stonecutter Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 i'm very new to showing and never seen it but i've heard people talk about it and didn't know if it was real or sour grapes, then again i'm in a wheelchair and show my own dog who seems to do well and i've heard people say i only get the sympathy vote That's shocking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 i'm very new to showing and never seen it but i've heard people talk about it and didn't know if it was real or sour grapes, then again i'm in a wheelchair and show my own dog who seems to do well and i've heard people say i only get the sympathy vote Don't worry, they also say that when they have been flogged hands down by a child and their dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaar Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 There was a lady here in Tas who used to show her dogs in one of those mobility scooters, most people just marvelled at how well trained they were trotting alongside it. You also have the "judge must have been a perve" or the "Oh he's gay so he put up the other gay guy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz3 Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 i'm very new to showing and never seen it but i've heard people talk about it and didn't know if it was real or sour grapes, then again i'm in a wheelchair and show my own dog who seems to do well and i've heard people say i only get the sympathy vote That's shocking it doesn't overly bother me i think it tells me a lot about the person saying it, i also have a stafford so already have thick skin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the far north Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Face judging really.. No way!! dont know about my face but I have been called an arse occasionally , but I have collected a few fringies along the way being called that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benshiva Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I haven't experienced it yet, but my neighbour used to show BCs and a particular exhibitor would always wear a green suit, knew most of the judges and always won. At a show, this exhibitor was absent and my neighbour happened to wear a suit in the same shade of green and already had a similar hairstyle - barely a look at the entries and my neighbour got the win I certainly hope you're not talking about a VERY good friend of mine who wears (or used to wear) green suits and wins VERY consistently. You know why she wins, her dogs are freaking FANTASTIC examples of the breed. She is not an all breeds judge, so nobody owes her anything Just putting it out there in case it is my friend that this was aimed at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onetree Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I haven't experienced it yet, but my neighbour used to show BCs and a particular exhibitor would always wear a green suit, knew most of the judges and always won. At a show, this exhibitor was absent and my neighbour happened to wear a suit in the same shade of green and already had a similar hairstyle - barely a look at the entries and my neighbour got the win I certainly hope you're not talking about a VERY good friend of mine who wears (or used to wear) green suits and wins VERY consistently. You know why she wins, her dogs are freaking FANTASTIC examples of the breed. She is not an all breeds judge, so nobody owes her anything Just putting it out there in case it is my friend that this was aimed at I agree with Benshiva. For me it doesn't matter what you look like or wear or even your name it really does go based on your dog. And this is my own experience showing a red BC I knew I wasn't going to have any luck not based on the colour of the dog or what I looked like it was based on my dogs conformation and structure. She didn't make the grade and I always presented well. There seems to be a lot of discussion on biased judges but they wouldn't be asked back to judge if they were that way inclined. Just my opinion and I'm not that experienced with breed showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 (edited) Some people do have and breed good dogs and win consistently. Some people do have sour grapes, love to whinge and need to be less 'kennel blind'. Face judging does happen I am sure, but not as frequently or to the extent that some people would have you think. I always remember the quote below by Mary Roslin Williams in her book 'Reaching for the Stars': "...what the ringside can't see and might not know enough to realise, is that the judge may find that the ringsider's choice does not stand looking into, the basic conformation or some other essential being wrong. But the judge finds the top breeder's dog in the same class does not fall to bits under his hands, so up goes the breeder's dog and down the ringsiders choice. Here comes the crunch because the ringsiders demur, and agree among themselves that once again wrong has triumphed and the top 'name' has won and there is no justice or honesty in the game. This is a very big millstone, because the novice listens to others instead of looking to see why the winner went up. The middle-ranger is all too glad to find an excuse for his own lack of top wins, so instead of looking at his dog and also looking at the top dogs, he joins in with the novices and comes in time to subscribe to the idea that 'names' win because they are 'names'. Once he really comes to beleive this he will be a middle-ranger forever, because he will never discover why the good breeders' dogs win. For many years I have seen promising novices come up into the middle-ranges and have felt hopeful that they would eventually become good breeders and my heart has sunk because they have come up and said that very thing, that 'Mrs Blank can win with anything'. As soon as they start thinking that, I have no further hope for them. They have mentally evaded the issue that it takes a better dog to win." Edited September 16, 2011 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I haven't experienced it yet, but my neighbour used to show BCs and a particular exhibitor would always wear a green suit, knew most of the judges and always won. At a show, this exhibitor was absent and my neighbour happened to wear a suit in the same shade of green and already had a similar hairstyle - barely a look at the entries and my neighbour got the win I certainly hope you're not talking about a VERY good friend of mine who wears (or used to wear) green suits and wins VERY consistently. You know why she wins, her dogs are freaking FANTASTIC examples of the breed. She is not an all breeds judge, so nobody owes her anything Just putting it out there in case it is my friend that this was aimed at benshiva - I have no idea as this was about 30 years ago - I wasn't given the name of the person. Maybe it was a pure coincidence? It was the only BOB this dog ever got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilaryo Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I haven't experienced it yet, but my neighbour used to show BCs and a particular exhibitor would always wear a green suit, knew most of the judges and always won. At a show, this exhibitor was absent and my neighbour happened to wear a suit in the same shade of green and already had a similar hairstyle - barely a look at the entries and my neighbour got the win I have heard a similar story about a breed exhibitor who always wore a particular colour.. and how all the other exhibitors in that breed turned up in it at one show. Judge didn't know who to pick. Love it! Yeah face judging happens quite a bit....but you also hear exhibitors say "oh that judge is so facey" but in reality it is not face judging just a better example of the breed being put up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoPaws Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 i'm very new to showing and never seen it but i've heard people talk about it and didn't know if it was real or sour grapes, then again i'm in a wheelchair and show my own dog who seems to do well and i've heard people say i only get the sympathy vote Don't worry, they also say that when they have been flogged hands down by a child and their dog Yep my young bitch and my young daughter (who is very much a novice) have got this recently. What they didn't see was a week later I took the same young bitch out and got a 25 point BOB and an inter in group from an international judge. i'm very new to showing and never seen it but i've heard people talk about it and didn't know if it was real or sour grapes, then again i'm in a wheelchair and show my own dog who seems to do well and i've heard people say i only get the sympathy vote That's shocking it doesn't overly bother me i think it tells me a lot about the person saying it, i also have a stafford so already have thick skin Fantastic attitude b3 Does face judging happen, yes sometimes, do I care, nope, their loss not mine, they don't get to see my beautiful dogs . I have just done a months entries and am only not entering one show because I am 99% sure one judge is facey. Seven other shows and judges are getting entries from me. I'll spend the day making my property fire proof and letting the dogs run round the paddocks instead. Vote with your feet, there are 100s of honest judges who deserve our entries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benshiva Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I haven't experienced it yet, but my neighbour used to show BCs and a particular exhibitor would always wear a green suit, knew most of the judges and always won. At a show, this exhibitor was absent and my neighbour happened to wear a suit in the same shade of green and already had a similar hairstyle - barely a look at the entries and my neighbour got the win I certainly hope you're not talking about a VERY good friend of mine who wears (or used to wear) green suits and wins VERY consistently. You know why she wins, her dogs are freaking FANTASTIC examples of the breed. She is not an all breeds judge, so nobody owes her anything Just putting it out there in case it is my friend that this was aimed at benshiva - I have no idea as this was about 30 years ago - I wasn't given the name of the person. Maybe it was a pure coincidence? It was the only BOB this dog ever got. Maybe it was coincidence. But it does sound very familiar to me and I needed to come out in defence of my friend whom as stated is NOT a judge and owes nobody any favours and wins because her dogs are brilliant. No face judging happening there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 (edited) Seriously now..... I dont believe that face judging exists. I have been showing dogs for 35 years and have never witnessed this happening Yeah right that would be in a perfect world Edited September 16, 2011 by Bullbreedlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Maybe it was coincidence. But it does sound very familiar to me and I needed to come out in defence of my friend whom as stated is NOT a judge and owes nobody any favours and wins because her dogs are brilliant. No face judging happening there! I don't think a person has to be a judge to be a 'face', to me it is a person who has a reputation of winning. --------------- Yes, I see face judging happening, particularly noticeable when you have judges who will be doing your breed in the next few months hanging around the breed ring to see who is getting put up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benshiva Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Maybe it was coincidence. But it does sound very familiar to me and I needed to come out in defence of my friend whom as stated is NOT a judge and owes nobody any favours and wins because her dogs are brilliant. No face judging happening there! I don't think a person has to be a judge to be a 'face', to me it is a person who has a reputation of winning. --------------- Yes, I see face judging happening, particularly noticeable when you have judges who will be doing your breed in the next few months hanging around the breed ring to see who is getting put up and what if that person who isn't a judge and wins because they have fantastic dogs?? Seems you can't please anyone. To those that bitch and moan about people winning, breed a better dog! I will not stand by and have things said about someone I am very close to. I happen to know this person's dogs win on their own merits and not because she is a face. How is it that when I show her dogs they still win? They also win consistently under international judges as well. She must get around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Maybe it was coincidence. But it does sound very familiar to me and I needed to come out in defence of my friend whom as stated is NOT a judge and owes nobody any favours and wins because her dogs are brilliant. No face judging happening there! I don't think a person has to be a judge to be a 'face', to me it is a person who has a reputation of winning. --------------- Yes, I see face judging happening, particularly noticeable when you have judges who will be doing your breed in the next few months hanging around the breed ring to see who is getting put up But I don't think that story reflects badly on the person who originally wore green IMO. It reflects poorly on the judge who just assumed that they BC person in the Green suit always wins so I will put them up. That judge should have looked at the dogs he was judging and realised it was not quality. Sometimes it isn't the exhibitors fault that they are being positively face judged either I guess. Your friend doesn't look for it but enough GOOD judges have seen her dogs quality so the ones who are not as good don't bother to think for themselves. I think face judging can also reflect judges who don't know breed standards, are a little lazy or not confident in their own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Perhaps it should not reflect badly on the original exhibitor in green or any of the judges. It could be that exbibitor B's dogs were never good enough to beat exhibitor A's and in the absence of exhibitor A, judges had to put something up, regardless of what coloured suit they were wearing. Perhaps exhibitor B , was the best of the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 A few examples of judging - As secretary of an Ag show, one year I was stuck for one Group judge and ended up getting someone who had the reputation of being facey. I was told by a lot of exhibitors that this person wouldn't draw an entry - ended up being the biggest entry for that Group for years Word was spread by one exhibitor that "no good anyone entering this particular country show as he/she had it sown up, friend of the judge for years". So gathered up a few dogs and made the trip, came home with BIG and Baby in Group - Other exhibitor came home with 'egg on face' My first Champ. judging appointment - Group I showed in and one exhibitor with a heavily coated breed was always very prominent. Did he/she know all these Judges? I had a large number to judge and the best dog (IMO) was that exhibitors! So maybe I was accused of being 'facey'? ;) A while ago I was showing a top winning girl, seldom came home without a fringy. Friend(?) said it was because I knew the Judges! Where I showed had 90% Interstate Judges, didn't know any of them, the couple of Vic Judges that did judge in that circuit, didn't do much under them. Stewarded for a Judge who told me early in the breeds 'that is my Group winner'! Came to Group and exhibitor missed her call - poor Judge had to find another BIG There's quite a few more stories but guess I've bored you long enough - Dog Showing is a funny game - essential you have a sense of humour :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I have one story that was worth a laugh Exbibitor XXX was entered, Judge yyyy was of course expected and would have put up XXX. Judge proceeded through the group and some very ugly and strange choices wents up, including dogs that could barely win a thing any other day. Judge gets to the breed at the end of the group expecting to see XXX, who didn't show up. Judge had put up a really ordinary dog for CC, before realising that XXX wasn't there. Judge then put up a very nice bitch and gave it BOB Judge left herself with a really ordinary looking BIG line up and and damn fine bitch at the end of it, that stood out like dogs balls Judge would have looked even more of a tool if it didn't get put up for the group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Lassy Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Seriously now..... I dont believe that face judging exists. I have been showing dogs for 35 years and have never witnessed this happening Yeah right that would be in a perfect world You had me going there for a little while!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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