Blonde_Phoenix Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 It is unacceptable behaviour actually. A spray with water or perhaps a loud noise should stop the behaviour, it's about dominance and can lead to fights but also not pleasant for the dog being dominated. Not if your dog is a stud or for breeding dog. Yes its about dominance, but yelling, and strongly correcting breeding animals for acting on thier sexual urges can put them off when the time comes to do the deed! If you don't believe me, we just had an incident at a mating where a male dog who would get into trouble through his younger years for humping a teddy bear, and his brother, even sometimes playfully corrected, was so confused that he refused to do the 'deed' with his owner present. He was so confused and kept looking to her for the ok, but no matter how positive she was, he had been led to believe that acting on his sexual urges is wrong. The mating happened fine without intervention from the owners, but as soon as she stepped in to assist with the tie he would dismount and try and get reassurance. But if there not breeding animals then yes, for all means correct the behaviour, or better yet, get the animal desexed as i believe all dogs who are not breeding/show animals should be. Desexing reduces the amount of testosterone/oestreogen in the animals system, thus reducing the animals sexual desires. At my house, our little girl humps our baby boy, and the boy returns the favour in equal amounts. I just laugh it off, as they both are show dogs, and we are planning to maybe breed them in the future. While I do agree that correction of a dog intended for breeding could/would result in a level of confusion and anxiety (particularly if the corrector is present), I don't agree completely that there is a need to desex a dog or bitch who not intended for breeding. From what I have observed you would need to desex very early to completely eliminate sexual urges, if you could at all, and desexing may not be in the best interests of the dogs physical development. I see no issue with a dog not intended for breeding remaining entire on the proviso the owner understands their responsibilities. In my case my boy has four brothers, three of which are shown and two are battling it out for the breeds rising star (go boys ). So it's highly unlikely he'd be called on to do the deed to benefit his breed (dispite the fact he is clearly the best of all of them ;) ). When he is closer to the age at which his breeder has recommend desexing we will have a discussion, I do not see why he should necessarily be desexed if I feel I can prevent him from producing a litter, but of course if his breeder disagrees I will gladly honour our original agreement without question. Having said that if I felt my situation has changed and I could not give that guarantee his jewels would be on the cutting block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I have an amusing humping pic Ive been waiting to post.. Is that ok? This is Bundy making a bitch out of the lamb No I don't think that's OK, I don't see anything funny about allowing one animal to harass another. As for those of you who breed/show - please read the original post again - they are normal pets, they are both desexed. I did not answer with regards to breeding/showing dogs. I would expect them to have normal urges but unless breeding, I'd also expect owners of undesexed dogs to prevent issues because it's a huge responsibility. And yes - I've had both undesexed dogs here plus bitches on heat. You CAN desex male dogs later in life and remove the sexual urge - I've had 2 out of 4 desexed males show zero interest in a bitch on heat. the other two were interested and fought so, as a responsible owner, I separate the dogs and got the bitch desexed asap but then I'm also rehoming rescue dogs and would never rehome an undesexed dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topoftheheap Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 our little girl humps our baby boy, you may want to write this in a manner which indicates that they are dogs .... true, but i thought that may be particularly obvious! there both still baby puppies. otherwise that is an UNACCEPTABLE behaviour!!!! lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVERI Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It has nothing to do with sexual urges. animals do not see sex the same way us humans do. often its no different to play or a act of communication. I'd say here the female is trying to work her way up in the pack, rafter then commit a sexual act. Having breed horses for many years i have seen many foals both male and female mount their mothers and other foals in the paddock. this is just play. Im sure any animal that finds it harassing will quickly let the offender know. i don't agree that they should be punished for doing something thats natural and a part of their communication. i find by just saying "guys knock it off" they stop anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) Mandimoore - I haven't just made this up or imagined it - it is advice from qualified dog behaviouralists and trainers and it isn't always about sexual urge, it can be about dominance. Edited December 1, 2011 by dogmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVERI Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) no pack or heard animal is ever equal. There is always going to be one more dominate than the other/others. here its just two dogs working out who's top dog. but if you had say 3 or 4 then each would have its place from number 1 top dog to 4th in line. its natural and would be un natural to punish them for doing it as long as no one is getting hurt. if you disapprove of it i think it better to just tell them to quit it is far better then spraying them! and if your dog has a habbit of doing it to other dogs in the park etc then don't let them off the lead. Edited December 1, 2011 by DAVERI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topoftheheap Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It is unacceptable behaviour actually. A spray with water or perhaps a loud noise should stop the behaviour, it's about dominance and can lead to fights but also not pleasant for the dog being dominated. Not if your dog is a stud or for breeding dog. Yes its about dominance, but yelling, and strongly correcting breeding animals for acting on thier sexual urges can put them off when the time comes to do the deed! If you don't believe me, we just had an incident at a mating where a male dog who would get into trouble through his younger years for humping a teddy bear, and his brother, even sometimes playfully corrected, was so confused that he refused to do the 'deed' with his owner present. He was so confused and kept looking to her for the ok, but no matter how positive she was, he had been led to believe that acting on his sexual urges is wrong. The mating happened fine without intervention from the owners, but as soon as she stepped in to assist with the tie he would dismount and try and get reassurance. But if there not breeding animals then yes, for all means correct the behaviour, or better yet, get the animal desexed as i believe all dogs who are not breeding/show animals should be. Desexing reduces the amount of testosterone/oestreogen in the animals system, thus reducing the animals sexual desires. At my house, our little girl humps our baby boy, and the boy returns the favour in equal amounts. I just laugh it off, as they both are show dogs, and we are planning to maybe breed them in the future. While I do agree that correction of a dog intended for breeding could/would result in a level of confusion and anxiety (particularly if the corrector is present), I don't agree completely that there is a need to desex a dog or bitch who not intended for breeding. From what I have observed you would need to desex very early to completely eliminate sexual urges, if you could at all, and desexing may not be in the best interests of the dogs physical development. I see no issue with a dog not intended for breeding remaining entire on the proviso the owner understands their responsibilities. In my case my boy has four brothers, three of which are shown and two are battling it out for the breeds rising star (go boys ). So it's highly unlikely he'd be called on to do the deed to benefit his breed (dispite the fact he is clearly the best of all of them ;) ). When he is closer to the age at which his breeder has recommend desexing we will have a discussion, I do not see why he should necessarily be desexed if I feel I can prevent him from producing a litter, but of course if his breeder disagrees I will gladly honour our original agreement without question. Having said that if I felt my situation has changed and I could not give that guarantee his jewels would be on the cutting block. If you are a responsible pet owner, which obviously you are, there are no problems. However, not everyone is a responsible pet owner. And there are far too many puppies in the world than responsible homes for them. Im not against you or your opinions I just have a strongly held belief that if you are not actively breeding or showing a dog it should be desexed. No discrimination against anyone, its just my personal belief. If a dog is not on main register then it should be desexed at an age that is appropriate and agreed by with your breeder. There are far too many irresponsible people out there who have dogs and are only too prepared to have a litter for the sake of it, or for the money. We were just recently contacted by someone who met us at a dog show and told us they had a pure breed dog that they would like to breed with one of our boys. We investigated but once the papers were sent to us it turned out that the dog was on limited. We contacted the breeder who had bred the bitch and it turned out that she had a desex clause on her contract of sale, however the person had evaded all contact and had moved with the dog. And now they were actively seeking males to service her so, and this is a quote from the owner, 'they could make 7 times the investment back on the puppies!!!) There are so many situations that exist in the world, where dogs are PTS, or have to live in shelters because people have bred too many pups for the world. I also see no point in keeping dogs entire if they are not breeding or show animals. There are many health benefits that are felt by the dog, and the owner, that for the life of me i don't understand it! And you may be able to prevent him having a litter, but there are people out there that just don't care, and that's why I believe there should be blanket legislation covering this. Plus there are reasons that breeders ask for the animals to be desexed, and put on limited and that is usually because they feel that there is no benefit to the BREED to have that animal be bred from, and in some instances there are serious hereditary and health reasons why a pup should not be bred from. But i do agree with you that desexing does not completely remove the animals sexual desire/impulses but it is proven that it does reduce the amount of sexual hormones released by the animal and therefore helps a little bit, if not a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topoftheheap Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Mandimoore - I haven't just made this up or imagined it - it is advice from qualified dog behaviouralists and trainers and it isn't always about sexual urge, it can be about dominance. Im not saying that it isn't about dominance. But it also can be about a pup, dog or bitch exploring and acting on natural urges given to the animal. And im not making that up either. As the op said that her animals are desexed, as she is a responsible pet owner, the comment i made about show/breeding animals is beside the point~! Your blanket statement made it sound as though every time a dog humps another it is dominating it, and that just isn't true as im sure your trainers would agree, and punishing a dog for acting on a natural instinct just because humans see it as wrong is not right. In every relationship there are dominant/submissive positions, and to rule out all signs of dominance is not only impossible, but is is destroying the natural order of thing that we as humans have engrained into our animals over thousands of years! Just as long as YOU are top of the pack and the dog is not humping you i don't see any problem with it! there just acting and relieving thier sexual urges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topoftheheap Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I have an amusing humping pic Ive been waiting to post.. Is that ok? This is Bundy making a bitch out of the lamb No I don't think that's OK, I don't see anything funny about allowing one animal to harass another. As for those of you who breed/show - please read the original post again - they are normal pets, they are both desexed. I did not answer with regards to breeding/showing dogs. I would expect them to have normal urges but unless breeding, I'd also expect owners of undesexed dogs to prevent issues because it's a huge responsibility. And yes - I've had both undesexed dogs here plus bitches on heat. You CAN desex male dogs later in life and remove the sexual urge - I've had 2 out of 4 desexed males show zero interest in a bitch on heat. the other two were interested and fought so, as a responsible owner, I separate the dogs and got the bitch desexed asap but then I'm also rehoming rescue dogs and would never rehome an undesexed dog. Sorry, I did not see the part about the dogs already desexed, so my comment is not relevant! I think there just exploring there sexual urges! Good on them for finding an outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blonde_Phoenix Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 If you are a responsible pet owner, which obviously you are, there are no problems. However, not everyone is a responsible pet owner. And there are far too many puppies in the world than responsible homes for them. Im not against you or your opinions I just have a strongly held belief that if you are not actively breeding or showing a dog it should be desexed. No discrimination against anyone, its just my personal belief. If a dog is not on main register then it should be desexed at an age that is appropriate and agreed by with your breeder. There are far too many irresponsible people out there who have dogs and are only too prepared to have a litter for the sake of it, or for the money. We were just recently contacted by someone who met us at a dog show and told us they had a pure breed dog that they would like to breed with one of our boys. We investigated but once the papers were sent to us it turned out that the dog was on limited. We contacted the breeder who had bred the bitch and it turned out that she had a desex clause on her contract of sale, however the person had evaded all contact and had moved with the dog. And now they were actively seeking males to service her so, and this is a quote from the owner, 'they could make 7 times the investment back on the puppies!!!) There are so many situations that exist in the world, where dogs are PTS, or have to live in shelters because people have bred too many pups for the world. I also see no point in keeping dogs entire if they are not breeding or show animals. There are many health benefits that are felt by the dog, and the owner, that for the life of me i don't understand it! And you may be able to prevent him having a litter, but there are people out there that just don't care, and that's why I believe there should be blanket legislation covering this. Plus there are reasons that breeders ask for the animals to be desexed, and put on limited and that is usually because they feel that there is no benefit to the BREED to have that animal be bred from, and in some instances there are serious hereditary and health reasons why a pup should not be bred from. But i do agree with you that desexing does not completely remove the animals sexual desire/impulses but it is proven that it does reduce the amount of sexual hormones released by the animal and therefore helps a little bit, if not a lot. I think we are risking sliding very from the OP, but I’m quite interested in this topic so I don’t think I can help myself. I completely agree not every pet owner is responsible, but I don’t think desexing legislation is the answer. I think more often that not legislation punishes the responsible while the irresponsible will just continue to do as they please, you can’t legislate against dumb. How would or could such a legislation be enforced? What would constitute a ‘breeder’? There is a lot more to consider than just legislate it. I lean more towards greater public education, help people understand where and how they can get there puppies and why they should not be paying insane prices for puppies of questionable background. I think this would remove the financial drive which seems to be behind a lot of the more undesirable ‘breeding’ practices. I also don’t believe from my research that there is health benefits for or against desexing (at least not significant ones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) Blonde Phoenix - I'd recommend you do some more reading on the health benefits of a dog being desexed. I'm not sure how many undesexed females die of pyometra I'd say it is very common - only last week I was speaking to an owner who very much loved their dog, since they were a puppy and they were now around 10, suddenly became quiet - it was pyometra and she didn't make it. It's not just dogs roaming in the streets with bad owners (rescue groups see it all the time, I've had 2 fosters alone with it this year) but also in homes of otherwise responsible owners. Have a look at the risk of prostate cancer for undesexed males. I just rescued a male dog and he was too far gone to save with a "peritoneal hernia" - read up about that, it was an education to me as I'd never heard of it but the main cause is being an older undesexed male. Not lecturing but just suggesting that you read up on these illnesses that are very significant for the undesexed animal. I work in rescue and see the sad results. Edited December 1, 2011 by dogmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blonde_Phoenix Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Blonde Phoenix - I'd recommend you do some more reading on the health benefits of a dog being desexed. I'm not sure how many undesexed females die of pyometra I'd say it is very common - only last week I was speaking to an owner who very much loved their dog, since they were a puppy and they were now around 10, suddenly became quiet - it was pyometra and she didn't make it. It's not just dogs roaming in the streets with bad owners (rescue groups see it all the time, I've had 2 fosters alone with it this year) but also in homes of otherwise responsible owners. Have a look at the risk of prostate cancer for undesexed males. I just rescued a male dog and he was too far gone to save with a "peritoneal hernia" - read up about that, it was an education to me as I'd never heard of it but the main cause is being an older undesexed male. Not lecturing but just suggesting that you read up on these illnesses that are very significant for the undesexed animal. I work in rescue and see the sad results. Don't worry I don't consider it lecturing I'm always happy to learn more and more than happy for suggestions of things to look into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieDog Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 My girl tries to hump my boy normally after a big play session with him. I always assumed she was trying to be the boss. If i catch her i yell her name and she normally than sulks off. I do nothing else until the next time i catch her. Both dogs are desexed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I don't think humping is always a problem. Sometimes I think humping is more distressing for the humans than for the dogs! Although i wouldn't think it wise to go around letting your dog hump other dogs at will either. My desexed bitch encourages certain male dogs to hump her; so evidently she doesn't see it as a problem. My male puppy used to hump a giant-sized plush Nemo toy. I certainly don't think that this was a problem. And i don't think it stemmed from a desire to dominate an inanimate object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Both my dogs are desexed and they both still hump each other during play sometimes. I really don't see the big deal to be completely honest . I would NEVER let my dog hump another dog, even a friends/families dog, as it is just rude, but if my two are playing and one of them has a bit of a hump, jeez, if I worried about things like that I wouldn't get through the day. On the subject of toys, my Mum's little 16 year old Chi, Chip, has a turtle toy that he throws around and humps, hilarious. He's also desexed so I really don't think that has much to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) Blonde Phoenix - I'd recommend you do some more reading on the health benefits of a dog being desexed. I'm not sure how many undesexed females die of pyometra I'd say it is very common - only last week I was speaking to an owner who very much loved their dog, since they were a puppy and they were now around 10, suddenly became quiet - it was pyometra and she didn't make it. It's not just dogs roaming in the streets with bad owners (rescue groups see it all the time, I've had 2 fosters alone with it this year) but also in homes of otherwise responsible owners. Have a look at the risk of prostate cancer for undesexed males. I just rescued a male dog and he was too far gone to save with a "peritoneal hernia" - read up about that, it was an education to me as I'd never heard of it but the main cause is being an older undesexed male. Not lecturing but just suggesting that you read up on these illnesses that are very significant for the undesexed animal. I work in rescue and see the sad results. I certainly don't want to lecture either, but having done a lot of research on the topic (as the owner of an entire male dog), I have to disagree with your claims. There are very few studies (I haven't found any personally) that have found desexing to be in the best interests of the animal's health. The more recent ones however are disturbingly finding links between aggression and neuter status - that is to say, the neutered females in particular are vastly over-represented in bite statistics. Of concern to me also was the fact that neutering the dog has been linked to earlier and more severe mental depreciation as they age. I advocate desexing because most people probably shouldn't own dogs in the first place (because they're not prepared and don't understand what having a dog will mean for them) and they certainly shouldn't be breeding them, not because I think it's best for the individual dog. Here are a couple of links to more recent studies for anyone who is interested. http://time4dogs.blogspot.com/search?q=neuter "Spaying (ovariectomy or ovariohysterectomy) has been shown to reduce unwanted pregnancies, prevent pyometra and decrease the risk of mammary gland tumors in female dogs and cats. However, increased tendency to develop obesity may occur in either species. In dogs, an increased incidence of certain cancers, aggressiveness, sedentary behavior, and urinary incontinence may develop after spaying." And this article (not academic though) that really sums up my views nicely. http://time4dogs.blogspot.com/search?q=neuter Edited to add: dogmad, the writer of this article above used to work in a shelter and used to feel the same as you too. Edited December 2, 2011 by jacqui835 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Both my BC's male & female are desexed, 3.5 & 1 year old. The male has never humped anything but my little girl humps him sometimes during their afternoon zoomie hour but she never does it any other time. I just think it is over excitment really. I don't worry about it & if she annoy's Sonny he soon puts her in her place. A quick growl & she stops straight away. She always mounts his side though, she's a funny one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Both my BC's male & female are desexed, 3.5 & 1 year old. The male has never humped anything but my little girl humps him sometimes during their afternoon zoomie hour but she never does it any other time. I just think it is over excitment really. I don't worry about it & if she annoy's Sonny he soon puts her in her place. A quick growl & she stops straight away. She always mounts his side though, she's a funny one When Lili does it she mounts Mosley's head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Thats funny lol. Stella has always done it to Sonnys side. He usually just looks at her like, wat ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blonde_Phoenix Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) I think the take home message for the OPer is that it's not unusual behaviour, no need to call in the doggie psychologist ;) . Edited December 2, 2011 by Blonde_Phoenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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