Tapua Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) Hi everyone my Labrador girl will be probably whelping pups in the double digets on or around 4/5 September. Tua successfully raised 12 last time and I didnt suppliment feed the pups - however I will this time - 12 was just too many! So which puppy milk do breeders find good for supplimening the pups. Biolac, Divetilac or Animalac? Also how much do you recommend each feed. I am only planning to suppliment ATM and I will rotate the pups routinely. Tua has 9 days to go she was 36kg two days after the mating and she is today 44kg. mmmm I used to average a guestimate at 500g per puppy & sack - that adds to 16 I doubt there is 16 there .... ugh I hope not! but certainly double digets. I will Xray Tua next Wednesday. All teats have colostrum in them now, she is well, healthy and content. After this litter goes I think I will book myself into the local psychiatric centre for a rest Edited August 27, 2011 by Tapua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstar Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I make up my own milk using 1 tin of evaporated milk to 1 tin of cooled boiled water. You can add an egg yolk if you like but I never have. This formula will last a week in the fridge. A pup weighing between 350g - 500g normally drinks between 20 -30mls but every pup differs. I just fill up the bottle and write down what each pup drinks (measurements are on the side of the bottle). I have tried other formulas and have found this one the best and have nice fat healthy babies. Good luck with your litter. Leanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 Thank Leanne I appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 We have just had a litter of 12 - now seven weeks old. We had to supplement for the first five or so days before mum's milk came in. I used Divetelac and added Impact Colostrum Supplement by Wombaroo. I had to tube feed as bottle feeding that many is just so time consuming. As it was I was lucky to have more than an hour's sleep at a time for that first week... But after the milk really arrived we didn't. What we did do though, to ensure everyone fed equally, was split the litter into two feeding shifts of six. So six would be in a heated box, while six were on mum. They were swapped every 2 hours, for most of the first two weeks. Intensive, yes. But much less intensive than hand raising. I actually found that the pups did really well. I think the two hours off mum means they get solid, warm and undisturbed sleep, which helps their development along as well. We did have a thread going as there were a few big litters around at the time: Management of Large Litters thread There's also another about increasing milk supply. We used Fenugreek with our bitch - and she had more than enough milk for the 12 pups. Increasing Milk Supply Thread Best of luck for your whelping and puppy raising. Photos are required... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) Yes I have the Fenugreek ready I was not planning to separate the pups specifically - I have a very large whelping box and can divide them in 1/2 within the box with mum seeing everything. I dont want to interfer if I can avoid it. I have never tube fed - I must admit unless someone shows me how to do it I am a bit scared to tube feeding. Anyone near Woody (near Cowra) with expereice tube feeding I would appreciate some help. Otherwise I will be supplimenting - Im OK about that. I will have a look at the colostrum suppliment too. Thanks for that info. Edited August 27, 2011 by Tapua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 There are some good tube feeding videos on youtube which can give you the idea, but it is something that you feel more comfortable with if someone takes you through it. It can be handy if pups are getting a little weak as they can't aspirate milk if the sucking reflex is depressed at all. Hopefully you should need minimal supplementing. If you do get really stuck needing to do lots, and don't have enough hours in the day to bottle feed you can try contacting your local Wildlife group and see if they have any carers trained in tube feeding. Worth a try. I learned it through wildlife rehab. Or your vet of course. But these things usually come up in the middle of the night don't they?? The Impact is great stuff. We got pretty ordinary upset stomachs too when mum had to have ABs for mastitis. Protexin etc wasn't helping, but the Impact did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) Cool will order the Impact today so we have everything we need. Meanwhile here is how life feels for Tua. Once upon a time she was trim taut and terrific Then she met Ben - and everything went south I know how she feels Edited August 27, 2011 by Tapua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underfoot Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 We had 11 puppies 5 weeks ago and we let mum feed them all with no topping up etc. We even had a runt 1/3 the size of the others that made it on his own. The only thing we did different is we started solids a little earlier. Most bitches should be able to cope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) Fingers crossed all goes well this time too and I dont need to interfer at all - that would be the best option - its just that she struggled with the last litter and I want to avoid any problems if I can this time - just being prepared. Edited August 28, 2011 by Tapua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I wouldn't top them up at all, unless they go backwards when weighed. They will drop weight in the first couple of days and they should then start gaining. Rotate the pups and make sure no one gets pushed aside. Look after the bitch and there's every chance she'll do all of the work and look after the pups. I've found a combination of either milk powder or veanavite, combined with an egg and water keeps the bitches hydrated and the milk supply coming. If you get desperate and have to supp some of the pups, go with Animalac, they gain better on that , then they do on biolac or divetalac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Oh Tua!! What a belly... I too feel for her... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I learn't to tube feed via youtube, I can now tube feed a snake antibiotics. Best advice I can give is, get everything you think you may need - Don't leave to the last minute as you won't have time, nor can you buy it in the middle of the night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 And don't forget lots of washing powder/liquid/napisan!! It's one thing I wouldn't have thought of until someone mentioned it on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) Yep thats what I trying to do - be prepared - as I said fingers crossed there is no need for any of it - but best not to get caught out eh ;) Edited August 28, 2011 by Tapua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Be Prepared - just like the Scouts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoiboy Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 And don't forget lots of washing powder/liquid/napisan!! It's one thing I wouldn't have thought of until someone mentioned it on here. It was a supprise to me as well!! Worked out that over 8 weeks when Wombat had 14 pups last year we used around 6 kgs of washing powder a week. I am afraid to actually add up what I spent on cleaning alone. Cheers Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Nup I wouldn't top them up at all .We always have a dozen or more pups in a Maremma litter and the bicthes do all the work without a top up. Topping them up means you are introducing other proteins and the more you top them up the less she makes. Its a supply and demand thing and Im against interupting nature any more than you need to. I believe it lowers their immune system. I do suppliment Mum with calf milk powder and loads of food and feed the pups with calf milk powder too when they are around 5 weeks to home time. The puppies see me coming now with a jug of warm milk and they love me Then they lay around in the sun happy and content - but they are 8 weeks old and had nothing but Mum until she told me it was time for them to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 My Lab girls usually do double digits, though 10 is most common. I have only topped up when mastitis caused nursing problems . . . or there was a runt who was getting pushed off so much that he/she needed a little help. Remember, newborns don't drink nearly as much milk as they will at 4 weeks. If you start giving them milk+clean ground meat at ~18 days, you can begin taking the pressure off the bitch as the pressure starts to get heavy. I would invest in a puppy litter feeding dish (see, eg. http://www.amazon.com/Puppy-Litter-Feeding-Dish-Inch/dp/B003VTQ0JM) cause it gets messy when they're learning to feed. These will handle nine pups or even 10, you may want two if you end up with a dozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Well after all my neurotic ranting the xrays say 8 maybe 9. Phew - bones well calcified, large though not extreeme pups sitting low in the pelvis.Might revise due date to Friday/Saturday rather than Sunday /Monday methingks. Tua is calm, content, has plenty of colostrum (has for a week) and waiting for the furry ones to spring forth Sleeping lots and not eating much. Message to self 'chill Pauline go have a Latte and relax!' - Things will get busy enough - soon enough :D thanks for everyones tips - I really hate large litters and dont feel confident with them - but willing to take advice and be prepared plus trust my bitch that she can manage - dispite me! Edited August 31, 2011 by Tapua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shellbyville Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Hope your puppies all arrive with no dramas. I had a lab girl that had 11 and didn't supplement feed, just made sure that I rotated the pups each feed making sure they all got their fair share. I did have one little girl that for a few days didn't seem to be as strong as the others, so I did top her up with a bottle using Divetelact for a few days until she started thriving. I did introduce solids younger than I would have, they were just under 3 weeks and they took to solids very well and they were all well and truly weaned by 6 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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