Mason_Gibbs Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I got my new pup this weekend and I want him to wait for a command to eat like my big lab does, however I never taught Mason to do this he has just always waited for me to say OK and then he eats. I have been trying to feed them at the same times - both outside on the alfresco. Gibbs the puppy goes crazy jumping up my leg trying to jump on the table where I am dishing the food etc. I feed Mason first and then I ask Gibbs to sit ( it can take awhile as he is howling, barking and jumping up at me). If he then gets frustrated he then runs and tries to eat the big dogs food. My new plan is to feed Gibbs inside and if he does not stop going crazy to just not put his bowl down until he calms down. Is this the right thing to do?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) I'm not sure if this is the right way to do it, but to teach Archie I would have him in a sit. I would hold his collar, put the food down and ask him to wait. The moment he was still I said he was free to eat his dinner. It didn't take long and he learnt that staying still would mean he would get his dinner. I slowly loosened my grip on his collar until one night I didn't have to hold it at all while he waited. ETA: This was a video I saw yesterday that might also be helpful if you are already using clicker training. http://www.youtube.com/user/zakgeorge21#p/search/1/8i-L3-gqWic Edited September 4, 2011 by Naomi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Thanks Naomi, I had a look at the TOT in the training thread and I am going to use this methode I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I used tot with mindy and she is totally reliable now, you can leave the room for several minutes and she will not eat until released. You have lots of drool to clean up if you do this though lol!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Once Zora was a little older (maybe 9 weeks?!) I started lowering her bowl and if she played up the bowl went back in the air. Then she would get told 'Take it' once it hit the floor and she could eat. I gradually built the time between the bowl on the floor and the command, and if she moved towards it the bowl went up - they learn quickly this way ;). She is now 16 weeks and will wait in a sit stay with eye contact on me until I verbally release her to her bowl, even when I am not standing near the bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundyburger Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) We did the same as Rally, now 95% of the time i can walk out of the room and he will not eat until I give the command. If he does break, he'll spit his dinner straight back out when he sees you and wait (he just looks at you like darn, i've been caught) If he didn't stop and think and kept eating, then he'd get it removed. Edited September 4, 2011 by Bundyburger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Thanks guys, just needed some advice as my older dog was always respectful and waited until told he can eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Does your new puppy really know what you mean, when you say "sit"? When I got my new puppy, there was to be no interaction with him at while ever he was jumping around. I taught him to sit & wait for his meal in tiny gradual steps...& it didn't take long for him to work it out, now he will sit & wait forever till I release him even if he thinks the other dog might get his meal...he will just not move, & I never have to tell him to sit, he just offers the behaviour. I started off by holding his dish up close to my chest & made eye contact with him & waited till he calmed down & he "offered" sit. Then I would gradually lower the dish & as soon as he moved, up the dish went again to my chest. At first I would only lower it a bit & if he staid still, I would quickly put it on the ground & say "get it". After probably half dozen meals I could then get it right down onto the ground before releasing him. But make sure you always release him before he moves, otherwise you are rewarding him for moving. Then extend the time he has to stay still before he gets released to his dish...don't make it too hard at first & don't test his boundaries. Try to always let him succeed by only increasing it a second at a time. Now at the age of 6 months, I never have to tell my pup to "sit" or "stay", he just knows that when I put my hands up to my chest (don't have to have anything in them), he plonks his bum on the floor & just will not move till I release him. I can dance around him, throw balls, talk to the fairies & he will not move a paw till I say "Ok". You are making it too hard for your pup to stay still, if you have him around while you are dishing up his food & really, really way too hard if he thinks the other dog might get it first. Don't set him up to fail. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) Mindy sounds like Gibbs- she was extremely greedy and desperate to eat! Which is why i went with TOT- the tieback means they can't fail and they don't associate not being allowed to eat with you (compared to if you physically held them back, took away the food or corrected them). I don't use the tie back anymore because she is really reliable. Mindy and TOT (dont mind my shoes lol) Edited September 4, 2011 by aussielover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Mindy sounds like Gibbs- she was extremely greedy and desperate to eat! Which is why i went with TOT- the tieback means they can't fail and they don't associate not being allowed to eat with you (compared to if you physically held them back, took away the food or corrected them). I don't use the tie back anymore because she is really reliable. Mindy and TOT (dont mind my shoes lol) I would say that TOT is what I practice with my pup, but I have taught it in a way where he has never needed to be tied up then released to his food. If you can shape your pup to learn the behaviour by "offering" then he will learn quicker & it will stay in his mind better than if you physically restrain him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I feed my pup in the crate...increases value for the crate and separates the pup safely from the older dogs at meal times. The problem with sit wait training for dinner is when you have multiple dogs...the older dogs find themselves waiting longer while you muck about with the puppy or you can find yourself compromising your training in order to give pup his meal. If you need to borrow a large crate I have one with a top but no floor you are welcome to. See my post on the WA thread. BTW nothing wrong with proper training self control for meals....just not convenient for me these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Mindy sounds like Gibbs- she was extremely greedy and desperate to eat! Which is why i went with TOT- the tieback means they can't fail and they don't associate not being allowed to eat with you (compared to if you physically held them back, took away the food or corrected them). I don't use the tie back anymore because she is really reliable. Mindy and TOT (dont mind my shoes lol) I would say that TOT is what I practice with my pup, but I have taught it in a way where he has never needed to be tied up then released to his food. If you can shape your pup to learn the behaviour by "offering" then he will learn quicker & it will stay in his mind better than if you physically restrain him. Each to his own... there are many diffrerent ways to teach the same behaviour ;) I'm aware you don't "need" a tie back to teach this particular behaviour but I found it an excellent way to teach self control as well as to teach them to settle on a tie back, which has really come in handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) I used to feeding our youngest in his crate when we first got him ... so I started with getting him to sit (easierly done by holding the bowl up over the head) and then telling him to wait with a finger through his collar. Put the bowl down and give him a release word as I let go of the collar. Kept doing this and then started waiting longer before releasing him. If he was bouncing around or carrying on then I just waited and he soon worked out the faster he sat quietly then the faster he got his bowl. Now the boys have a mat each - they get sent to their mats and must sit until I place the bowl and give them a release work to eat. Edited September 4, 2011 by Tilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I feed my pup in the crate...increases value for the crate and separates the pup safely from the older dogs at meal times. The problem with sit wait training for dinner is when you have multiple dogs...the older dogs find themselves waiting longer while you muck about with the puppy or you can find yourself compromising your training in order to give pup his meal. If you need to borrow a large crate I have one with a top but no floor you are welcome to. See my post on the WA thread. BTW nothing wrong with proper training self control for meals....just not convenient for me these days. I should have added there, that I have seperate areas to feed them both, but will often put their food up close to the barrier. The other dog doesn't need to wait for her dinner until I put her dish down, then she has to wait too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Mindy sounds like Gibbs- she was extremely greedy and desperate to eat! Which is why i went with TOT- the tieback means they can't fail and they don't associate not being allowed to eat with you (compared to if you physically held them back, took away the food or corrected them). I don't use the tie back anymore because she is really reliable. Mindy and TOT (dont mind my shoes lol) Just to note here - I personally don't see it as 'taking away the food' if you raise the food back up BEFORE you present it (i.e it hits the floor), you are simply giving the dog a choice. It behaves = it gets to eat dinner. It's like when you are training a trick ect, the dog does not associate not being able to get the treats in your treat bag with you, they learn to behave in a way you find desirable to earn those treats. (I know that is worded really poorly but hopefully you get my meaning Mas) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Mindy sounds like Gibbs- she was extremely greedy and desperate to eat! Which is why i went with TOT- the tieback means they can't fail and they don't associate not being allowed to eat with you (compared to if you physically held them back, took away the food or corrected them). I don't use the tie back anymore because she is really reliable. Mindy and TOT (dont mind my shoes lol) Just to note here - I personally don't see it as 'taking away the food' if you raise the food back up BEFORE you present it (i.e it hits the floor), you are simply giving the dog a choice. It behaves = it gets to eat dinner. It's like when you are training a trick ect, the dog does not associate not being able to get the treats in your treat bag with you, they learn to behave in a way you find desirable to earn those treats. (I know that is worded really poorly but hopefully you get my meaning Mas) Thankyou RallyVally, at last someone that agrees with me. You put it very nicely. I have found this method has created a very well mannered puppy & he has the most fabulous stay, during all distractions, not just at dinner time. His startline stays for agility, are fantastic & he is not quite 6 months old. To him, it's a game, & he loves it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Mindy sounds like Gibbs- she was extremely greedy and desperate to eat! Which is why i went with TOT- the tieback means they can't fail and they don't associate not being allowed to eat with you (compared to if you physically held them back, took away the food or corrected them). I don't use the tie back anymore because she is really reliable. Mindy and TOT (dont mind my shoes lol) Just to note here - I personally don't see it as 'taking away the food' if you raise the food back up BEFORE you present it (i.e it hits the floor), you are simply giving the dog a choice. It behaves = it gets to eat dinner. It's like when you are training a trick ect, the dog does not associate not being able to get the treats in your treat bag with you, they learn to behave in a way you find desirable to earn those treats. (I know that is worded really poorly but hopefully you get my meaning Mas) Thankyou RallyVally, at last someone that agrees with me. You put it very nicely. I have found this method has created a very well mannered puppy & he has the most fabulous stay, during all distractions, not just at dinner time. His startline stays for agility, are fantastic & he is not quite 6 months old. To him, it's a game, & he loves it Hey Sheena, I hope u didnt get the impression that I disagree with your method I do think TOT is effective and as I said before it was also uselful to teach accepting tieback- very important for my dog who was a guide dog pup and had to come with me everywhere and was tied up under my desk at work etc. It is also good for agility training where it is impractical to carry a crate around everywhere. I think your method also sounds very sensible, I trained my prevoius dog in the same way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 What is the TOT method? I've never heard of it before. When I first got Kirah I found it easier to just let her eat her food without a wait command, however, Zeus did have to sit and wait until released. As she got older I tired if her charging at the bowl before it was on the ground so I decided it was time to start training her to wait too. They both get fed at the same time so at first juggling two bowls and a greedy puppy was hard but I soon realised I could carry both bowls in the one hand and still block Kirah from them. All I did was place Zeus's bowl on the ground on "his" side (the right) while holding my hand in front of Kirah's face, blocking her from moving forward. Then her bowl was placed on the ground (on "her" side which is about 50cm to the left of Zeus's bowl) while I was still blocking her. She wasn't allowed forward until she was calm and no longer trying to get around my hand and when this happened I said "OK", which is Zeus's release command. I continued with this method and now both Zeus and Kirah sit and wait for their breakfast and dinner; Kirah sits on Zeus's left side and they both know where each of their bowls are -- although I'm now tempted to put Kirah's bowl on the right and Zeus's on the left to be annoying! :D They both sit the same distance away from their bowls and both look at me waiting for the "OK". It's so cute to see them together like that! And I also love that I don't have to say anything to them before they get their food -- they both know that if they want their food they sit so the only word I have to say is "OK" to let them know they've done good! I love how smart dogs are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 TOT is triangle of temptation, it is avail in the training forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atanquin Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I use the word wait!! I started by having my hand on his chest as I put the bowl on the floor then would ask for sit and at first I would have to hold his bum on the ground then ask for wait, wait about 5 seconds then say okay and let him eat he will slowly begin to understand why you want and change it as he gets better if he starts to creep forward then pick up the bowl ask for sit then wait then place the bowl on the found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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