Am I The Only One These Days?

[chran]

We train Albus with both - harness for his daily walks and flat collar for weekly obedience school. Loose lead walking isn't a problem with either. Until he sees another dog - he has Dog Aggression, Car Anxiety and Separation Anxiety (80% cured ). The harness means I can use more force to pull him away in emergency. We were cornered by off-leash dogs a couple of times; with not enough space to avoid the encounters. First time was with flat collar (choked him), second with harness. After these, I prefer harness as I feel that it's safer.

In obedience, he's fine as there're too many dogs around - he cannot focus his aggression and therefore not aggressive (only barks a couple of mins after arriving) - we use a flat collar because that's the school's standard.

There's this new trendy mindset that harness/ halti is gentler than flat collar - just perception I think (and a bad one!).

I heard (and believe in the logic) that a breed determines if you can use harness. For pulling breed (sleigh dog) a harness encourages pulling more than a flat collar (especially those with chest support which copies the design from a sleigh harness).

[poodlefan]

Chran:

The harness means I can use more force to pull him away in emergency.

But unfortunately it leaves you with no control over his head. You cannot turn the dog's head towards you or away from another dog using a harness. That leaves the dog free to engage in challenging staring and the bitey end of the dog free to do as it pleases.

Edited December 22, 2010 by poodlefan

[Anissa Goemann]

I personally prefer to use harnesses on my dogs. For me it has nothing to do with training rather than that the throat/neck area is very sensitive and I don't want to injure them. I have read a brilliant book about that topic by Anders Hallgren: "Back problems in dogs". Since then I am much more careful. I can only recommend that book to everyone (and all the other books of Aders Hallgren).

Both my dogs are well behaved and walk on a loose leashes. They learned that while wearing their harnesses since I don't even own collars any more.

I like the Julius K9 harnesses (Ausrian police dog harnesses) very much. They are very sturdy and I can lift the dog up with them which comes in handy at times with my 15 yo collie girl. Apart from that they wear custom made harnesses by Camiro with their names and my phone number stiched into the harness just in case.

But I can't say that I see a lot of dogs in Hobart wearing harnesses but very often I see dogs with head collars that are used in completely the wrong way.

I am very sorry for those poor dogs that get pulled around in them.

[poodlefan]

I personally prefer to use harnesses on my dogs. For me it has nothing to do with training rather than that the throat/neck area is very sensitive and I don't want to injure them. I have read a brilliant book about that topic by Anders Hallgren: "Back problems in dogs". Since then I am much more careful. I can only recommend that book to everyone (and all the other books of Aders Hallgren).

Both my dogs are well behaved and walk on a loose leashes. They learned that while wearing their harnesses since I don't even own collars any more.

I like the Julius K9 harnesses (Ausrian police dog harnesses) very much. They are very sturdy and I can lift the dog up with them which comes in handy at times with my 15 yo collie girl. Apart from that they wear custom made harnesses by Camiro with their names and my phone number stiched into the harness just in case.

But I can't say that I see a lot of dogs in Hobart wearing harnesses but very often I see dogs with head collars that are used in completely the wrong way.

I am very sorry for those poor dogs that get pulled around in them.

As they are fitted across the dog's chests, this is not one I'd recommend for walking. It restricts shoulder movement. A Y design harness would be my recommendation.

ETA: This is a Y design. See how it doesnt cross the dog's shoulder:

Edited December 22, 2010 by poodlefan

[corvus]

First time was with flat collar (choked him)

That's why I went to harnesses. My dog wasn't DA, but the dog next door we had to walk past a lot was and he'd come at her and she would freeze. I had to physically pull her out of his way once. She was on a check chain at the time. She didn't need a check chain, it was just the done thing back then to walk your dog on one. I quit on check chains after that and a few years later when she started getting arthritic I found a harness to lift her up with and have never looked back. I like the fact that if my dog does something stupid like jumping off a small cliff, or running on the wrong side of a signpost, most of their weight goes onto their chest rather than their neck.

[Quickasyoucan]

My only worry with flat collars is dogs backing out of them. Maybe my dog has a small head but he has backed out of a flat collar a few times. Maybe I had it too loose. We use a martingale if we are out walking. Since I actually bothered to teach a loose lead walk a few years ago (yes I was lazy) he doesn't very often need a correction.

Before that we had a harness and he used it to gain extra traction in his pulling

[TerraNik]

We use Huga's martinagles here!!

We use martingales because they don't rub their fur off and they're easier to get on and off (try finding the clips/buckle in Jedi's coat!! )

[judy69]

We are traveling around OZ in a caravan so I tend to use both lead and collar or harness. Lead and collar get used for those quick toilet breaks and then the harness for a proper walk. I use the harness for walking as we have a Chi (Bud) and their neck/throat is a bit sensitive. He walks fine on either method we use. Everyone has their own preference so what is suitable for some wont be for others.

Have a great Xmas everyone!!!!

[Bundyburger]

Flat collar or more recently a martingale here. It depends on what mood Bundy is in.. if he's behaving well it's the flat, if he's a pain the martingale.

[Diva]

My only worry with flat collars is dogs backing out of them. Maybe my dog has a small head but he has backed out of a flat collar a few times. Maybe I had it too loose. We use a martingale if we are out walking.

Martingales here to. My dogs have narrow backskulls and can slip out of a flat collar. Not that they ever try to , but if they got attacked (which has happened) or frightened by something they could do so accidently. If she really wants to one of them can slip the martingale too, but she has only done it once when someone else tried to walk her away from me - she wasn't having that!

I have only ever used harnesses for tracking, never walking. Tried a head collar for a few days years ago and gave it away straight after. But they seem to suit some dog/handler combinations.

[auir]

around my local area i see alot of people using halti's even on really small dogs

we have a bc, he is good on a flat collar he does pull a little bit for about the first few minutes of a walk but that coz he is generally uber excited about going out

near my work i have a seen a chi with a harness on - think it was more fashion (it was pink with fake jewels on it) then function tho LOL

[pipsqueak]

My only worry with flat collars is dogs backing out of them. Maybe my dog has a small head but he has backed out of a flat collar a few times. Maybe I had it too loose. We use a martingale if we are out walking. Since I actually bothered to teach a loose lead walk a few years ago (yes I was lazy) he doesn't very often need a correction.

Before that we had a harness and he used it to gain extra traction in his pulling

When I volunteered at a shelter, I saw more than one dog back out of a harness!!!

[Mason_Gibbs]

I use a normal collar and leash to walk my dog - his is a bit of a puller still at 20 months but he is growing out of it slowly.

[Snout Girl]

Bert is not allowed to wear a collar due to an operation on his airways when he was a pup.

He has to wear a harness.

We use a sporn halter on Sally on the advice of our dog obedience school trainer, after over a year of loose lead walking training going no where.

its not always because people are too lazy to train their dog on a collar and lead

[aussielover]

Just thought I'd add, I wasn't meaning to imply that people who used halters or harnesses were lazy

I am aware some dogs are determined pullers and also some dogs have neck problems or injuries that means they have to be walked in a harness.

I just find it odd that 90% of dogs in my area are walked in these- surely that many can't be difficult or have medical problems.

Peopple who do use harnesses- do you think they are more comfortable and safer for dogs?

I do find it odd that toy/tiny breed owners feel the need to walk their dogs in halters or harnesses!

We had a lady with a chi puppy wanting to get a front leading harness lol. The reason- the puppy school trainer had recommended it to prevent pulling. She was surprised when we couldn't find one to fit! I suggested a cat harness instead.

Edited December 23, 2010 by aussielover

[Anissa Goemann]

Their Camiros are similarly build (Y design as you call it) but with wider straps and neoprene underlayer to make it more comfy as well as more rings to attach the lead to:

Since my dogs don't wear their harnesses while playing or running (they only walk slowly in them) I don't think restriction in their shoulders is an issue. The Julius' harnesses don't seem to restrict their shoulder movement at all when fittet properly and at that pace we walk...

My collie girl is not a fan of straps between her front legs and I need to lift her up (eg. in the car) using the harness. The handle on the top comes in really handy then (and I love the interchangeble tags ).

Edited December 23, 2010 by Anissa Goemann

[poodlefan]

Their Camiros are similarly build (Y design as you call it) but with wider straps and neoprene underlayer to make it more comfy as well as more rings to attach the lead to:

Since my dogs don't wear their harnesses while playing or running (they only walk slowly in them) I don't think restriction in their shoulders is an issue. The Julius' harnesses don't seem to restrict their shoulder movement at all when fittet properly and at that pace we walk...

My collie girl is not a fan of straps between her front legs and I need to lift her up (eg. in the car) using the harness. The handle on the top comes in really handy then (and I love the interchangeble tags ).

I was wondering how a harness would go on a Collie Rough - is that your Smooth girl??

Fitting is everything but I still prefer to avoid the cross chest harnesses. Two of my poodles now have neck issues and are walked in the Puppia harnesses. Sadly they don't do big dog sizes.

[DaisyDog]

My girl gets walked on a Black dog head collar and a fully retracted extender leash. She doesn't feel corrections on flat collars or check chains and has dislocated my knee on more than on occasion by pulling me over. We've just bought her a martigale collar and are hoping to use that instead of her head collar, but only time will tell.

[poodlefan]

My girl gets walked on a Black dog head collar and a fully retracted extender leash. She doesn't feel corrections on flat collars or check chains and has dislocated my knee on more than on occasion by pulling me over. We've just bought her a martigale collar and are hoping to use that instead of her head collar, but only time will tell.

Daisy dog, please don't use an extender lead on a head collar. The only way your dog can make that lead function is to pull on it - and in addition to totally defeating the purpose of the head collar, that tension is not great for her chiropractically speaking.

Head halters should ONLY be used with a fixed lead. Switch to the martingale or use a long line on the head halter if you want her to have more freedom on walks.

ETA: I note you say you don't lead the lead extend. A fixed lead is a lot easier to manage in that situation.

Edited December 23, 2010 by poodlefan

[Aidan]

My girl gets walked on a Black dog head collar and a fully retracted extender leash. She doesn't feel corrections on flat collars or check chains and has dislocated my knee on more than on occasion by pulling me over. We've just bought her a martigale collar and are hoping to use that instead of her head collar, but only time will tell.

As pf has pointed out, retractable on a head halter is not a good combination.

Timing of correction is very important, all dogs will feel the correction but unless it provides them with enough information to figure out what they are supposed to be doing, the correction will be ineffective ("nagging"). A martingale will not solve this problem for you, only good instruction, good timing and perhaps more than anything else consistency will.

If she is strong enough to injure you, then you need leverage. A head halter can provide this leverage, as can a front-attaching harness. One good way to use these tools is to use a double-ended leash attached at the other end to a flat collar. This way you can transition to the flat collar more easily and are only using the tool when required.

Use rewards when she is in the correct position. Define what "correct position" means first, so that you are absolutely sure what to reward.