Leelaa17 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 It's my opinion. I don't like euthanasia. Why? Because I don't like it. I think it is a waste of life. Why does it matter why I don't like it? I just don't. I think dogs deserve a million chances instead of being put down. I think it is pointless. And most of us feel similar, however the rest of us are just a bit more practical about the issue. Yes, that is true. I am not and will happily admit that. I have no practical ideas on how to stop it, I just know I want it stopped. And that is my prerogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Then why shouldn't students be able to use this issue to benefit their future patients? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 So you'd stop it if you could, but have no solutions to the problem it would cause? Even if stopping it meant dogs would suffer? Do you think it is cruel to euth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Yes, that is true. I am not and will happily admit that. I have no practical ideas on how to stop it, I just know I want it stopped. And that is my prerogative. There are many here (including me) who believe that a humane death for a dog is preferable to a miserable life. I appreciate that no one wants to see healthy dogs die. But the facts are that they do and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. If they are going to die and can help other dogs and vets in the process, why object to the process? ;) As I see it, you're focussed on the wrong issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelaa17 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Then why shouldn't students be able to use this issue to benefit their future patients? They could, if they didn't put the dogs down afterwards. If there were actual problems with the dogs that they could fix. Look I don't know aye? I am simply expressing my opinion that I don't like the practices that lead to the euthanisation of healthy dogs. So you'd stop it if you could, but have no solutions to the problem it would cause? Even if stopping it meant dogs would suffer? Do you think it is cruel to euth? Well that's a loaded question. Maybe another time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelaa17 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Yes, that is true. I am not and will happily admit that. I have no practical ideas on how to stop it, I just know I want it stopped. And that is my prerogative. There are many here (including me) who believe that a humane death for a dog is preferable to a miserable life. I appreciate that no one wants to see healthy dogs die. But the facts are that they do and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. If they are going to die and can help other dogs and vets in the process, why object to the process? ;) As I see it, you're focussed on the wrong issue. That's a very fair point. And of course I would rather dogs be in doggy heaven than live a miserable life. I just don't see why they can't live happy lives. Why is it so hard for shelters and everywhere else to make it a happy living situation for them. (That is a rhetorical question). And I guess I am focused on the wrong issue. I am focused on the euthanasia part, not the process part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Then why shouldn't students be able to use this issue to benefit their future patients? They could, if they didn't put the dogs down afterwards. If there were actual problems with the dogs that they could fix. Look I don't know aye? I am simply expressing my opinion that I don't like the practices that lead to the euthanisation of healthy dogs. But the dogs were going to be put to sleep anyway, wether the student operated or not. I get your issue is with the euthanasia, what I don't get is your issue with the students operating. The dog will be PTS regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 That's a very fair point. And of course I would rather dogs be in doggy heaven than live a miserable life. I just don't see why they can't live happy lives. Why is it so hard for shelters and everywhere else to make it a happy living situation for them. Because right now they don't have infinite time, space or funds. Could you fit a never ending supply of dogs in your house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Yes, that is true. I am not and will happily admit that. I have no practical ideas on how to stop it, I just know I want it stopped. And that is my prerogative. There are many here (including me) who believe that a humane death for a dog is preferable to a miserable life. I appreciate that no one wants to see healthy dogs die. But the facts are that they do and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. If they are going to die and can help other dogs and vets in the process, why object to the process? ;) As I see it, you're focussed on the wrong issue. That's a very fair point. And of course I would rather dogs be in doggy heaven than live a miserable life. I just don't see why they can't live happy lives. Why is it so hard for shelters and everywhere else to make it a happy living situation for them. (That is a rhetorical question). And I guess I am focused on the wrong issue. I am focused on the euthanasia part, not the process part. Can you imagine how much it would cost to have a shelter big enough for every single dog that comes through the door to live there for the rest of its life if it isn't adopted? Who is going to pay for that? And some dogs just do not cope with being in a shelter, what if a home never comes along for them? They are to live in fear or boredom for the rest of their life? Edited May 5, 2011 by Lyndsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 That's a very fair point. And of course I would rather dogs be in doggy heaven than live a miserable life. I just don't see why they can't live happy lives. Why is it so hard for shelters and everywhere else to make it a happy living situation for them. Because right now they don't have infinite time, space or funds. Could you fit a never ending supply of dogs in your house? Leelaa - perhaps you need to come in to the real world - you have been in laalaa land for too long... Reality is there is not enough space and funds for housing unwanted animals for the rest of their lives - who do you expect to have this responsibility? Do you really think all the unwanted animals are going to live in harmony together? Real world sweetheart...it's just not possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Vets have to learn and sadly there is a large supply of unwanted animals that are going to be euthanased anyway. We can euthanase them, or we can anaesthetise them, allow training veterinarians to get some valuable hands on experience and then euthanase them. The animals dont suffer any pain from it so while I find it distasteful I dont have a problem with it.A very large vet I worked for in the past used Greyhounds being euthanased for the same purpose, we also used them as blood donors. Not nice but a fact of life. As for the fact that the animals were terrified - that isn't the fault of the university. They dont breed them for the purpose of experimenting on them, these are poundies whose time is up. This. To me this actually seems like they're making the most of a pretty drab situation. Dogs that are going to be put down anyway firstly being utilised to improve the skill of future vets. On the other hand, as a psychology student, I never got over the fact that I spent 8 weeks taming and training a rat, and then one week was told it had been killed as it was now too old for the program. I was devestated, and would have happily given "Spike" a home with me (my study partner would have done the same), but we were never even informed of the intentions for these animals. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 That's a very fair point. And of course I would rather dogs be in doggy heaven than live a miserable life. I just don't see why they can't live happy lives. Why is it so hard for shelters and everywhere else to make it a happy living situation for them. Because right now they don't have infinite time, space or funds. Could you fit a never ending supply of dogs in your house? Leelaa - perhaps you need to come in to the real world - you have been in laalaa land for too long... Reality is there is not enough space and funds for housing unwanted animals for the rest of their lives - who do you expect to have this responsibility? Do you really think all the unwanted animals are going to live in harmony together? Real world sweetheart...it's just not possible... How rude is your post. Seriously! In the real world, babies die and people starve to death. In the real world women get raped and children are forced into prostitution. In the real world everyone dies. But that doesn't mean everyone has to or wants to say "this is reality and I must accept it". Leelaa may not share your thoughts on euthansia or on practising veterinary science on animals that are alive, but she certainly sounds to me that she understands it happens and it is reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 That's a very fair point. And of course I would rather dogs be in doggy heaven than live a miserable life. I just don't see why they can't live happy lives. Why is it so hard for shelters and everywhere else to make it a happy living situation for them. Because right now they don't have infinite time, space or funds. Could you fit a never ending supply of dogs in your house? Leelaa - perhaps you need to come in to the real world - you have been in laalaa land for too long... Reality is there is not enough space and funds for housing unwanted animals for the rest of their lives - who do you expect to have this responsibility? Do you really think all the unwanted animals are going to live in harmony together? Real world sweetheart...it's just not possible... How rude is your post. Seriously! In the real world, babies die and people starve to death. In the real world women get raped and children are forced into prostitution. In the real world everyone dies. But that doesn't mean everyone has to or wants to say "this is reality and I must accept it". Leelaa may not share your thoughts on euthansia or on practising veterinary science on animals that are alive, but she certainly sounds to me that she understands it happens and it is reality. I have been called worse Anne - seriously - no one likes the idea of killing animals but we must be realistic here. As you know there are thousands of animals who are simply not wanted, until there is a better solution to the masses of unwanted pets then this practice will stay in place. Anyone who tries to house unwanted animals on their own are called animal hoarders - many start out with good intentions but soon end up well over their heads. The real world sucks big time - never said it didn't.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flick_Mac Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Having just performed my first live surgery on a pig (because UQ is no longer able to source dogs) on Tuesday I can tell everyone who hasn't performed surgery that it is TOTALLY 100% different to performing it on cadavers - which we do as well. I hate doing the quotes thing but I have some points: - our pig got some out loud thankyous as he slipped away, as well as being patted and stroked - I was SO glad that it wasn't a recoverable surgery or the poor thing would have had a horrible peritonitis. It's so hard to learn how to pass things around, and hold instruments, stay sterile and manipulate tissues, especially when they move, contract, pulsate and bleed - out of a group of 4 students 2 were anaesthetists and 2 surgeons, so we learned as much as possible from 1 animal. - we only do 3 or 4 of these pracs so the number of animals used for this practice is as minimal as posisble. - our facilities are one of the newest in Australia and the best according to some people i've talked to - with a live animal you can SEE if you cut something you shouldn't. Or if what you ligated was done properly. If this happened on a recoverable animal maybe I wouldn't know how to stop it, and I'd just panic. I'd much rather those things happened with something that will never wake-up to feel post-op pain. - PF - we didn't ever have a 'colony' of dogs. They came from the pound, we temperament assessed and placed some into an adoption program, and some were used for teaching. This issue makes me furious as I would be before the vet surgeons board in a second if I came out of uni and was so inexperienced yet still expected to be able to perform a surgery where I take an ORGAN out of an animal (ie a spay) on day 1. There are 4 major blood vessels that can be cut and will lead to death if this is not done properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Having just performed my first live surgery on a pig (because UQ is no longer able to source dogs) on Tuesday I can tell everyone who hasn't performed surgery that it is TOTALLY 100% different to performing it on cadavers - which we do as well.I hate doing the quotes thing but I have some points: - our pig got some out loud thankyous as he slipped away, as well as being patted and stroked - I was SO glad that it wasn't a recoverable surgery or the poor thing would have had a horrible peritonitis. It's so hard to learn how to pass things around, and hold instruments, stay sterile and manipulate tissues, especially when they move, contract, pulsate and bleed - out of a group of 4 students 2 were anaesthetists and 2 surgeons, so we learned as much as possible from 1 animal. - we only do 3 or 4 of these pracs so the number of animals used for this practice is as minimal as posisble. - our facilities are one of the newest in Australia and the best according to some people i've talked to - with a live animal you can SEE if you cut something you shouldn't. Or if what you ligated was done properly. If this happened on a recoverable animal maybe I wouldn't know how to stop it, and I'd just panic. I'd much rather those things happened with something that will never wake-up to feel post-op pain. - PF - we didn't ever have a 'colony' of dogs. They came from the pound, we temperament assessed and placed some into an adoption program, and some were used for teaching. This issue makes me furious as I would be before the vet surgeons board in a second if I came out of uni and was so inexperienced yet still expected to be able to perform a surgery where I take an ORGAN out of an animal (ie a spay) on day 1. There are 4 major blood vessels that can be cut and will lead to death if this is not done properly. Thanks for your inside experience Flick - invaluable and reasoned contribution to the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 That's a very fair point. And of course I would rather dogs be in doggy heaven than live a miserable life. I just don't see why they can't live happy lives. Why is it so hard for shelters and everywhere else to make it a happy living situation for them. Because right now they don't have infinite time, space or funds. Could you fit a never ending supply of dogs in your house? Leelaa - perhaps you need to come in to the real world - you have been in laalaa land for too long... Reality is there is not enough space and funds for housing unwanted animals for the rest of their lives - who do you expect to have this responsibility? Do you really think all the unwanted animals are going to live in harmony together? Real world sweetheart...it's just not possible... How rude is your post. Seriously! In the real world, babies die and people starve to death. In the real world women get raped and children are forced into prostitution. In the real world everyone dies. But that doesn't mean everyone has to or wants to say "this is reality and I must accept it". Leelaa may not share your thoughts on euthansia or on practising veterinary science on animals that are alive, but she certainly sounds to me that she understands it happens and it is reality. I have been called worse Anne - seriously - no one likes the idea of killing animals but we must be realistic here. As you know there are thousands of animals who are simply not wanted, until there is a better solution to the masses of unwanted pets then this practice will stay in place. Anyone who tries to house unwanted animals on their own are called animal hoarders - many start out with good intentions but soon end up well over their heads. The real world sucks big time - never said it didn't.. Your post was condescending and rude. Telling someone they have been in 'laalaa land' for too long and using terms such as sweetheart are not part of the debate. Wise up and learn the word "apology". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Having just performed my first live surgery on a pig (because UQ is no longer able to source dogs) All thanks to the bleeding hearts who protested the practice no doubt. And the dogs now die without giving the benefit of learning. Wonderful. A real victory for dog welfare ;) Edited May 5, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Having just performed my first live surgery on a pig (because UQ is no longer able to source dogs) on Tuesday I can tell everyone who hasn't performed surgery that it is TOTALLY 100% different to performing it on cadavers - which we do as well.I hate doing the quotes thing but I have some points: - our pig got some out loud thankyous as he slipped away, as well as being patted and stroked - I was SO glad that it wasn't a recoverable surgery or the poor thing would have had a horrible peritonitis. It's so hard to learn how to pass things around, and hold instruments, stay sterile and manipulate tissues, especially when they move, contract, pulsate and bleed - out of a group of 4 students 2 were anaesthetists and 2 surgeons, so we learned as much as possible from 1 animal. - we only do 3 or 4 of these pracs so the number of animals used for this practice is as minimal as posisble. - our facilities are one of the newest in Australia and the best according to some people i've talked to - with a live animal you can SEE if you cut something you shouldn't. Or if what you ligated was done properly. If this happened on a recoverable animal maybe I wouldn't know how to stop it, and I'd just panic. I'd much rather those things happened with something that will never wake-up to feel post-op pain. - PF - we didn't ever have a 'colony' of dogs. They came from the pound, we temperament assessed and placed some into an adoption program, and some were used for teaching. This issue makes me furious as I would be before the vet surgeons board in a second if I came out of uni and was so inexperienced yet still expected to be able to perform a surgery where I take an ORGAN out of an animal (ie a spay) on day 1. There are 4 major blood vessels that can be cut and will lead to death if this is not done properly. Thanks for the insight. Where do they source the cadavers from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flick_Mac Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Cadavers are greyhounds donated by trainers who we euthanase, or they did come to use live from pounds - when we then assessed who was rehomable and who wasn't. The ethics board has now recommended that the dogs are euthanased before transport, so I'm not sure what will happen to our adoption program ;) The pound I think was happy to keep sourcing us with dogs, but the protesters were making their lives hell by camping at the pound and abusing staff members (or so I was told). Uni knew we'd have to stop using dogs within the next year or so, but the rug has been pulled out from underneath us way earlier than we expected (ie. no transition period - one week we'd have dogs, the next it was pigs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 That's a very fair point. And of course I would rather dogs be in doggy heaven than live a miserable life. I just don't see why they can't live happy lives. Why is it so hard for shelters and everywhere else to make it a happy living situation for them. Because right now they don't have infinite time, space or funds. Could you fit a never ending supply of dogs in your house? Leelaa - perhaps you need to come in to the real world - you have been in laalaa land for too long... Reality is there is not enough space and funds for housing unwanted animals for the rest of their lives - who do you expect to have this responsibility? Do you really think all the unwanted animals are going to live in harmony together? Real world sweetheart...it's just not possible... How rude is your post. Seriously! In the real world, babies die and people starve to death. In the real world women get raped and children are forced into prostitution. In the real world everyone dies. But that doesn't mean everyone has to or wants to say "this is reality and I must accept it". Leelaa may not share your thoughts on euthansia or on practising veterinary science on animals that are alive, but she certainly sounds to me that she understands it happens and it is reality. NO not rude at all. What was said is fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now