whitka Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 As the title says whats some methods with getting her to stop pulling on the lead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 what breed, how old, when does the dog pull, what have you used so far and have you had any training at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitka Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 She's a 7 month old Border Collie and pulls when out for a walk, shes had the basic training but i've never really had a puller like this so not sure how to train her to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) start with either a flat or martingale and a pocket full of her favourite fresh treats, in tiny little pieces. Start in the front yard, just before she makes the lead taut give it a little pop and call her immediately back to you, then treat for returning. Walk around casually, every time she makes a dash to pull give her a little correction. The more she remains by your side the more treats she gets, praise when she makes it a conscious choice and treats when she looks at you in the face. Let her have the whole lead, dont use too long a lead. I find this the best method as the dog is by your side by choice and hence will remain there a lot more consistently. If you want to let her go sniff something put a command to it 'off you go' but still no pressure on the lead. When she's done peeing/sniffing again 'OK, come on' to let her know its walking time again. I find in one session dogs will be not pulling. Because her habits will already be formed you will need to introduce more distractions slowly, so when she's proofed in the front yard progress to the street etc. Edited January 7, 2012 by Nekhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitka Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Thanks Nekhbet Will try that tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) forgot to add it only works if you give her a little pop before the lead goes taut. If its taut it's too late. You want to teach the dog there is a limit to the leash and it is to respect it, so hence when you end up shortening/lengthening the leash the dog will immediately adjust it's radius to suit. edited because I have spaz fingers that cant spell lol Edited January 7, 2012 by Nekhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemesideways Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Nekhbet, out of curiosity, How would your strategy differ with a very high drive puppy to whom correction of any type on a flat collar or martingale is completely ineffective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roova Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Here's a Kikopup youtube clip on "No pulling" which might also offer something for you. Good luck Edited January 7, 2012 by Roova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 LMSW, I find that a fine check chain can get the point across, some dogs have been put on a prong at under 12 months of age, it depends what is more effective and how hard the little darling is . The dog still needs to learn manners and obedience no matter what the end goal, just a small correction before they get to the end of the lead and immediately call them to you, reward and repeat. Sometimes the drivey ones can be a little harder as they just have to no everything NOW. My older Mal bitch still, at almost 8, is one of those that has to try hard to walk loose lead as she just wants to do everything on her walk, especially gluing her nose to the ground For general loose leash walking I dont mind if drive is lowered if the dog is corrected, especially if they see things like cars, bikes etc. High drive dogs cannot be allowed to see some objects as being able to incite any prey at all (for their safety and the general publics) plus they also need to chill out. No dog needs to be on prey driven tenderhooks all the time, if you want to take them for a walk and go around public areas, unless you're going to do a specific play time/training session, there is no need to get revved when out and about. But all this is just IMHO, I dont want it to interfere with your training regime if you've been told something different. It's something that has done my lot well and hasn't killed the drive when they need to work, in fact I find it makes drive more quality over quantity and a well rested dog ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemesideways Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 LMSW, I find that a fine check chain can get the point across, some dogs have been put on a prong at under 12 months of age, it depends what is more effective and how hard the little darling is . The dog still needs to learn manners and obedience no matter what the end goal, just a small correction before they get to the end of the lead and immediately call them to you, reward and repeat. Sometimes the drivey ones can be a little harder as they just have to no everything NOW. My older Mal bitch still, at almost 8, is one of those that has to try hard to walk loose lead as she just wants to do everything on her walk, especially gluing her nose to the ground For general loose leash walking I dont mind if drive is lowered if the dog is corrected, especially if they see things like cars, bikes etc. High drive dogs cannot be allowed to see some objects as being able to incite any prey at all (for their safety and the general publics) plus they also need to chill out. No dog needs to be on prey driven tenderhooks all the time, if you want to take them for a walk and go around public areas, unless you're going to do a specific play time/training session, there is no need to get revved when out and about. But all this is just IMHO, I dont want it to interfere with your training regime if you've been told something different. It's something that has done my lot well and hasn't killed the drive when they need to work, in fact I find it makes drive more quality over quantity and a well rested dog ready to go. Thanks for the reply, very interesting. And don't worry, not stepping on anyones toes ! Its not advice for me to follow specifically, just a hypothetical to get another opinion on the difference in training when the standard just does not work! From someone who owns working dogs! (Getting a working line breed certainly changes your perspective I was a bit of a cocky shit before. Lol..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (Getting a working line breed certainly changes your perspective I was a bit of a cocky shit before. Lol..) Oh they do test you don't they! It's a matter of always being prepared and one step ahead you can't relax with them can you thing is there really is no standard. Every dog is different and the trick is to not be afraid to go well thats not working and 1) why do we think it's not (handler issue etc) and 2) what's the most effective way of fixing it so it does work and the dog learns in an effective manner. You have to get really creative sometimes but sometimes thinking outside the box and just giving an idea a shot can really help. I did it once with my bitch who had a hesitation problem, I would give a command and she would baulk. So I tied up the dog and hid just out of sight. I gave the command and another trainer heavily rewarded her for me. We fixed the baulking problem in no time despite the fact it went against what he thought would be good for the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 LMSW, I find that a fine check chain can get the point across, some dogs have been put on a prong at under 12 months of age, it depends what is more effective and how hard the little darling is . The dog still needs to learn manners and obedience no matter what the end goal, just a small correction before they get to the end of the lead and immediately call them to you, reward and repeat. Sometimes the drivey ones can be a little harder as they just have to no everything NOW. My older Mal bitch still, at almost 8, is one of those that has to try hard to walk loose lead as she just wants to do everything on her walk, especially gluing her nose to the ground For general loose leash walking I dont mind if drive is lowered if the dog is corrected, especially if they see things like cars, bikes etc. High drive dogs cannot be allowed to see some objects as being able to incite any prey at all (for their safety and the general publics) plus they also need to chill out. No dog needs to be on prey driven tenderhooks all the time, if you want to take them for a walk and go around public areas, unless you're going to do a specific play time/training session, there is no need to get revved when out and about. But all this is just IMHO, I dont want it to interfere with your training regime if you've been told something different. It's something that has done my lot well and hasn't killed the drive when they need to work, in fact I find it makes drive more quality over quantity and a well rested dog ready to go. Are you talking about using a prong collar to correct the behaviour of young dogs out of control from a lack of foundation training or using a prong as part of the foundation training regime, just interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemesideways Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (Getting a working line breed certainly changes your perspective I was a bit of a cocky shit before. Lol..) Oh they do test you don't they! It's a matter of always being prepared and one step ahead you can't relax with them can you thing is there really is no standard. Every dog is different and the trick is to not be afraid to go well thats not working and 1) why do we think it's not (handler issue etc) and 2) what's the most effective way of fixing it so it does work and the dog learns in an effective manner. You have to get really creative sometimes but sometimes thinking outside the box and just giving an idea a shot can really help. I did it once with my bitch who had a hesitation problem, I would give a command and she would baulk. So I tied up the dog and hid just out of sight. I gave the command and another trainer heavily rewarded her for me. We fixed the baulking problem in no time despite the fact it went against what he thought would be good for the dog. Yeah they certainly do. I thought I was soo prepared, and then this 8 week old, super confident "I dont need you" puppy comes trotting in, 2 hour car ride home he didn't stop howling, first time in my yard he just trots right off, doesn't look back. No amount of puppy calling would get his attention . I thought I was going to die! I tried to do it on my own for a week, no doubt making things loads worse, before caving in and calling for help! (Luckily I did, imagine the horror he would have been at almost 6 months!!)Hes going brilliant now, thanks to the help I'm getting, but every day is something new. What was the idea behind you tying her up and being out of sight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I hate to say this, but a front attached harness has worked wonders for us (is there a "hide" emoticon!). This was on the advice of our trainer - as we're also Training in Drive, using a prong/martingale/check chain would have diminished or inhibited Ziva's drive, so for now the front attach harness which seems to be working a treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemesideways Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I hate to say this, but a front attached harness has worked wonders for us (is there a "hide" emoticon!). This was on the advice of our trainer - as we're also Training in Drive, using a prong/martingale/check chain would have diminished or inhibited Ziva's drive, so for now the front attach harness which seems to be working a treat. Why do you hate to say it?? Theres nothing wrong with a front attached harness! The best trainer will use whatever tool is correct for the individual dog ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I hate to say this, but a front attached harness has worked wonders for us (is there a "hide" emoticon!). This was on the advice of our trainer - as we're also Training in Drive, using a prong/martingale/check chain would have diminished or inhibited Ziva's drive, so for now the front attach harness which seems to be working a treat. Why do you hate to say it?? Theres nothing wrong with a front attached harness! The best trainer will use whatever tool is correct for the individual dog ! Because it seems that the general consensus on DOL is that using an artificial aid to stop pulling isn't really a fix ;) hence I never attempted to use one before, but in Steve we trust :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Are you talking about using a prong collar to correct the behaviour of young dogs out of control from a lack of foundation training or using a prong as part of the foundation training regime, just interested? It comes down to what equipment helps the dog and handler achieve their goal in an efficient and fair manner. Some dogs may need it as part of their foundation training (saying that I would never put one on a young pup, I start all pups on a flat collar) Some dogs just wont calm down in order to be able to listen and learn. They spend more time high as a kite screeching, bouncing, flailing and no reinforcer can work if the dog is not focused - you also do not want to be rewarding an anxious/over excited animal otherwise you make a rod for your own back. Now enthusiasm for work is definitily something to heavily reinforce, but that is different from anxiety/excitement which is simply an unfocussed behavior. I hate to say this, but a front attached harness has worked wonders for us (is there a "hide" emoticon!). This was on the advice of our trainer - as we're also Training in Drive, using a prong/martingale/check chain would have diminished or inhibited Ziva's drive, so for now the front attach harness which seems to be working a treat. Because those corrective aids are made to diminish drive as well. If you want to train your dog in drive and keep it peaked the corrective collar will definitely kill it especially in the average dog. Some high drive nutters will work through even those but then again those are not commonly seen You use what works, if you're training in drive why don't you use a flat collar instead, it wont put pressure on the dogs body and allow more free flowing movement and no pressure on the dogs shoulder blades/muscles What was the idea behind you tying her up and being out of sight? My dog would also look at me in the face when I gave her a command. So instead of being sent out she would pause, stare, then I would have to encourage her to go. I had a feeling I may have inadvertently given her cause to wait for another signal, eg a look on my face, or soft command I didnt realise I was doing, and having me within her sight was always going to make her exhibit the baulk. Now I didnt require her to focus on me before I issued the command so to look up caused problems. When I hid it was still me giving the command but out of sight she had nowhere else to look but what she was supposed to focus on in the first place. I would issue verbal praise and encouragement as I could peek out and see what she was doing. When done I came out and rewarded her with praise and a good strong pat on the side. Fixed it quick smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I hate to say this, but a front attached harness has worked wonders for us (is there a "hide" emoticon!). This was on the advice of our trainer - as we're also Training in Drive, using a prong/martingale/check chain would have diminished or inhibited Ziva's drive, so for now the front attach harness which seems to be working a treat. Because those corrective aids are made to diminish drive as well. If you want to train your dog in drive and keep it peaked the corrective collar will definitely kill it especially in the average dog. Some high drive nutters will work through even those but then again those are not commonly seen You use what works, if you're training in drive why don't you use a flat collar instead, it wont put pressure on the dogs body and allow more free flowing movement and no pressure on the dogs shoulder blades/muscles When we do TID, she's on a flat collar, it's only when we're out on our twice daily walks that she wears the harness. So far, K9Pro hasn't led us astray and I've seen a vast improvement in her attention now we're doing TID with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 'Nekhbet' timestamp='1326092416' post='5669194']Are you talking about using a prong collar to correct the behaviour of young dogs out of control from a lack of foundation training or using a prong as part of the foundation training regime, just interested? It comes down to what equipment helps the dog and handler achieve their goal in an efficient and fair manner. Some dogs may need it as part of their foundation training (saying that I would never put one on a young pup, I start all pups on a flat collar) Some dogs just wont calm down in order to be able to listen and learn. They spend more time high as a kite screeching, bouncing, flailing and no reinforcer can work if the dog is not focused - you also do not want to be rewarding an anxious/over excited animal otherwise you make a rod for your own back. Now enthusiasm for work is definitily something to heavily reinforce, but that is different from anxiety/excitement which is simply an unfocussed behavior. I know what you mean, but isn't it more effective to take the foundation training back a few steps to teach focus than breaking out a prong collar on a young dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) know what you mean, but isn't it more effective to take the foundation training back a few steps to teach focus than breaking out a prong collar on a young dog? oh it definitely is. My comment was more in line with the hard and driven working lines occasionally Teaching a good foundation of the dog-handler relationship and basics is always required if you wish to progress with your dog - I believe very heavily in it and in fact don't believe in just putting any equipment on a dog for the sake of convenience or it's the latest fad to 'control' the dog. I do believe a lot of 'problems' stem from a lack of foundation like you say. Ultimately what is preferable is what helps the dog, particularly because some dogs are not acting like goofy pups at under 12 months of age. But again it is a very rare occasion and I threw the comment in as a generalised overview of what can be done and didnt really direct it towards your average dog Edited January 10, 2012 by Nekhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now