Puppy Health Guarantee

[chook007]

Just interested to know what kind of health guarantee [if any] other breeders offer puppy buyers.

I am having my first litter soon & wonder how to go about this. I have thought of offering 6 mths pet insurance with each pup ??

Love to hear from other breeders.

Thanks

[Squidgy]

Just a question :) are you a registered breeder???

What breed are we talking about because different breeds will need different health guarantees if you decide to go into things like genetic health etc

[espinay2]

If you are a registered breeder you can also ask to join and pose the question in the breeders part of the forum and you should get good replies there.

As mentioned, it can vary from breed to breed and condition to condition what you would 'guarantee'.

Also wording needs to be quite careful - you need to state EXACTLY what you are guaranteeing and what the guarantee is if things do not go well.

All very good saying you 'guarantee' for a particular condition, but you need to specify exactly what you will do if it gets it and how long the guarantee is for - is it for 1 year? 2 years? lifetime?

Also make sure the guarantee is something you are prepared to do and CAN do.

What specifications will you put on the guarantee - i.e. under what conditions will it be null and void?

What proof and/or severity will you require for the guarantee to come into affect - eg a specialist report, two independent vet reports, a particular result on a test etc etc

Note guarantees regarding specific conditions may be longer term than a 'general health' guarantee which involves the health of the pup when the new owner takes delivery and both types of guarantees may be included separately in an agreement.

Edited September 27, 2012 by espinay2

[minimax]

I think offering 6 months pet insurance is a bit excessive, you can get the 8 week breeder pack of pet insurance from Pet Plan, and usually that is pretty good to start people off. Unless of course you are expecting a health issue in the first 6 months, which would be my first question if you were offering me 6 months free pet insurance (but then again, I'm too suspicious - no one gives things away for free for no reason...)

[ellz]

One thing that is also important is to specify CLEARLY that the puppy MUST be seen by a vet within a certain timeframe of purchase, perhaps a couple of days. That way if anything arises down the track, it can at least be verified that the puppy was healthy and "fit for sale" at the time OF the sale and any illnesses/disorders can be addressed then and there by way of return, refund or whatever. If the purchaser doesn't take the puppy to the vet and something is wrong later on, then they cannot say that the puppy was ill at the time of purchase and as they have already violated the terms of the agreement, it is more difficult for them to prove negligence or wrongdoing on the part of the breeder.

[Steve]

Ive watched many go belly up. You cant assume anything and you cant allow the puppy buyer to assume anything.

You need to be clear about what you are guaranteeing and under what conditions it will be accepted or not accepted and for how long you will consider it.

You need to be clear about how you will ensure that the claim is bone vide and what your requirements are - second opinions, being examined by your vet etc.

You need to be clear about who will pay to have the dog returned or who will pay for the second opinion etc - second guess EVERYTHING.

IF something goes wrong the people who have been your wonderful puppy buyers can turn in a heartbeat to be the worst monsters you have ever met .They are emotional, grieving or worrying, they love the dog just as you wished they would and so they may react in a manner you didnt see coming if something goes wrong. Chuck in a bit of other people advising them on what the breeder should or should not have done to avoid the problem , a bit of animal rights propoganda and you an find yourself way out on a limb.

HD is the one that really gets to me.

We all know that HD is only about 14% purely genetics and I watch breeders constantly guaranteeing against HD - then of course when there is a fight all of the other things that may impact are in the mix , exercise, diet, living conditions,chemicals etc and the owner had no idea that any of these things would impact on their ability to get a refund etc. They dont just want a refund they also want vet bills covered and they may want it years after the pup goes home. They want to tell the world what a mongrel you are and tell the RSPCA you are breeding with defective animals etc.

Dont say you will guarantee anything for life unless you have DNA to show you wont and then be very specific about exactly what it is you are guaranteeing.

The reality is the only things you can guarantee is that you are sending home a healthy pup and that it wont get something you have definitely tested for and cleared it for. If it is sick when it gets to its new home you are it. If it gets sick soon after from something it may have had which the vet didnt pick up or it was incubating at time of delivery you are it. Even if insurance covers it you still sold something which at the time of sale was not fit for the purpose it was sold for. Chances of that happening is remote and why Pet plan and Bow Wow offer free insurance for that period.- limited risk.

You cant guarantee a dog will be a champion or that it will be a great breeding dog unless you are a little mad either in my opinion but people who buy dogs with main papers have that expectation and unless you spell it out you can end up in nastiness central.

Remember its not just about whether its fair for the puppy buyer to expect something or not its also about the stress level and the impact on your reputation.

From a puppy buers perspective they dont understand the implications and when breeders send up smoke screens it not fair to them.

If you say you will replace the pup or refund the money but then you demand they return the original dog first breeders already know what that would mean and chances are they are off the hook - after all they offered to honour the guarantee.

if someone doesnt want to keep their dog any more will you bring it home - and if so at who's cost and help find it a new home or will you buy it back and pay them money for the return and to have it bought home - even when its 10 years old ?

[Fordogs]

Great post Steve, I don't believe you left anything out :)

[Steve]

Great post Steve, I don't believe you left anything out :)

I bet I did :D

[dancinbcs]

I would add that a guarantee of any type where a refund is offered should only be up to the purchase price of the puppy and should specify that you will not cover any vet fees incurred without your written approval. The puppy may have something your vet could treat for a couple of hundred dollars or have something fatal that no amount of money will fix but the buyer may opt for a specialist centre and run up thousands in testing and expect you to pay for it.

[chook007]

Just a question :) are you a registered breeder???

What breed are we talking about because different breeds will need different health guarantees if you decide to go into things like genetic health etc

Thanks Steve for your help.

I am a reg breeder & this will be my first litter so I still have lots to learn.

Both my dogs have been health tested with excellent results so I'm not expecting any health problems, but you never know & this is why I am wondering what other breeders offer.

My breed is newfoundlands.

[espinay2]

One thing to remember is to never say never, particularly with these large breeds (though it does apply to any breed).

Your own dogs may be health tested, but how many generations of your dogs pedigree, plus all their siblings, do you also have health tests for?

We never know everything that is there lurking and there are things that can knock even the most thorough and concientious breeder for a six.

Work on reducing your risk, plan for the worst, hope for the best, and NEVER claim you 'don't have any problems in your lines'.

Good luck! :D

Edited September 28, 2012 by espinay2

[Crisovar]

The way young giant breeds are reared is so crucial if you want to end up with a sound animal at the end, despite the clearances its parents may have. Once a pup leaves your care you have no control over how it is fed, exercised or housed. I would take on board the advice of others who have experience in giant breed contracts before you go ahead.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/241789-interesting-conversation-with-rspca-inspector/

You might find that thread interesting.

You definitely want to set limits on returns.

And if you offer to take the puppy back at some pro-rata refund rate - definitely set a time limit on refunds or replacement puppies. But always take the puppy back. Sigh.

[chook007]

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/241789-interesting-conversation-with-rspca-inspector/

You might find that thread interesting.

You definitely want to set limits on returns.

And if you offer to take the puppy back at some pro-rata refund rate - definitely set a time limit on refunds or replacement puppies. But always take the puppy back. Sigh.

Thankyou everyone for your help with this. It has given me a lot of great tips to think about.

[dasha]

I don't guarantee anything with my pups.

I do my best to health screen parents for my own benefit and the benefit of the dogs.

I inform the buyers of any potential problem if required.

I do my best to screen the buyers.

I keep in contact with the buyers and if they decide they didn't/couldn't keep the dog, I would offer their money back and rehome. (which I have done) Unless of course they already had a suitable home for it. In some cases the buyer may onsell the dog later.

I breed working Border Collies.

You can't really offer a blanket guarantee on health. It would have to list specific things.

The only thing I would guarantee is that the dog will work. If not, I would rather get it back and pet home if the pup was purchased as a working prospect.

Thats just my opinion.

[dancinbcs]

I don't guarantee anything with my pups.

I do my best to health screen parents for my own benefit and the benefit of the dogs.

I inform the buyers of any potential problem if required.

I do my best to screen the buyers.

I keep in contact with the buyers and if they decide they didn't/couldn't keep the dog, I would offer their money back and rehome. (which I have done) Unless of course they already had a suitable home for it. In some cases the buyer may onsell the dog later.

I breed working Border Collies.

You can't really offer a blanket guarantee on health. It would have to list specific things.

The only thing I would guarantee is that the dog will work. If not, I would rather get it back and pet home if the pup was purchased as a working prospect.

Thats just my opinion.

With any Border Collies you should be DNA testing and giving a guarantee against CL, TNS and CEA. The only things you can give an absolute guarantee against are those that have DNA tests that make it possible.

[Steve]

I don't guarantee anything with my pups.

I do my best to health screen parents for my own benefit and the benefit of the dogs.

I inform the buyers of any potential problem if required.

I do my best to screen the buyers.

I keep in contact with the buyers and if they decide they didn't/couldn't keep the dog, I would offer their money back and rehome. (which I have done) Unless of course they already had a suitable home for it. In some cases the buyer may onsell the dog later.

I breed working Border Collies.

You can't really offer a blanket guarantee on health. It would have to list specific things.

The only thing I would guarantee is that the dog will work. If not, I would rather get it back and pet home if the pup was purchased as a working prospect.

Thats just my opinion.

If you are offering a guarantee that if they no longer want the dog that you will buy it back you had better be clear about how much you wil pay for the dog and hope you have the money and space when the time comes for the next 15 or so years.

I had one once who came to me and wanted me to buy back the dog after 18 months for $500 more than she paid for it as she hadnt desexed it [ male] and she felt that she should be compensated for the vaccinations, and care she had provided for it as it had grown. She felt its value had increased .I found her two wonderful homes for him but each only offered a much less price than she paid me - she said no and if I didnt pay the extra money the dog would be put down. Long story short my hubby told me if I did pay the extra he would divorce me and right at the death knock the grandmother came good and gave her the money including the extra and took the dog to her house so the kids could still see it and love it .

Dont assume that people understand what you are thinking - they dont and if you are not clear they can come back and say you promised them full refund at any age and that you would pay to get it home regardless of what you may be able to get when you re home it because that is what they assumed you meant .

[dasha]

I don't guarantee I will buy it back. I would offer. Depending on the dog, my situation, the reasons for them not wanting it.

I DNA my dogs for my own knowledge. It is near impossible to get a working dog sire that had had any/some DNA testing which is why I do mine. Then I know if I need to be concerned about anything.

So far I am good.

If there is a sire I like, I may very well have to do some testing before I use it but I would then some working dog people don't want to know the status of their dogs as they don't want to know.

Working dog people also don't pay much for puppies so extensive testing becomes very expensive.

I test my bitches so I know their status.

The market that your dogs go to determines the likliehood of returns, the reason for returns.

Like I said, I screen my homes as best as possible.

They have so far gone to sporting homes and people are VERY happy with them and I have orders for more so I think the return rate will be extremely low. I am prepared to wear that risk and take each issue as it comes.

[Steve]

Yes I hear you but when you say "I would offer their money back" thats open to interpretation and anyone having it said to them doesnt know about you maybe taking into account the reason they are not wanting it or your situation, how long they have had the dog etc

I am warning you that I have seen this go belly up. Better to say I will take the dog back or help you to find it a new home and then when the time comes if its fair offer a refund etc rather than say anything they can assume will lock you into it all.

At the end of the day you wouldnt have to do what they think you promised anyway but puppy buyers get ticked off and say some pretty bad stuff about breeders, cause some stress when they think their breeder is going back on what they thik they guaranteed.

[Poodle wrangler]

I'm about to get a puppy and am reading this thread with interest...

I think if you are paying $1500-2000 for a puppy, buyer expectations are high.

I don't need convincing about buying a quality puppy vs. vet bills, just saying people (inc. me) see that purchase price as a lot of money. e.g. litter = 7 X $2000= $14,000.

Doesn't make sense, but I know someone who's had a lot of allergy/ skin issues with their standard poodle.

They bought their dog "discounted" from a neighbour who is a registered breeder (one of the bad ones).

Because the "saved" a hundreds on buying a puppy, they accepted all the problems as a sort-of added risk.

They'd have spent much more than they "saved" on buying puppy at the vets, of course.

Of course good breeders deserve to make money for what they do.

I see the cost of puppy as buying pedigree, minimising risk of inherited problems, good socialisation of puppy, ongoing support, and helping better the breed by supporting good breeders.