Tally Ho!

[shortstep]

Who let the hounds out!

Great photos of dog horses and countryside.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...o=feeds-newsxml

[sas]

Wait for it......Those who hate Fox Hunting.

[poodlefan]

Wait for it......Those who hate Fox Hunting.

Could be a drag hunt.

[Keshwar]

I posted this in dog sport but it is sort of related to this.

Hound Trailing in Cumbria in the UK.

http://www.lhi.org.uk/projects_directory/p...tage/index.html

[WreckitWhippet]

Nothing better than a pack of Hounds, living and hunting together.

[dandybrush]

in honesty that looks like fun, im all for the coyote getting away though

[Keshwar]

A couple of interesting quotes:

Traditional: Hounds follow the scent of a coyote near a heard of cattle on Tejon Ranch, near Gorman, California

I wonder what the cattle heard?

Although don't feel too sorry for the coyote. The wily animal is regularly able to outfox the hounds and is able to run as fast as 40 mph.

And while horses often don't come cheap, Jacobs says many riders in his group get theirs through adopt-a-horse programs that feature thoroughbred racehorses that weren't quite fast enough.

[shortstep]

A couple of interesting quotes:

Although don't feel too sorry for the coyote. The wily animal is regularly able to outfox the hounds and is able to run as fast as 40 mph.

There is heaps of national and state park land and wilderness in that direct area. If they start to enter properties and start killing, the will get shot. I would guess the hound and horse folks almost never catch a coyote (they might seldom even see one, and just be cashing the recent get a way tracks). But they hopfully do scare the heck out of them and the coyote will think long and hard before going back to that ranch area again. Just might save their lives, as well as the rancher's calves, sheep, lambs, chickens and their dogs and cats.

Edited April 13, 2011 by shortstep

[freundhund]

Okay, I am about to be shot down in flames BUT I think fox-hunting is far more humane than 1080 poison and in some cases even shooting as shooters don't alwasy get a clean shot!!! The fox has a chance to get away, and being chased a couple of times can act as aversion and move the fox to another area. There have been studies done on this in the UK, but of course can I find them this morning? I particularly don't have an objection to fox hunting here in Australia where the fox is not a native animal and the damage it does to native marsupials and native mammals is horrendous. In some areas the fox is more responsible even than feral cats for decimating native mammals.

[juice]

I come from Warwickshire, home of the hunt, and i can tell you its not the fox that suffers the most, but the horses who are ridden into the ground by wankers who can't ride, who point them at anything to jump, take 2/3 horses to a meet, ( well they actually just meet the groom there, they do nothing else), ride one down and then another, then get in their car and go home.

Ex hunters legs are shot to pieces, from cantering down roads.

Alot of the landowners near me( especially where i kept my horse, they were irish draught breeders) hated the hunt, they broke fences, trashed crops, and we had to bring our horses inside if they were near as they would go crazy.

[corvus]

Okay, I am about to be shot down in flames BUT I think fox-hunting is far more humane than 1080 poison and in some cases even shooting as shooters don't alwasy get a clean shot!!!

Gee, why would you be shot down in flames? Perhaps because being chased for several hours and then eventually torn to shreds by a pack of dogs doesn't sound like a very humane death? Let's compare it to a 1080 death. Convulsions, excessive salivation, squealing and biting at objects, taking several hours to die.... There is contention about whether the animals are conscious. I don't think anyone really knows, but I think we should err on the side of caution and assume that it is as painful as it looks. Does that make it a less humane death than running for your life for several hours and then being torn to pieces? We can only guess.

The fox has a chance to get away, and being chased a couple of times can act as aversion and move the fox to another area.

Whether this actually occurs or not aside, what do you suppose would happen then? Where does the fox move to? Do you think a vacated fox territory stays that way?

ETA I forgot to mention that historically, hunting leads to translocations. That's how foxes got here in the first place. It still goes on all the time. Native and introduced fish translocations in Australia, for example, are ongoing and have had a severe impact on other native fish species. And there were the foxes introduced into Tasmania back in 2000. I believe it's happening quite a bit in some parts of the US with foxes and coyotes.

Edited April 13, 2011 by corvus

[raz]

w00t w00t. Tallyho!

[perrin]

Does that make it a less humane death than running for your life for several hours and then being torn to pieces? We can only guess.

But isn't that how animals in the wild live anyway.

You only have to watch a documentary to see an animal bring down it's prey and then tear it to shreds.

And no i am not saying that that makes fox hunting alright. I don't know enough about fox hunting to make an informed decision.

[corvus]

But isn't that how animals in the wild live anyway.

I don't think there's anything 'natural' about a fox hunt. It's a sport.

[WoofnHoof]

I don't know of any animal that hunts another for several hours at speed, not very efficient in terms of energy expenditure. Most hunters in the wild stalk and pounce, chase over a short period or wear the animal down at a slower pace over a long period, if they haven't caught it quickly it's a waste of energy to continue pursuing it at signficant speed.

There are signficant welfare issues associated with this type of hunting both for the animals used (horses and dogs) and the animals being hunted (foxes and coyotes), people would do well to remember this and remember that two wrongs (ie 1080) don't make a right.

[perrin]

I don't know of any animal that hunts another for several hours at speed, not very efficient in terms of energy expenditure. Most hunters in the wild stalk and pounce, chase over a short period or wear the animal down at a slower pace over a long period, if they haven't caught it quickly it's a waste of energy to continue pursuing it at signficant speed.

There are signficant welfare issues associated with this type of hunting both for the animals used (horses and dogs) and the animals being hunted (foxes and coyotes), people would do well to remember this and remember that two wrongs (ie 1080) don't make a right.

I know next to nothing about fox hunting so had a quick Google and on Wiki it says

"that the animal rarely endures hours of torment and pursuit by hounds, and research by Oxford University shows that the fox is normally killed after only an average of 17 minutes of chase"

I wonder if that is true or not.

[shortstep]

Just some thoughts to some of the statements made above.

Around here foxes spit up the bait and your best friend and working dog finds it and dies. Ask me, bait is only used as it is effective in killing lots of foxes. It is not used because it is more humane than hunting them out nor is it not used even knowing there a good chance a few or more domestic dogs will eat it and die. Hunting is the a viable answer, shoot them on sight or hunt them out with dogs and then shoot them.

Fox were introduced to the US and Canada a long time ago and they are in most parts of the country. They have not however become as much as a pest as they are here. They have been hunted by gun, trap and dog extensively. Foxes on fox hunts are not usually killed in the US ( like they were in the UK), once they go down a hole they ride on and leave the fox. However people hunt fox all the time and kill them and using dogs is one method. Most hunters (with dogs) will not hunt during pup season and if they find pups in a burrow will replace the ground and not go after the mother. Read the Terrierman blog original links go back to, he has extensive information about foxes and hunting them in the US.

Coyote are great survivors and very adaptable, they are not in danger of extinction. Coy are native to all parts of the US and always have been. They are still found in all parts of the US even cities. Packs of coyotes or singles dogs can enter your fenced back yard in the suburbs, breed you best show bitch, kill your male dog and hunt out your cat and eat it, they are not good to have around neighborhoods or any farms or properties. These dogs are bigger than dingoes and very cleaver. BTW Coy dogs are not that rare and usually not suitable for pets. Most want to see their numbers controlled, right now more than ever, as they are in direct competition with wolves. There is a lot of effort being placed on reestablishing wolves in certain areas of the US and Canada. Though it is not always so easy to tell a wolf from a coy. Coy on rural properties are usually watched and if they pass through are left alone, if they move in and start to kill then they will be shot.

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2009/...he-watches.html

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2007/...shigton-dc.html

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2008/...-bounty-on.html

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/search/label/wolf

Anyone really interested in hunting, foxes, coy, wolves, using dogs for hunting, terriers, photography, history, dogs dogs and more dogs, breeding, politics, and much more should take a good look around the Terriermans blog (Daily Dose), it is truly a very educational web site. However the site is huge and if you really start to explore it, do plan to spend days if not weeks reading. I find it a great way to start the day with my morning cup of coffee, always something interesting on the daily blog. http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/

Edited April 13, 2011 by shortstep

[shortstep]

I don't know of any animal that hunts another for several hours at speed, not very efficient in terms of energy expenditure. Most hunters in the wild stalk and pounce, chase over a short period or wear the animal down at a slower pace over a long period, if they haven't caught it quickly it's a waste of energy to continue pursuing it at signficant speed.

There are signficant welfare issues associated with this type of hunting both for the animals used (horses and dogs) and the animals being hunted (foxes and coyotes), people would do well to remember this and remember that two wrongs (ie 1080) don't make a right.

I know next to nothing about fox hunting so had a quick Google and on Wiki it says

"that the animal rarely endures hours of torment and pursuit by hounds, and research by Oxford University shows that the fox is normally killed after only an average of 17 minutes of chase"

I wonder if that is true or not.

Oxford is known for putting out false study information, so do not believe a word they say. LOL

[Aidan3]

I don't know of any animal that hunts another for several hours at speed, not very efficient in terms of energy expenditure. Most hunters in the wild stalk and pounce, chase over a short period or wear the animal down at a slower pace over a long period, if they haven't caught it quickly it's a waste of energy to continue pursuing it at signficant speed.

There are signficant welfare issues associated with this type of hunting both for the animals used (horses and dogs) and the animals being hunted (foxes and coyotes), people would do well to remember this and remember that two wrongs (ie 1080) don't make a right.

I know next to nothing about fox hunting so had a quick Google and on Wiki it says

"that the animal rarely endures hours of torment and pursuit by hounds, and research by Oxford University shows that the fox is normally killed after only an average of 17 minutes of chase"

I wonder if that is true or not.

Oxford is known for putting out false study information, so do not believe a word they say. LOL

I think the concern is wikipedia, the citation given was a BBC news article. Google Scholar might turn something up if anyone wants to verify the source.

[corvus]

Around here foxes spit up the bait and your best friend and working dog finds it and dies. Ask me, bait is only used as it is effective in killing lots of foxes. It is not used because it is more humane than hunting them out nor is it not used even knowing there a good chance a few or more domestic dogs will eat it and die. Hunting is the a viable answer, shoot them on sight or hunt them out with dogs and then shoot them.

No one speculated on why 1080 was used. No one has said it is humane.

There is a difference IMO between hunting for recreation and hunting for population control. There are organisations that actively maintain feral animal populations so they can hunt them. As a former ecologist, I find that abhorrent. They are mostly after deer, pigs and goats, but anything that has value will be preserved. If it's fun to hunt foxes there will be people translocating and preserving them so they can do it. That is not an answer to feral populations in my mind.