mumtoshelley Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Hi how can i get my female golden retriever Shelley to heel properly. Tonight at obedience Shelley would walk with her head to the ground she always has when i tell her to heel. I've never really used the heel command with Shelley as she normally runs up front so far then stops and waits for me to catch up. It seems she has more confidence offlead then she does onlead. I want Shelley really heeling like this Shelley hasn't been too obedience for a year and tonight was her first night back and i would really like to work on the heeling more and stand. I've also got to teach her long distance command and touch. So we have our work cut out for us till next monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I don't think there's a really simple answer to this problem - for me, it was getting my dog to have more drive and focus and then reteaching the heel command. There is a downside to training obedience in most obedience clubs and this is normally that the dog is worked for too long, trained to be calm rather than 'animated' and does too much paddock bashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Agreed 100% with Huski. The majority of dogs will never heel the way that Dobe does by going to a typical obedience club. ... not knocking obedience clubs or even saying that I liked the way that dobe heels, but it certainly has the drive that it takes to get a focused heel. I have been training dogs for years and I still get frustrated with heeling. There is no easy fix, sorry. Keeping at club training will more than likely eventually give you the tools to have your dog walking on a loose lead alongside you with it's head for the most part up off the ground, but that "focus" is that extra magic that comes from training in drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) I agree with Huski on this one - most dogs find paddock bashing boring. You need to make training sessions short and enjoyable for the dog and not expect to much too quickly. There are some very good DVDs available on motivational training. I have just started to seriously teach my 4 yr old BC obedience. So far after 2 weeks of training we are doing stationary positions in the heel position with extended focus, a few steps of straight line heeling with focus and awesome stationary right and left about turns with a few steps forward. I am lucky in that my dog is mature, knows how to learn and has the ability to focus for long periods from training in another discipline and is very high drive. ETA At this stage I won't take him to an obedience club but will when he is ready to train with distraction and for his long stays with other dogs. Edited February 21, 2011 by Janba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Heeling really nicely like that takes a lot of training. Like Huski says, there's no quick route. On the other hand, you'd never need or use stylised heeling like that in every day life. It's a skill for competition. That dog won't be heeling like that when his owner takes him for a walk to the shops - he will only be heeling for short bursts of time, and he will be getting a super reward for it afterwards. So unless you want to compete, you could just teach your dog to loose leash walk, which would be much quicker & easier to teach, as well as more practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The first thing I'd do is teach her what the heel position means, and make that position super rewarding. Heeling is different to loose leash walking so make sure the dog understands the difference. I recently went back to the basics with my girl's heeling and was starting with just getting into position, then taking one step, two steps, and only building that up once her positioning and attitude were what I wanted. I do agree with the posters above, your usual obedience class won't get brilliant heeling. I haven't done training in drive but would like to. I am getting nice heeling from my girl but it takes a lot of work and patience and making it FUN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumtoshelley Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 I don't want Shelley to walk that close to me where i she is glued to my leg but i would like it if she walked with her head high looking up at me.She is doing good will heel but i just want to make it better with her head held high not drooping down like shes very sad. So far i've trained Shelley without using food but i will use food if i have to to teach he to look up to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Although, call me a perfectionist, but I didn't like the way that dog licked its lips on the left turns - it looked nervous to me on those turns. Also, it was kind of forged some of the time. ETA - I teach heel like that using food, and then add in toys for animation. But when I just take my dog for a walk, she's allowed to look wherever she wants. We have two commands - heel (which is a work in progress!) and just a casual loose leash walk near my side. Edited February 21, 2011 by Staranais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I don't want Shelley to walk that close to me where i she is glued to my leg but i would like it if she walked with her head high looking up at me.She is doing good will heel but i just want to make it better with her head held high not drooping down like shes very sad. So far i've trained Shelley without using food but i will use food if i have to to teach he to look up to me. How have you been teaching her? What is her motivation to work with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumtoshelley Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 I just tell her good girl and pat her head,chest. All the other dogs at obedience all looked happy except for Shelley she looked sad.I'll only be using heel for obedience when on our walks she can walk like she does now. When on our walks her head is held high and she looks very happy. The last time Shelley was at obedience she was happy but now she seems sad. The trainers said if she moves out of heel pull the lead back and say heel. I know she gets excited when she sees food. But i'm not sure using treats as Shelley is on a diet as she needs to lose weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 If you want animation like in that video, you need something your dog is crazy for. If your dog doesn't go crazy for your praise, you won't get heeling like that by using praise alone. You'll need another reward to motivate the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Gee if I only trained my beagle with a pat on the head and a 'good girl', I'd never get her nose off the ground! She does fairly good heel work and she'll work with the attitude I like to see but I train her in food drive to get that (you can click the link below to our utube channel if you'd like to see her working). I would definitely look at retraining heel using a higher value reward like food - something soft and smelly like cheese, roast chicken, cheap off cuts of steak etc. Substitute treats you use for training for meals or use her meals as training treats if you are worried about her weight. ETA: What Staranais said! Edited February 21, 2011 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Yup, look at Huski's videos, they're awesome! Here's one from my girl quite a few months back now - her heel position isn't perfect yet in this clip but I'm very happy with her focus - anyway as you can see our training at this stage is mostly play with a bit of heeling in it, later on there is more heeling and less play, but the play reward always remains, it is never just work with no play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avcpSJ-w_rY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Great video Staranais!!! Yes i agree with the others too- high value rewards and very short bursts. Does your dog loose lead walk well? Have you thought about using a marker word or clicker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Fledge is so awesome, Rach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumtoshelley Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 Shelley isn't toy driven shes not much into toys as she is with food. I might give the treat a go and see how she does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumtoshelley Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 Shelleys walk is completely offlead she is hardly onlead at all. She doesn't walk beside me tho she runs up front a bit then stops and waits till i get to her, then she goes again. When we cross the road she stops waits till i come looks both ways then when i say ok we cross. When she is onlead she is walking beside me, She seems so much happier then at training. I think it might be the pulling back on the lead correction the trainer said to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Susan Garrett recommends a head halti like the gentle leader to get a dog's head off the ground - in her book Ruff Love. She also talks about value transfer. If the dog love food, teach it to love tug and transfer the value of the food to the tug by rewarding a good game of tug, with food. You can use food to get the dog fired up and excited and then train in short bursts of 30 seconds to a couple of minutes. The higher the rate of re-inforcement (with tiny treats so the dog doesn't get full) the faster the dog learns and the more excited about training it remains. My dog will do that lovely heel as long as I have a treat in my hand - usually held somewhere around my belly button but sometimes over my left or right hip. I like doing agility so we need to work both sides. I try to make the whole deal a fun game. So I pay attention to what my dog loves doing (apart from mouse hunting) and work that into the game and training. Is Shelley into retrieving at all - because throwing a ball and fetching it can work as reward. It may help to put the ball into a sock so it can be used as a tug too and to limit travel when it lands. Or get/make a ball with a rope in it. There is a GR doing obedience comps around Adeliade that moves stuck to the owners leg with its head up and all happy paws. Trainer got all vague when I asked him how he did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 If you want animation like in that video, you need something your dog is crazy for. If your dog doesn't go crazy for your praise, you won't get heeling like that by using praise alone. You'll need another reward to motivate the dog. Absolutely Would you work for a pat on the head from your boss? Doubt it. $$$ work better don't they? Same with your dog. Rewards = $$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 That's excellent work with Fledge, Star . It was great to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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