New Here - Investigating Getting Dogs For Companionship And Advice Wan

[Ruin Maniac]

Hello everyone.

Oddly enough, I registered here some time ago when I was linked by a close friend to a thread about a poodle (named Leo, I believe?) who had experienced serious trauma and abuse at the hands of puppy farmers. In the end, I was so upset by the situation that I struggled to keep up. But I am glad I registered, as I come here now with a positive attitude and seeking advice.

I have been living in Melbourne now for some time, and have recently moved from university accommodation into a large, dog friendly home (large yard, low traffic, large recreational areas nearby. I have been granted permission to keep small dogs. I know that dogs are a lifelong commitment, and are not to be taken into a home on a whimsy. I have been making financial preparations so as to cover the early expenses (the dog itself, vaccinations, registration, micro-chipping, desexing, puppy classes, general supplies) and also savings for the long term for vet appointments, grooming and any emergencies.

I live an active lifestyle with a lot of walking, jogging and travelling around Victoria and interstate. I would love a dog who would enjoy an active lifestyle, but as I'm not experienced with large, headstrong breeds and am physically small, I'm looking at dogs in the smaller size range. I'm not looking to show or breed a dog, just looking for a friend.

I recently went to a pet supplies warehouse (not a pet shop, since I refuse to support stores and especially chain stores that sell live animals) and spoke to a lovely lady who is a groomer, dog owner and passionate about canine behaviour. I explained my situation and, as she understood my concerns about backyard breeders and pet stores, recommended I speak to the breeders here at Dogz Online. She has purchased two of her (gorgeous) dogs from breeders listed here, and assured me that you are all extremely knowledgeable, honest and reliable. Again, I was glad I had already registered.

I mentioned that I was looking at a few breeds in particular, and possibly a pair (though not for breeding purposes - definitely no). The reason I thought a pair may be good is that, although someone is almost always home, I don't want to leave a dog for any length of time without company. A pair could help to alleviate boredom, anxiety and loneliness.

The lady agreed with my reasoning, but suggested either getting one dog before the other so as to dedicate my efforts into training and socializing it, or if they arrive at the same time to train them both independently of each other to avoid confusion. So my first question is, what do you, as experienced owners and breeders, think is best? Is a pair a good idea? Should one be settled in and trained before the other arrived? Would it be better to introduce them both at the same time and train them separately? Does this depend on the breed/personality of the individual dogs?

When I described the breeds I'm interested in, she made some suggestions. I've been looking at West Highland Whites, but she told me they can be surprisingly stubborn if you are not careful, and suggested that a Scottish Terrier may be a better choice to start with. I like both breeds, but I'd loved to hear any advice and opinions you may have for someone who would be new to them.

Kerry Blue Terriers are beautiful dogs, but I've heard they are incredibly intelligent and energetic and can become bored easily. I've also read about male-to-male dog aggression doing online research. Would this dog breed be a bad choice for someone with relatively limited experience?

I'm also interested in Maltese and Tibetan Terriers, Poodles (miniatures and toys), Low-Chens and Miniature Schnauzers. Would anyone be able to offer reliable sources of information about these breeds, or be able to comment from experience?

I am not in any way afraid to dedicate abundant time and effort into dogs. They need to be a priority, as pets are family members and not a secondary-thought. I am willing to put in the effort of learning as much as I can and putting that into practise. I do not want to become a number among those who abandon dogs because they couldn't give them the care they need. I want to be serious.

Any information you have about selecting the right breed, breeder and puppy would be fantastic. Any advice as to their care, community resources and anything else I should consider before taking on this new responsibility would be fantastic. Any questions you may have for me that are relevant to the wellbeing of my potential future dogs I will answer honestly.

This is a big challenge and anything you have to say will be respected and appreciated.

Please ask if you want me to elaborate on any specifics and I will. I'm just trying to do as much as I can to prepare and be certain that I myself am prepared.

EDIT: Oh, and I also wanted to ask you whether or not pet insurance (accident and medical cover) is worth investigating? Would it benefit my dog? Thanks :)

Edited October 2, 2012 by Ruin Maniac

[MalteseLuna]

Hello everyone.

Oddly enough, I registered here some time ago when I was linked by a close friend to a thread about a poodle (named Leo, I believe?) who had experienced serious trauma and abuse at the hands of puppy farmers. In the end, I was so upset by the situation that I struggled to keep up. But I am glad I registered, as I come here now with a positive attitude and seeking advice.

I have been living in Melbourne now for some time, and have recently moved from university accommodation into a large, dog friendly home (large yard, low traffic, large recreational areas nearby. I have been granted permission to keep small dogs. I know that dogs are a lifelong commitment, and are not to be taken into a home on a whimsy. I have been making financial preparations so as to cover the early expenses (the dog itself, vaccinations, registration, micro-chipping, desexing, puppy classes, general supplies) and also savings for the long term for vet appointments, grooming and any emergencies.

I live an active lifestyle with a lot of walking, jogging and travelling around Victoria and interstate. I would love a dog who would enjoy an active lifestyle, but as I'm not experienced with large, headstrong breeds and am physically small, I'm looking at dogs in the smaller size range. I'm not looking to show or breed a dog, just looking for a friend.

I recently went to a pet supplies warehouse (not a pet shop, since I refuse to support stores and especially chain stores that sell live animals) and spoke to a lovely lady who is a groomer, dog owner and passionate about canine behaviour. I explained my situation and, as she understood my concerns about backyard breeders and pet stores, recommended I speak to the breeders here at Dogz Online. She has purchased two of her (gorgeous) dogs from breeders listed here, and assured me that you are all extremely knowledgeable, honest and reliable. Again, I was glad I had already registered.

I mentioned that I was looking at a few breeds in particular, and possibly a pair (though not for breeding purposes - definitely no). The reason I thought a pair may be good is that, although someone is almost always home, I don't want to leave a dog for any length of time without company. A pair could help to alleviate boredom, anxiety and loneliness.

The lady agreed with my reasoning, but suggested either getting one dog before the other so as to dedicate my efforts into training and socializing it, or if they arrive at the same time to train them both independently of each other to avoid confusion. So my first question is, what do you, as experienced owners and breeders, think is best? Is a pair a good idea? Should one be settled in and trained before the other arrived? Would it be better to introduce them both at the same time and train them separately? Does this depend on the breed/personality of the individual dogs?

When I described the breeds I'm interested in, she made some suggestions. I've been looking at West Highland Whites, but she told me they can be surprisingly stubborn if you are not careful, and suggested that a Scottish Terrier may be a better choice to start with. I like both breeds, but I'd loved to hear any advice and opinions you may have for someone who would be new to them.

Kerry Blue Terriers are beautiful dogs, but I've heard they are incredibly intelligent and energetic and can become bored easily. I've also read about male-to-male dog aggression doing online research. Would this dog breed be a bad choice for someone with relatively limited experience?

I'm also interested in Maltese and Tibetan Terriers, Poodles (miniatures and toys), Low-Chens and Miniature Schnauzers. Would anyone be able to offer reliable sources of information about these breeds, or be able to comment from experience?

I am not in any way afraid to dedicate abundant time and effort into dogs. They need to be a priority, as pets are family members and not a secondary-thought. I am willing to put in the effort of learning as much as I can and putting that into practise. I do not want to become a number among those who abandon dogs because they couldn't give them the care they need. I want to be serious.

Any information you have about selecting the right breed, breeder and puppy would be fantastic. Any advice as to their care, community resources and anything else I should consider before taking on this new responsibility would be fantastic. Any questions you may have for me that are relevant to the wellbeing of my potential future dogs I will answer honestly.

This is a big challenge and anything you have to say will be respected and appreciated.

Please ask if you want me to elaborate on any specifics and I will. I'm just trying to do as much as I can to prepare and be certain that I myself am prepared.

EDIT: Oh, and I also wanted to ask you whether or not pet insurance (accident and medical cover) is worth investigating? Would it benefit my dog? Thanks :)

Personally I wouldn't recommend a Maltese as a breed suitable for a very active lifestyle (i.e. jogging, hiking). Just a note they aren't terriers :) They are a very small breed i.e. mine is 2.5 kg. That said they are quite willing to go for daily walks and possibly light jogging (when older). They have lovely temperaments but aren't as high energy as many of the other breeds you mention.

A Mini poodle on the other hand would likely fit in very well with an active lifestyle, they are very intelligent and trainable (Mini's do very will in agility dog sports).

The best way to select a breed is to meet individuals of that breed - at shows, breeders, parks etc. Get to know the personality and traits of each breed your interested in. Terriers have a distinct personality compared to the other dogs you've mentioned.

I wouldn't get a pair, not as puppies. It sounds good in principle but it will make training harder (particularly for a first time dog owner). If you get two puppies they will likely bond very closely to each other, making it difficult to separate them and can make bonding with the humans harder. I would get a puppy now and then get a second dog a few years down the track. When I got my dog she was alone for most of the day as I was at work, but she had toys and slept most of the day. Boredom isn't as much of an issue if your stimulating their mind whilst your home (or giving them interactive toys when your away). Really when nobody is home the dog will likely sleep (that's what mine does :p) and if your walking them, spending time with them and playing with them when your home there shouldn't be an issue with anxiety/loneliness/boredom.

Alot of the breeds you mention have high grooming requirements, are you willing to get the dog groomed every 6-8 weeks (in the case of the poodle/Maltese etc) or learn yourself? Often daily brushing is also required. At $60-80 each groom this is an additional expense that should be noted.

[BJean]

How exciting, your first dog :)

I would only get one dog at first - general rule is if you do not have time for one puppy - and you are a beginner - you definitely wont have time for two puppies. Not matter what breed you get, it will be a learning curve for you, and it is best to learn your way with one puppy. Maybe later when your first dog is mature and you have confidence and experience to manage the challenges that can arise when owning multiple dogs.

I dont know much about the little breeds, maybe an active medium size breed would suit your lifestyle ... a smooth collie? They are active and very placid but are in the smaller size range. Not as small as a westie, but not too big either.

Edited October 2, 2012 by lilli

[Rebanne]

I too would suggest one dog to start with. Also you have picked a lot of heavily coated breeds that are a lot of work to maintain especially if you are out and about tramping around the countryside.

[Ruin Maniac]

My goodness, thank you both so much for your helpful replies. :)

I've had dogs in my childhood but this will be my first experience being solely responsible from day one.

I appreciate your advice regarding getting a pair, if it will make it more difficult to train them then I'm not giving them the best chance and that wouldn't be fair. The dog will have access to the yard and bottom floor of the house while any of us are absent, I'll be sure to research and ask about suitable toys. :)

Thank you, MalteseLuna, and I agree; it sounds like a maltese may not be the best option for my current lifestyle. I definitely don't want to put a dog at risk of exhaustion or harm if I don't know their limits.

What kind of events would be appropriate to meet dogs of specific breeds and ask questions? I certainly don't want to interrupt a professional when they are busy. My friend who shows border collies has demonstrated that it's definitely not an effortless or easy thing to do! Are there times in these situations where it would be appropriate to interact with the dogs and their owners?

I know there's a popular walking park nearby that's favoured by dog owners, so I may try and include that in my jogs. Otherwise, is it rude to enquire as to visiting a breeder's property just to see if the breed is right for me?

I am definitely willing to brush dogs daily if necessary and absolutely to visit a groomer frequently (and especially for summer in Victoria). I have between 12-19 contact hours of class a week and that's spread out fairly well, and I work evenings on weekends. Over the summer though, I have no classes and am hoping to have plenty of time to help a puppy adjust.

lilli, I'm certainly open to investigating other breeds, since I definitely don't want to get a dog I'm not compatible with. I'll look the smooth collie up :)

My major concerns with size are related to my own relative body size (I was once walked by a friend's young german shepherd, lol), and being sure I am giving them the right level of exercise (my jogs are about 30-60 minutes with up to 1-2 hours of walking each day).

I'll also do some more research into miniature poodles. There appear to be quite a few breeders registered, which ought to mean there'll be some really useful information out there.

[Ruin Maniac]

Thanks Rebanne :)

I agree with starting with one dog. I will definitely take into consideration coat type and the kind of activity I'm doing. I do occasionally go into very regional areas which could definitely lead to some muddy/grassy paws, but mostly I visit urban areas (Bendigo, Ballarat) and friends and relatives in their houses.

Would it be worth keeping a short coat during the summer months for the purposes of keeping the dog cool, and also because summer is generally when I go to the bushland?

[megan_]

Mini schnauzers are generally active, smart small dogs that would LOVE the lifestyle you describe (I assume he/she would come with you when you travel)? Mine don't like the heat of the day though, so in summer you'd need to walk/jog early in the morning or late at night.

I have an MS and an MS cross, they go agility and some obedience and love getting out-and-about.

They do require brushing and clipping. I drop mine in at the groomers every six weeks for a good clip.

[Rebanne]

Personally I think you are loking at too small a dog for what you want, up to 60 minutes jogging plus 2 hrs walking a day.

As for the friends young GSD, a properly trained dog will not walk you, even a little dog can trip you up if not trained.

Many people will say not to clip off a long coated or double coated dog as the coat can grow back incorrectly making maintenance harder. eta this does not refer to breeds tradionally clipped but breeds like the Tibetan Terrier

Ask your Border Collie friend if you can tag along with them to some dog shows, wander around and check out all the breeds, yes the coated ones you do have to pick your timing but really most people should be fine after they have been in and judged. Your friend should be able to help you out there if she has a catalogue. Breeds are judged in their various groups in alaphabetical order.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Rebanne

[Ruin Maniac]

Thank you too for your reply, Megan! Really glad I took the groomer's advice and asked here :)

Definitely the dog will be travelling with me. I'm hoping to get them used to cars and trains from an early age, and they may fly in future (and perhaps very young if I choose a breeder from another state).

I do love schnauzers and many terriers with similar builds. There's something very elegant about them, but I've never interacted with them in person before. Jogging in the early morning though would be fine, I do just that in summer. :)

My research tells me that they need to be kept entertained due to their hunting instincts. What kind of environment would be best for them on their own (indoor or outdoor) and what kind of things could I do to keep them entertained if the house is empty for an hour or two? Are they the kinds of terriers that are persistent with digging and exploring? The backyard has a 6 ft high fence with concrete beneath, but only to a certain point. Should I be mindful of that?

[megan_]

Mine stay at home while I work (full-time). They have some toys and I have a dog door so they are indoor/outdoor. I have a dog walker a few times a week during the day. I walk them before work and we do training after work. On the weekends we train on Saturday and Sunday and go for more interesting walks. That is it. Your dog will be fine if it is left alone for a few hours a day with nothing to do - it will sleep!

I believe in giving dogs plenty of exercise and training, but also giving them time with nothing to do so they learn to settle, rather than relying on you to constantly entertain them. Dogs need to learn to be self-sufficient when it comes to entertainment too. Mine get drive satisfaction (ie use their hunting instincts) through tugging, which I use as a reward for agility. One also loves chasing bubbles in the garden.

Mine aren't destructive - although one is an avid knickers thief - and have dug one or two teeny little holes.

Whatever breed you get, they won't be able to cope with that much exercise for at least a year (more if they're larger) due to the impact on growing joints.

[minimax]

Maybe think of a rescue dog, if you're wanting to get out and about with it immediatly?

[Podengo]

It's already been mentioned, but yeah two puppies at once is absolutely not a good idea. I have personally never seen it work out, even with some experienced owners, and I see a lot of inexperienced families in my obedience classes with two puppies that have a lot of difficulty with the two of them.

Going along to dog shows can be a great way to meet lots of different breeds, not just conformation shows but agility shows and even obedience shows can be good too. Most people are more than happy to chat about their dogs, as long as they aren't just about to go into the ring! :)

All of the breeds you listed can require a fair bit of grooming work, particularly to keep them looking nice! Are you specifically looking for a coated breed, or are you open to smooth coated breeds too?

I think mini poodles are great, very active, easy to train, quick learners, very clever (sometimes too clever for their own good!). Terriers are awesome too, they are very clever but some can be a bit harder to work with if you don't know what you're doing. I wouldn't recommend a Kerry blue for a first time dog owner.

How small are you looking for? Less than 20kg? 15kg? 10kg?

Do you like cocker spaniels? They aren't too big, and are certainly up for as much exercise as you can give them!

[Ruin Maniac]

I appreciate that advice, Rebanne. I do not want to exhaust a dog. Would a medium size dog be more appropriate (understanding that it will depend on the breed)? I'd be more comfortable with something under 40 kilos as I myself am only 45. Preferably in the 15-30 range. I'm not afraid of larger dogs (borzois and airedales are two I especially love), but I would worry if I had to physically move them in an urgent situation (if there's an accident or risk of one occurring) or for whatever reason they are spooked while walking. :)

Thanks for clearing up the clipping, too. I have heard that some people don't approve of it from groomers but I haven't known why until now. I know a lot of pet owners who get a full clip frequently throughout the year, so it's good to get a professional's opinion. :)

I would love to tag along to my friend's shows, but she lives in another state. I can get onto her about show setups though, and it's probable that she knows other people who show here. I'll get in touch with her today.

Looking at Schnauzers and Kerry Blues, I am also looking at Irish, Welsh and Soft Coated Wheatens. Is this still too small a dog? Would any of those be too much to handle?

[Ruin Maniac]

Minimax - I actually investigated rescue dogs first, but sadly I'm not 25 (which is an age limitation a fair few rescues have) and having spoken to some other dog owners and the groomer I've mentioned previously, I understand that sometimes rescue dogs can have serious issues as the result of separation trauma, lack of training or abuse. There's also the uncertainty in some cases of their lineage, past experiences and medical history. I felt like that could be a serious problem, and while I've seen some lovely dogs in rescue listings, I decided that it's probably not the best option for me at this point in my life and experience (and I do actually feel awful in admitting this).

Although I'm okay with taking a mature dog whose background and history is known, if someone is no longer capable of caring for them. It doesn't have to be 10 weeks old, since I'm buying a dog and a dog is what all puppies become :)

I'm planning to stay within the city if I do have a young dog (no huge legs of travel) and I'm okay to exercise without it until it's capable of keeping up, but I'd love a dog who, over their rough lifespan of 15 years, would enjoy the exercise and travel :)

[Pattycake]

Hi and

As has already been sugested I would stick with one pup at a time.

I also think you would be better off with a medium size dog. Have you thought about a spaniel, someone has already mentioned a Cocker Spaniel.... we have an English Springer Spaniel, she is from working/field lines they are smaller and less hair than a show ESS. They are very busy little dogs our girl would run all day if she was allowed ( and if I could jog lol) she is also happy to laze around the yard when we are not with her. She weighs about 16kgs, she can pull on the lead a bit when she gets hold of a scent as they do like to follow their noses, maybe you would like to get into dog sports later on as you sound like you're very active.

There are also Welsh Springer Spaniels and Brittany Spaniels.

Just be aware also not to excersise a pup so much while it is still growing, you can do a lot of damage to their joints ect, it would be over a year before you could jog with any puppy usually just short walks till they finish growing. Once you decide you can go into the puppy section for lots of great advice and pictures are a must.

Good luck in deciding

[Ruin Maniac]

Megan - Some training advice I've been reading has a lot of recommendations regarding teaching a dog to settle, in situations such as arriving home or getting into a car and just in general. Basically, it suggests making sure your dog feels safe and relaxed in their home, and avoiding making a big fuss over those every day scenarios and rewarding quiet, relaxed behaviour. I have also read that enthusiasm, positive reinforcement and making training a fun experience is the best way to go. Would that be accurate?

"Mine aren't destructive - although one is an avid knickers thief - and have dug one or two teeny little holes."

I am prepared for these things to happen, because a dog will eventually destroy something (especially puppies). That doesn't bother me so much as long as I am aware of and can discourage more negative behaviours.

Thank you also for the advice regarding joint development and exercise, that's very important and I will be sure to avoid risking damage :)

[minimax]

Minimax - I actually investigated rescue dogs first, but sadly I'm not 25 (which is an age limitation a fair few rescues have) and having spoken to some other dog owners and the groomer I've mentioned previously, I understand that sometimes rescue dogs can have serious issues as the result of separation trauma, lack of training or abuse. There's also the uncertainty in some cases of their lineage, past experiences and medical history. I felt like that could be a serious problem, and while I've seen some lovely dogs in rescue listings, I decided that it's probably not the best option for me at this point in my life and experience (and I do actually feel awful in admitting this).

Although I'm okay with taking a mature dog whose background and history is known, if someone is no longer capable of caring for them. It doesn't have to be 10 weeks old, since I'm buying a dog and a dog is what all puppies become :)

I'm planning to stay within the city if I do have a young dog (no huge legs of travel) and I'm okay to exercise without it until it's capable of keeping up, but I'd love a dog who, over their rough lifespan of 15 years, would enjoy the exercise and travel :)

Seriously? Rescues actually have age limitations That's insane, especially as I wouldn't trust a large number of under 25's I know to own a dog due to lack of responsiblity (I make myself sound so old, yet I'm not much older than 25 myself lol)

As for isses, buying a puppy you have no idea what it will grow up to be, or what behavourioual/training/medical issues it may end up with. At least with a rescue you know what you're getting. And not all rescue dogs have issues.

But I understand wanting a puppy and not a rescue dog, as I have two pug puppies myself. They aren't related, both are from different breeders, and I got them at different times. The first one was around 9 or 10 months old when the second one (who was around 4 months old) came home and I had always planned to get two, it just depended on when the breeder of puppy #2 had the litter as to when he came along!

As puppy #1 was already toilet trained when puppy #2 came, she sort of showed him the ropes in that department. She showed him how a lot of things were done (good and bad ) and they both get one-on-one time with me, as well as together time with me. It's double trouble, but also double rewarding.

Edited October 3, 2012 by minimax

[Ruin Maniac]

Minimax - to clarify just in case, I am younger than 25 and that's the minimum age limitation. I definitely agree that many people under the age of 25 do not understand how to care for pets, or not financially capable of doing so. I feel that I am in a different situation because I am financially secure and do want to take every measure I can in ensuring my dog's wellbeing and being certain I am capable of meeting the needs they have, which is why I'm posting here and taking into account everyone's opinions and advice. I'm very passionate about dogs and I consider the responsibility of caring for one to be quite similar (especially in your duty to them) to caring for a child. Sadly though, I have had discussions with people my age and older who feel very differently. People who genuinely love their pets, but don't really understand how to care for them properly. I don't want to become one of those people.

A puppy from a registered breeder with parents whose medical (and genetic, if possible) history is known and who has seen other litters would make me feel more comfortable, but I do agree with you, dogs are unique individuals and things can happen in a dog's early life that may result in the issues described. I am basing my decision on experiences that have been recounted to me by others with rescue dogs, but understand they may be biased and if you know of a reliable shelter that might consider me I'd love to know more. A rescue dog was my first preference, but again, I'm seeking reliable guidance so I do what's right. :)

Your dogs sound absolutely adorable, you must love them. I have heard that an older, trained dog can help a new puppy to adjust, but I definitely won't take more than I think I can handle at any one time. One dog is perfect as long as I can keep them happy and prevent them from being lonely, which would be awful and is why I feel it's important that my dog accompanies me when I travel. A partner in adventure, I guess :)

[Purdie]

If you like going in the bush i would recommend a breed without a very heavy coat. Go a short to medium coat that can be clipped or stripped for summer and kept a bit longer in a Melbourne winter. A moderately active breed for a first time owner,that can also relax with you indoors when you are studying.A medium size would be good.

If you like the scruffy Terriers -like i do- have a look at the Irish Terrier.What ever breed you decide on spend time with them and research the breed and talk to owners .

Here is a dog breed quiz that may be helpful . http://www.k9country...erl/dogBreed.pl

[Rebanne]

Thanks for clearing up the clipping, too. I have heard that some people don't approve of it from groomers but I haven't known why until now. I know a lot of pet owners who get a full clip frequently throughout the year, so it's good to get a professional's opinion. :)

Oh I am not a professional, I have wash and wear dogs :laugh: I know my limitations and dog grooming is one of them!

What does your friend say about Border Collies maybe being suitable? Or an Aussie Shepherd? Medium size dogs with coat who are usually biddable and more willing to please their owner as a working dog rather then a terrier who is usually bred to be more independant? And once grown would love the workload you have in mind.

eta I read some one recommended one of the spaniels, they are worth looking into as well.

I have only ever owned German Shepherds and Greyhounds with one pound puppy thrown into the mix so can't really recommend a particular breed.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Rebanne