Champions

[Faolmor]

Sigh.

I know the OP means well, but I get annoyed by these threads, because to me, to comment about how a dog can title without ever beating another dog shows a basic lack of understanding of how the CC system works. Every dog is judged against the standard FIRST, before it is judged against competition (if you are lucky enough to have it on the day). Being judged against the standard IS being judged against another dog - the ideal dog of your chosen breed. If you happen to also have competition, you can then enjoy the luxury of having your dog picked as that which, in that ring at that time, is the closest to the ideal - according to that judge.

One would hope the integrity of judges in this country is such that a dgo who makes it to 100 points WITHOUT competition is of sufficient quality to merit the title...because all those different signatures on all those 6 point CC say so.

[Dogsfevr]

Sorry Yarracully your wrong again assuming we have not travelled around Australia competing. Actually we have attended Shows in every State of Australia and yes we know the cost but it can be done with careful planning.

I think you are getting off the thread and nit picking at what we may or may not have done in our Showing life of some 30years or more.

Then one would expect you would have more knowledge & seen more things

How often have you been to Perth?? & when??

Since the price increase in freighting dogs very few people head to Perth & the GSD folk certainly don't travel over here like the WA folk do.

If im correct one of the main reasons a national isn't held here due to the logistics of flying/expense & many folk not willing to travel this way

[conztruct]

Dont be confused Yarracully about where we lived - we lived in Sydney for sometime than moved to the mid west. Many people do that you know. As I said before you only need to attend One Speciality Show and be placed. By being placed at a Speciality it shows that your breeding is on the right track or not.

No it doesn't.

I agree with this.....as a relative newbie viewing breeders in my breed who have some very interesting ideas about what a good specimen on the breed is, I often wonder if they are the best people to judging as a specialist.

It's an interesting (and off-topic) conumdrum - is a breeder of a particular breed who may have some pre-defined preferences, the best person to objectively judge at specialty level or would it be better to have a judge involved in a very far removed breed judging at a specialty, using the standard as their guide and perhaps not having the pre-defined bias?

I'm not saying I'm right or that either option is the best resolution but it's something that's crossed my mind - I'd be interested to see what others (especially the more experienced campaigners or the judges themselves) think?

Edited July 6, 2011 by conztruct

[Rebanne]

Dont be confused Yarracully about where we lived - we lived in Sydney for sometime than moved to the mid west. Many people do that you know. As I said before you only need to attend One Speciality Show and be placed. By being placed at a Speciality it shows that your breeding is on the right track or not.

all well and good for those that have specialities for their dogs to compete at and the time and money to be able to attend.

[SparkyTansy]

Dont be confused Yarracully about where we lived - we lived in Sydney for sometime than moved to the mid west. Many people do that you know. As I said before you only need to attend One Speciality Show and be placed. By being placed at a Speciality it shows that your breeding is on the right track or not.

No it doesn't.

I agree with this.....as a relative newbie viewing breeders in my breed who have some very interesting ideas about what a good specimen on the breed is, I often wonder if they are the best people to judging as a specialist.

It's an interesting (and off-topic) conumdrum - is a breeder of a particular breed who may have some pre-defined preferences, the best person to objectively judge at specialty level or would it be better to have a judge involved in a very far removed breed judging at a specialty, using the standard as their guide and perhaps not having the pre-defined bias?

I'm not saying I'm right or that either option is the best resolution but it's something that's crossed my mind - I'd be interested to see what others (especially the more experienced campaigners or the judges themselves) think?

Conzstruct I agree - we had a specialty on the weekend and had a last minute change of judge. The judge who judged was not in the breed she was judging. She was, however, excellent. she went over the dogs extremely well. She still showed her preferences which were fine, but clearly went over every dog, comparing it to the standard. I had this same discussion with someone else that it isn't always a bad thing that the judge isn't exactly in the breed, as they go into judging of said breed with full understanding of the standard, and don't allow too much of their own opinions about preferences get in the way.

[Sandra777]

By being placed at a Speciality it shows that your breeding is on the right track or not.

This may or may not be true at GSD specialities, but in other breeds the placings at speciality shows can often differ hugely depending on the judge. Case in point, just 10 weeks ago we showed on the Saturday at a speciality show, entry of over 200 and everything we showed "went out with the rubbish". Sunday, again with an enty of over 200 we came home with a res CC and an in show award. The dogs' condition and conformation didn't change THAT much overnight

If we had taken our lead from the first day's judge our breeding was totally off, the second day, nearly the best :D

Both judges considered breed specialists - and we see this over and over again. Being a specialist judge doesn't mean you're going to agree with every other specialist judge anymore than allrounders do.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

It's an interesting (and off-topic) conumdrum - is a breeder of a particular breed who may have some pre-defined preferences, the best person to objectively judge at specialty level or would it be better to have a judge involved in a very far removed breed judging at a specialty, using the standard as their guide and perhaps not having the pre-defined bias?

It was explained to me this way, bearing in mind there are exceptions to every generalisation: the Specialists keep the All Breeds judges honest and the All Breeds judges keep the Specialists honest.

IOW, I think specialists are there to support the true type of their breed, ensuring that their breed doesn't lose breed specific attributes to a "generic show dog" look. The All Breeds judges see a huge range of dogs, and can separate the wood from the trees. I don't think either is superior, you just need to understand and appreciate what they each bring to judging.

And of course, you can get good and bad judges in either camp, and that's not to do with specialisation, it's to do with whether someone has integrity, education and an eye for a dog.

[Havasneeze]

Bottom line is: it's the Judges interpretation of the standard, on the day ;)

[OSoSwift]

I travel 475kms to a small country show, and 750kms to the city. To fly to anotehr state I either have a flight of $300 to get to the city, thenanother flight to wherever, or a 750km trip and then a flight.

I recently tried to get accomodation for two dogs two adults and two kids. IT was impossible. Luckily we ended up being able to stay in a family friends beach house.

The small country show I went to earlier in the year had in my bitches class a GrCh who is also DOL dog of the year for our state. The BIS line up included 4 GrCh that I knew of, and also a couple of specialty winners.

I would have been VERY happy if I had of beat that bitch and whilst not a 6 point challenge there was only 3 elidgable bitches on the day, so still a small challenge. The dog that won BIS had to beat dogs that win quite often in the city at Royals and in other states.

So while you would think that the champion title I might get with my bitch would be a cheap arse title not worth counting, I would be proud of it.

Oh and in the past I have taken dogs to specialties, flown to other states. Now my life is different and I do not have the money of the time to travel at least 750kms just to go to a city show.

Not a very well thought out argument.

[OSoSwift]

Oh and I know of a couple of people who have had challenges refused.

Jusges opinion on the day. If they believe the dogs deserves the points, then they do.

[D & D]

If you visit any Dog Shelter you will find many pure breed dogs that have been given up and or mistreated. About 90% of these animals will be PTS.

Do you have any references to back up these statements?

This than would help to improve the breeding and assist new owners in buying puppies of quality. Also it would greatly reduce the small breeders from indiscriminate breeding.

Er, how?

How on earth would making a title harder (or impossibel in some cases) to get reduce breeding?

Dodgy breeders aren't going to change just because their dogs aren't titled.

Maybe some more thinking this plan through is in order?

Yes I have Judged (Speciality Shows). Yes I do show GSDs and show at Speciality Shows Only (because I to Live In The County Where There Are Only a Few Shows a Year).

I have known people who lived in Perth,Darwin, Adelaide and Hobart who travel to Speciality Shows in Sydney and Newcastle so I cant understand the locality being such a handicap.

So, you only show at specialty shows because you live in the country? Seems like you don't want to travel but think that others should?

I've known people from Darwin to travel to their breed specialty shows, too. They did quite well

Personally, I'm not in a position to travel to a specialty show and find somewhat hypocritical of someone to judge me on that when they choose the shows they do because they 'live in the country'.

I see you've chosen not to answer any of my questions, so I've quoted them in case you missed them

[BilgaPhill]

I have been involved with Dogs all my life and joined the Kennel Club in 1971. My husband and I bred showed and judged Bull Terriers for many years and gained BIS etc at Speciality Shows and All Breeds alike. We left the dog world for some years and became members of Dogs NSW so 8 years ago. A little bit of my history before I start this new topic.

If you feel the need to create some credibility then you probably don't have any. In my view amply demonstrated here.

[Astese]

This thread has had some very good replies Thank your for your constructive imput. I opened this thread with a little of my history (as I had a idea that someone would get personal and not stay with the thread) and sure enough it became personal for only a couple of peoples. To those your questions did not warrant an answer. Our chosen sport is quite expensive and requires dedication and you need to be prepared for that if you are serious about breeding/showing dogs.

[poodlefan]

This thread has had some very good replies Thank your for your constructive imput. I opened this thread with a little of my history (as I had a idea that someone would get personal and not stay with the thread) and sure enough it became personal for only a couple of peoples. To those your questions did not warrant an answer. Our chosen sport is quite expensive and requires dedication and you need to be prepared for that if you are serious about breeding/showing dogs.

Of course anyone living in WA, Tasmania, the NT or remote from metro areas and specialty locations should have to haemorrhage financially to attend specialties - where they exist. Otherwise they lack "dedicaton".

I find that patronising in the extreme.

Edited July 7, 2011 by poodlefan

[OSoSwift]

Well said PF - we don't have a breed club and the closest a Specialty comes to me for our breed is SA - only around 3000kms or so from where I live!

I have a cattle farm and two small kids - but of course they should miss out because I HAVE to go to specialties!

[poodlefan]

Well said PF - we don't have a breed club and the closest a Specialty comes to me for our breed is SA - only around 3000kms or so from where I live!

I have a cattle farm and two small kids - but of course they should miss out because I HAVE to go to specialties!

Hope you're working on going to the next Nationals though Oso.. it will be a big

Otherwise, despite your farm, children and other commitments, I shall start to question your dedication as a breeder

[OSoSwift]

Hehehe :D

Oh I want to don't get me wrong, and we have relatives to catch up with in SA.

Just need to sort the budget, add a couple of kids to the travelling team and it costs quite a bit more - just for accomodation!

I am lucky though, I am 750kms closer than those leaving from Perth And we do have the odd direct flight from Kalgoorlie

I am hoping my lotto numbers may come up before then

Edited July 7, 2011 by OSoSwift

[conztruct]

This thread has had some very good replies Thank your for your constructive imput. I opened this thread with a little of my history (as I had a idea that someone would get personal and not stay with the thread) and sure enough it became personal for only a couple of peoples. To those your questions did not warrant an answer. Our chosen sport is quite expensive and requires dedication and you need to be prepared for that if you are serious about breeding/showing dogs.

I think it depends what you mean by dedication though. I know people who only do All Breed Shows and other who only do Specialties. Over 4 or so years of showing, I have been to a lot of all breed shows and only one specialty show. Am I less dedicated to my chosen sport if I go to 20 all breeds shows in a year, than a person who goes to 2 specialty shows, given that the judges at these shows are both licenced to judge the breed and these shows are open to the same competitors?

[Dogsfevr]

This thread has had some very good replies Thank your for your constructive imput. I opened this thread with a little of my history (as I had a idea that someone would get personal and not stay with the thread) and sure enough it became personal for only a couple of peoples. To those your questions did not warrant an answer. Our chosen sport is quite expensive and requires dedication and you need to be prepared for that if you are serious about breeding/showing dogs.

Actually i don't think you have an appreciation at all given the topic you have started & your lack of listening to what others have said

Appreciation covers ALL exhibitors irrespective of there chosen breed & numbers.

They pay the same amount of money,put the same amount of dedication in if in fact not more & have to put up with alot more rubbish from people who believe they have it easy.

Half the breeds shown wouldn't have breed clubs & certainly not in all states.

For many breeds that do breed restrictions regarding flying some breeds again makes it impossible or very hard to fly as they have a very set criteria to meet & some airlines won't fly certain breeds at all.

It isn't about making it personal its about people who start these threads with very popular breeds with no thought to the other people who don't have the same privileges that those breeds do.

There are many one off breeds that do more winning than many other breeds & without those rare/numerically small numbers shows would be very boring .

Those breeds deserve to be there .

I asked ages ago if you had ever refused a GSD when judging but i gather the answer is no ,it seems in the GSD world its easier to just give them a low grading than actually have the guts to no award a poor dog

Yet breeds who are far better reps to the breed standard should have harder restrictions placed on it ???

[D & D]

This thread has had some very good replies Thank your for your constructive imput. I opened this thread with a little of my history (as I had a idea that someone would get personal and not stay with the thread) and sure enough it became personal for only a couple of peoples. To those your questions did not warrant an answer. Our chosen sport is quite expensive and requires dedication and you need to be prepared for that if you are serious about breeding/showing dogs.

Of course anyone living in WA, Tasmania, the NT or remote from metro areas and specialty locations should have to haemorrhage financially to attend specialties - where they exist. Otherwise they lack "dedicaton".

I find that patronising in the extreme.

Well said

I just found it extremely rude..............