and the other one (who has now gone to a lovely pet home) always looked like he was on drugs, he was so laid back in the ring and in life. It's a fine line to walk. I have had people tell me to shut my dog up and others who appreciate that this is just the nature of the beast. Sounds like yours is pretty quiet anyways and as CC says, you are there to show your dog to its best advantage.

Keep on doing what you're doing and let the wowsers take a hike!!!

Best of Luck...

[SnoPaws]

Thanks Ellz he is very special to me and if he never wins another thing I don't care well maybe I do because I like to win :D

He has never barked at another dog, just at me, and yes I know he is very, very naughty. Personally I prefer him not do it because does he bounces at the same time and sometimes when he lands it isn't pretty. I try to give the dog in front of me as much space and room as possible and if he was to ever go over the top I would face him to the outside of the ring and move right away from everyone even if the timing was oh so wrong but this has yet to happen.

My oh had the same opinion, that she had the problem but he has never set foot in the ring and is a bit of an armchair expert

I just wanted to make sure we weren't breaking any unwritten rules but I suppose it is one of those things where some people have to find someone to blame rather than themselves and it may as well be the noisy naughty Samoyed and the newbie

That could of been me behind you Cowanbree, yes he fidgets too, we also go to obedience once a week and train for at least 15 minutes once a day and a half an run before a show to get out any excess energy. What do you mean by more considerate of others, dismiss ourselves, even if the judge or steward hadn't commented or just give up

(edited because it wasn't you in front of us)

I will continue to work with him, myself, smile, apoligise and get on with it

Angelsun I wish I had your confidence but telling them get stuffed just isn't me, but yes I have seen it alot. Those that whinge that their dog lost because of an in season bitch then bring one the next weekend.

Silverhaze you just made me day, thank you, it is good to know I am not the only one. Only problem is I can stuff food in his mouth and he spits it out, sod he is.

Edited September 8, 2010 by SnoPaws

[ellz]

Something to remember too as a handler YOU own the space directly in front of you so use it if you need to in order to create a buffer zone. And once you're all set up, don't be scared to move within YOUR little patch of ring to get the best out of your dog.

[angelsun]

Sammy's (I've had them so I speak from experience) I swear are born knowing how to bark, howl and sing. I've had MANY that talk in the ring, and I never discouraged it...what I did, was shape it better.....use it to your advantage. How many times has the judge passed by and not really looked only to have me edge my sammy into a bark and grab their attention back. I really don't give a hoot if the other exhibitors are annoyed to be honest....given half a chance or more, they would do whatever they could to give them the edge in the ring and they would be lying to say they wouldn't do it.

There is NO rule against barking dogs, in fact there isn't even a rule about running up the arse of another exhibitor, but that happens all the time and often by the ones that are the first to bitch about someone elses dog twitching the wrong way and allegedly distracting their precious fluffball.

Sorry, I have no sympathy for those distracted...for me, it's a challenge to train my own to focus more on me better. If that means the occasional bark (or in the case of my GP's, bounce) so be it. These are NOT robot wind up toys...they are bloody dogs that should be having fun since we are asking them to do this...it's not their choice....is it?

People need to get over themselves...it's ONLY a dog show! In 20 years, no one will remember or care....

[ellz]

If you want to talk distractions....try showing in a Group line up in the USA!!!!

Never mind a dog barking in the ring as a distraction, try dodging the flying bait. Or gait your inexperienced dog amongst the leftovers. Not to mention the RINGSIDE barking, howling, hooting and carrying on and none of it coming from the mouth of a dog either!!

Pro-handlers and experienceds owner-handlers don't pull any punches and neither do the spectators!!!!

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

People need to get over themselves...it's ONLY a dog show! In 20 years, no one will remember or care....

I actually encounter people who remember and care at the ten year mark, so I guess they'll last the distance to twenty. Very unusual people. But that's a different story.

Your neighbouring handlers need to be showing their own dogs to best advantage and bullet-proofing their dogs so as to not be distracted by goings-on around them. If they're deficient in that, it's their problem.

CC

[SparkyTansy]

Sorry, I have no sympathy for those distracted...for me, it's a challenge to train my own to focus more on me better. If that means the occasional bark (or in the case of my GP's, bounce) so be it. These are NOT robot wind up toys...they are bloody dogs that should be having fun since we are asking them to do this...it's not their choice....is it?

People need to get over themselves...it's ONLY a dog show! In 20 years, no one will remember or care....

This...

I'd rather an animated dog than a robot anyday... (or a mooper, which is the exact opposite of an animated dog )

[pixie_meg]

Sammy's (I've had them so I speak from experience) I swear are born knowing how to bark, howl and sing. I've had MANY that talk in the ring, and I never discouraged it...what I did, was shape it better.....use it to your advantage. How many times has the judge passed by and not really looked only to have me edge my sammy into a bark and grab their attention back. I really don't give a hoot if the other exhibitors are annoyed to be honest....given half a chance or more, they would do whatever they could to give them the edge in the ring and they would be lying to say they wouldn't do it.

There is NO rule against barking dogs, in fact there isn't even a rule about running up the arse of another exhibitor, but that happens all the time and often by the ones that are the first to bitch about someone elses dog twitching the wrong way and allegedly distracting their precious fluffball.

Sorry, I have no sympathy for those distracted...for me, it's a challenge to train my own to focus more on me better. If that means the occasional bark (or in the case of my GP's, bounce) so be it. These are NOT robot wind up toys...they are bloody dogs that should be having fun since we are asking them to do this...it's not their choice....is it?

People need to get over themselves...it's ONLY a dog show! In 20 years, no one will remember or care....

I'm so glad you said this. we're considering showing my 1 yr old but its so daunting to think that perhaps your dog needs to be perfect from the get go. my boy is exciteable and will bark and cry a little because he wants to play with other dogs. so hopefully we wont make too big a fool of ourselves. barking i'd assume is not typical amongst his breed in the ring though.

[Bilbo Baggins]

SnoPaws if you where at Bairnsdale it was very windy and if you where at Seymour it was very wet.

Either way it required more to get a dog going and they would not have liked the conditions.

Hope the person gets over themselves.

[angelsun]

If you want to talk distractions....try showing in a Group line up in the USA!!!!

Never mind a dog barking in the ring as a distraction, try dodging the flying bait. Or gait your inexperienced dog amongst the leftovers. Not to mention the RINGSIDE barking, howling, hooting and carrying on and none of it coming from the mouth of a dog either!!

Pro-handlers and experienceds owner-handlers don't pull any punches and neither do the spectators!!!! :D

|Oh you have said it SO true...I"ve played in the US rings (Canada's better but following their lead and in some areas almost as bad) and it's not for the faint of heart. Many owners can do the breed level but pass their dogs off for groups to a handler as it's a totally different game!

Inside shows for example where handlers will direct the spectators who to cheer for and who to NOT cheer for. Every time a dog is asked to move, the sound is deafening. The audience pushes for their favourites and lord help the poor soul that isn't known (or their dog) as when they move, you can hear a pin drop. There is no politeness when it comes to applauding for everyone equally.

I have been in the ring (breed level which is a bit different) where judges have instructed spectators to be quiet/keep it down. I've stewarded for judges who snort with disgust when a crowd bursts into their noise and comment "do they think that will influence who I chose?" Clearly they do think that.

I've watched young dogs flatten in fear when the screaming cheers break out as someone else gaits around the ring. I've had my own inexperienced dogs cringe and plant their feet as crowds applaud with good intentions and scare the beejeezus out of my dog as a result.

What did we do.....we taped the noise, we trained inside and played it back LOUD. We train with yapping dogs all around (try doing show training next to the flyball training!) We had people throw toys and squeeks and food all over the ring while we train. We NEVER discouraged a dog from barking, jumping or even laying on the ground and rolling over while waiting in line! (For those that are in my area, I'm sure they have seen my shepherd boy sit patiently ON my feet while we wait in the group line up, or watch my young GP girl roll around in the sun on her back in the grass)

Yes I know that I have gotten a few 'looks' as Angel flails around, but she doesn't interfer with anyone else, doesn't go sniffing butts or anything like that....unlike what some dogs have attempted to do to us in the ring! She is in there to have fun, first and foremost. She has in the past decided she wanted to go see Dad and will stand and look back towards our set up and bark....big deal. Oh yes, and she constantly wags her tail....a lot....OMG....is that a distraction for the dog behind me? Silly dog...stop enjoying yourself and having fun....do NOT wag that tail, it bothers the dog behind you!!

[Shaar]

Honestly... I would be annoyed.

Someone mentioned about a dog not being a robot? Well that goes both ways, I know my dog wouldn't stand there like a rock if there was a dog barking up his bum, being at the front of the line is the hardest because every noise made by both dogs and exhibitors is (according to my little bugger) an invitation to try and spin your head around.

Mine also couldn't give a rats about food in the ring, or toys but I still manage to keep him animated.

So what is fairer... allow the dog to be barking and win an award?

Or stop the dog barking and give the other 6 finalists a fair go?

[ellz]

My first time in the ring in the USA was in the group ring. My boss had 3 dogs in the group lineup so he and his wife were in there with me. I thought I had died and woken up in hell. I'd been in the USA for a week by then and this was my first show weekend and we were first group into the ring and NOBODY had prepared me for what was to come. I went over there thinking that some of our better known dog people played "dirty"....was I in for a rude shock. Some of the carry-on around the dog scene in the USA makes our more "assertive" handlers look like Mother Teresa!

That said, I'd go back in a heartbeat. It was one of the most amazing experiences of my life!!!! Highly recommend it for any young person who wants to learn about dog shows via the saturation method!

[ellz]

So what is fairer... allow the dog to be barking and win an award?

Or stop the dog barking and give the other 6 finalists a fair go?

Shaar, it's a dog SHOW not an obedience trial!

And NOBODY ever said that dog shows had to be fair!