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You seemed to have become frustrated very easily and this doesn't bode well for somebody wanting to run a rescue org.

You are not obliged to answer anyone's questions here but keep in mind that transparency is one of the ways that ethical rescue is judged.

The reason that so many people have put pressure on you here is because you want to start an organisation and that is something that has an effect on the whole rescue landscape in Australia.

There is nothing wrong with people rehoming dogs privately in the manner that you intend to do it. It's what dog breeders do and it's what some greyhound people do. Advertising individual good quality dogs for adoption in online classifieds or newspapers. If people want a dog and they don't want to get it from a rescue they can buy a pet this way, and you can put as many terms and conditions on the sale as you want.

However if you set up an organisation instead of doing your own private thing, you will be up for intense scrutiny because rescue organisations attract public interest and any mistakes you make will harm the reputation of all greyhound rescue. Something that is not nearly as popular in Australia as it is in the US or UK. Muzzle laws are new and if there are any negative greyhound incidents that make news then these new laws might be declared a failure and repealed. There is so much at stake here.

If you set up an organisation and attract foster carers then there is a massive risk that they will be burned just like you were or worse because you do not understand the pressures of greyhound rescue, the problems the dogs are likely to have, or the expectations of the community.

Work alone if you cannot deal with the type of questioning you get here and you will be left alone as long as you cause no problems. But if you set up an organisation pretending to be the expert on greyhound rescue when clearly you are not, and compete with good rescue for scant resources , then don't expect everyone to be happy about that.

It wasnt about not dealing with the questions it was about people asking the same questions over and over and the drove of people (with other rescues minus the breeder) that came charging in worried about what seems to be money. I dont plan on running huge fund raisers, I dont plan on trying to gobble up a ton of foster homes, Like I said earlier these larger organizations wont even notice us.

I didnt say we were starting this massive organization I said I wanted to start a rescue with my husband.

So lets see what I had wanted to do:

Start a small rescue with my husband the dogs being here unless we stumble upon someone who wants to foster

The money that goes into the rescue will be our own

The stuff the dogs need we will buy unless someone wants to send us toys or presents for the dogs.

We will be within all the laws and a copy of the laws will be sent home with anyone who takes a dog

The dogs will be sent out with a info packet on lots of things to do with greyhounds

The dogs will be de sexed, vaccinate, microchipped, vet checked, tested with cats, dogs and kids, with a flea treatment.

There is a bit of what we had planned to do.

Have a good day you can continue to discuss this but I think I will steer clear of the thread hopefully now you can sleep at night :thumbsup:

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There's also the fact that many of the people offering advice in this thread have seen many people just like yourself jump into rescue and get in way over their heads with it. The advice is sound, tried, and tested to be a very effective method of dipping one's toe into the venture and getting a feel for it properly, before diving into unknown waters.

Good intentions are great, some research is also great - but flipping the bird to people who DON'T want to see you fail in your endeavour isn't the best way to go about things, is it?

No-one here has called your experience insufficient to run a successful rescue - but some questioning into your hands-on experience with ex-racing Greyhounds in Australia is to be expected when you start picking apart the information/training guides on another rescue's website and spouting off that they are somehow being "inhumane"...

Just like in any other aspect of your interactions with others in this big bad world, you are going to have people here that won't phrase things in nice airy fairy language so that you can feed off the warm fuzzies and pats on the back for doing something that just about everyone here is also doing - read, rescuing dogs of all descriptions. The Greyound people, funnily enough, do know their shit in this case, and your combatative tone certainly isn't winning you any friends (or great Greyhound contacts for that matter) in this debate.

What has me worried right now is how you have gotten all "frustrated" and narked off at some basic questioning and advice here... it starts to make people wonder how you are going to fare interacting with a disgruntled or pushy adopter...

My personal opinion is that you have the right intentions, possibly enough experience with dogs to learn about the needs and rehoming of Greys, and obviously the drive to create something good... but your attitude towards anyone detracting from your way of thinking leaves a lot to be desired.

Welcome to the wonderful world of the DOL Rescue forums... and don't forget to don your Flamesuit before entering... lol!

T.

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Have you considered volunteering at a few greyhound kennels to get a bit more hands on experience with Greys? I have worked with dogs in the US and here in Aus. I work mainly with working breeds or their crosses and late last year I was considering getting a sighthound. I had always wanted a greyhound and I toyed with the idea for a while and I did some research and went and met some greys, whippets, Iggies and a few wolfhounds and found out that they weren't for me at all. They are different from any other breed of dog and their character just wouldn't fit my personality and I just admire them from afar now. I'm not saying that you would not be suitable at all, far from it. I'm just saying that perhaps getting to know the dogs, their environment, how they are trained for at least a few months will help you understand them even more and you will be even more prepared than you currently are to take on quite an admirable cause.

Goodluck and I wish you the best with whatever happens :)

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You seemed to have become frustrated very easily and this doesn't bode well for somebody wanting to run a rescue org.

Oh, come off it.

Greylvr has actually shown a lot of restraint in this thread. There are a lot of people who would not have bitten their tongue so much and that doesn't mean those people aren't fit to run a rescue.

Greylvr has said she doesn't want to continue. You don't have to like it but the constant baiting is just ridiculous.

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Seriously Plan B - I DON'T want her to fail in her venture... and that's why I've been advocating working with one of the established groups doing Greyhound rescue before trying to "reinvent the wheel" as someone so eloquently put it.

There has been a hell of a lot of hard slog put into promoting Greyhounds as pets by the established and industry respected groups - the notion that an ex-racing Grey would make a great family pet isn't all that bad nowadays - which has made it possible for people like Greylvr to think about starting their own Greyhound rescue. But the very real possibility is that if she gets it wrong ever, it can set back rescue for ALL Greys.

T.

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You seemed to have become frustrated very easily and this doesn't bode well for somebody wanting to run a rescue org.

Oh, come off it.

Greylvr has actually shown a lot of restraint in this thread. There are a lot of people who would not have bitten their tongue so much and that doesn't mean those people aren't fit to run a rescue.

Greylvr has said she doesn't want to continue. You don't have to like it but the constant baiting is just ridiculous.

I agree that Greylvr has taken everything quite well.

Thanks :thumbsup:

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You seemed to have become frustrated very easily and this doesn't bode well for somebody wanting to run a rescue org.

Oh, come off it.

Greylvr has actually shown a lot of restraint in this thread. There are a lot of people who would not have bitten their tongue so much and that doesn't mean those people aren't fit to run a rescue.

Greylvr has said she doesn't want to continue. You don't have to like it but the constant baiting is just ridiculous.

She didn't say that she didn't want to continue only that she had finished with the thread. Although that was untrue.

The questions raised here have been pretty tame compared to the questions asked of people working within the industry to rehome greyhounds. The questions I was asked by government while I was lobbying for muzzle laws to be changed were even tougher.

Some people think it's ridiculous that Pound Rounds are questioned about their practices, but they would be the people with no idea about the potential for things to go wrong. Do you have anything to say on topic or did you join in just to have a go at me?

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She didn't say that she didn't want to continue only that she had finished with the thread. Although that was untrue.

The questions raised here have been pretty tame compared to the questions asked of people working within the industry to rehome greyhounds. The questions I was asked by government while I was lobbying for muzzle laws to be changed were even tougher.

Some people think it's ridiculous that Pound Rounds are questioned about their practices, but they would be the people with no idea about the potential for things to go wrong. Do you have anything to say on topic or did you join in just to have a go at me?

No need to victimise yourself.

Also no need to compare somebody who hasn't even gotten a rescue up and running yet to a group who has continuously hurt a lot of people and dogs.

Straws. You're grasping. Just let it go already.

Edited by Plan B
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I'm not talking about myself plan B I am talking about greyhound rescue.

Why don't you have anything to add to the topic? Or are you just here to make nasty comments to ridicule people who have valid concerns? You don't seem to have anything much to say that is relevant.

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It wasnt about not dealing with the questions it was about people asking the same questions over and over and the drove of people (with other rescues minus the breeder) that came charging in worried about what seems to be money. I dont plan on running huge fund raisers, I dont plan on trying to gobble up a ton of foster homes, Like I said earlier these larger organizations wont even notice us.

I didnt say we were starting this massive organization I said I wanted to start a rescue with my husband.

So lets see what I had wanted to do:

Start a small rescue with my husband the dogs being here unless we stumble upon someone who wants to foster

The money that goes into the rescue will be our own

The stuff the dogs need we will buy unless someone wants to send us toys or presents for the dogs.

We will be within all the laws and a copy of the laws will be sent home with anyone who takes a dog

The dogs will be sent out with a info packet on lots of things to do with greyhounds

The dogs will be de sexed, vaccinate, microchipped, vet checked, tested with cats, dogs and kids, with a flea treatment.

There is a bit of what we had planned to do.

All of this sounds great. One or two dogs at a time, you're responsible for them totally, all good. But weren't you also looking into charity status and having other foster carers helping you? That's when it all gets tricky.

I understand wanting to do your own thing - I've been frustrated as a foster carer myself when I knew the dog better than the organisation - but you're either a private rescue, or you're part of the Greyhound rescue landscape as a whole and need to work out where you fit with it.

Good luck, sadly there's nothing easy in rescue except finding the dogs.

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I'm not talking about myself plan B I am talking about greyhound rescue.

Why don't you have anything to add to the topic? Or are you just here to make nasty comments to ridicule people who have valid concerns? You don't seem to have anything much to say that is relevant.

I'd love to see where those 'nasty comments' are.

This thread reads like a public mauling. Whether that was the intent or not, it's how it reads. It's uncalled for.

I've shown support for Greylvr and offered advice - in a way that doesn't drag her over hot coals. It's not my fault you don't see that as relevant, I just don't see the need to go over things that have been covered here. Over, and over, and over again.

And I think it'd be nice if at least a few people on DOL were welcoming and supporting of newcomers, just to show that there is a place for them here.

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It wasnt about not dealing with the questions it was about people asking the same questions over and over and the drove of people (with other rescues minus the breeder) that came charging in worried about what seems to be money. I dont plan on running huge fund raisers, I dont plan on trying to gobble up a ton of foster homes, Like I said earlier these larger organizations wont even notice us.

I didnt say we were starting this massive organization I said I wanted to start a rescue with my husband.

So lets see what I had wanted to do:

Start a small rescue with my husband the dogs being here unless we stumble upon someone who wants to foster

The money that goes into the rescue will be our own

The stuff the dogs need we will buy unless someone wants to send us toys or presents for the dogs.

We will be within all the laws and a copy of the laws will be sent home with anyone who takes a dog

The dogs will be sent out with a info packet on lots of things to do with greyhounds

The dogs will be de sexed, vaccinate, microchipped, vet checked, tested with cats, dogs and kids, with a flea treatment.

There is a bit of what we had planned to do.

All of this sounds great. One or two dogs at a time, you're responsible for them totally, all good. But weren't you also looking into charity status and having other foster carers helping you? That's when it all gets tricky.

I understand wanting to do your own thing - I've been frustrated as a foster carer myself when I knew the dog better than the organisation - but you're either a private rescue, or you're part of the Greyhound rescue landscape as a whole and need to work out where you fit with it.

Good luck, sadly there's nothing easy in rescue except finding the dogs.

I did ask about the different statuses just to see if anyone had some really good advice on why we should go as a charity but really we wouldnt have bene doing large scale rescue we planned to do 1 or 2 dogs at a time have them vetted, screen homes and place them. Some times fosters come along and want to help and if they are capable and understand the laws etc with greyhounds why not give them a shot but like you said it can get tricky at that point.

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I've shown support for Greylvr and offered advice - in a way that doesn't drag her over hot coals. It's not my fault you don't see that as relevant, I just don't see the need to go over things that have been covered here. Over, and over, and over again.

But I haven't been repeating myself. Every time I have posted I have included further information.

I would rather speak up about potential problems than wait and complain when things go wrong. There is a lot that the op needs to be aware of to avoid the type of problems that burn adopters and carers.

It would be impossible for me to try to describe them all here, it takes time and help from those who know greyhounds well.

To set up an organisation is to attract public attention. The op seems to underestimate her ability to make an impact in the community and over estimate the size of other organisations in the rescue scene.

So to move on with this topic I would ask grylver why she needs to start an organisation instead of rehoming privately? If she wants to work on a small scale with one breeder then private rehoming is appropriate for now. If somebody starts an organisation then then the community expectations are going to be a lot higher.

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I've shown support for Greylvr and offered advice - in a way that doesn't drag her over hot coals. It's not my fault you don't see that as relevant, I just don't see the need to go over things that have been covered here. Over, and over, and over again.

But I haven't been repeating myself. Every time I have posted I have included further information.

I would rather speak up about potential problems than wait and complain when things go wrong. There is a lot that the op needs to be aware of to avoid the type of problems that burn adopters and carers.

It would be impossible for me to try to describe them all here, it takes time and help from those who know greyhounds well.

To set up an organisation is to attract public attention. The op seems to underestimate her ability to make an impact in the community and over estimate the size of other organisations in the rescue scene.

So to move on with this topic I would ask grylver why she needs to start an organisation instead of rehoming privately? If she wants to work on a small scale with one breeder then private rehoming is appropriate for now. If somebody starts an organisation then then the community expectations are going to be a lot higher.

How is what you are describing different than this

So lets see what I had wanted to do:

Start a small rescue with my husband the dogs being here unless we stumble upon someone who wants to foster

The money that goes into the rescue will be our own

The stuff the dogs need we will buy unless someone wants to send us toys or presents for the dogs.

We will be within all the laws and a copy of the laws will be sent home with anyone who takes a dog

The dogs will be sent out with a info packet on lots of things to do with greyhounds

The dogs will be de sexed, vaccinate, microchipped, vet checked, tested with cats, dogs and kids, with a flea treatment.

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I think you'll find that the reason that some people are harping on about Greylvr joining a larger group for a while prior to starting out on her own, is that we have seen exactly how bad it can be if/when a new group DOESN'T get it right. Not just for the person(s) involved in the new venture, but for rescue as a whole.

Some of Greylvr's statements about her own levels of experience, her previous rehoming stories, and her complete willingness to write off the current organisations doing Greyhound rescue based on training suggestions on their website, leaves some of us just not feeling the love with regards to her aspirations.

If my comments voicing my concerns about some aspects of Greylvr's proposition come across as just being mean for the sake of it, then you're missing the point completely - and I don't think Greytmate's advice has been all that critical either. We may have been mistaken when reading Greylvr's original posts as asking for advice, rather than just asking for warm fuzzy praise - which it now appears it was aimed at receiving.

Has Greylvr stood back and wondered exactly why the larger groups have a waiting list to have dogs placed with them? It's not as simple as saying that one sees dogs dying because of that wait, and we need to save as many as we can... correlations to another group's philosophies there anyone??

T.

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O.K. Hang on. You came here looking to set up a new rescue group so here is my advice.

For just a minute forget about the type of dogs.This is some of the stuff we help rescue with via the MDBA.

Best way to approach it is to research it and sit down and write it up as a business plan. Be honest no one other than you has to see it but it will take you to the end and make it very clear to you what its going to take and what you need to cover if you are not going to burn out and not enjoy the journey.

Sounds like its a bit of a silly thing to do when you only want to be small and operate it all form home etc but you will be surprised at how it all comes together and make you see more clearly what your challenges will be and how to deal with them or see they are not worth the effort.It is really the difference between whether a rescue group will be effective and whether they will still be here in 5 years time.

Write it as if I am reading it and assessing whether I think you are a good bet to give you a massive donation to help you to get started.

Start with an executive summary. Tell me your business concept in general terms ,what services you will provide and how you will ensure your are doing the best thing possible by the dogs and the adopter. Tell me how you will achieve the ability to become well known and be able to gather support and operating capital.What if anything will you be doing differently to any established group etc.Why would I want to give you 100,000 to start up over donating to a group that's already established.

Ready.

Your motives for STARTING THE RESCUE GROUP

Tell me how you initially gathered the concept for your rescue

Why you wish to pursue the idea and why you believe you are capable of succeeding

What the opportunity is - talk about why you think the opportunity for you to open your own rescue group exists.

Tell me what the weaknesses and strengths are that you perceive in other groups who will be doing similar to what you are going to do .What you perceive to be current social and industry trends in this area and how this will help you in what you wish to do.

Tell me what your goals and objectives are - all of them and be honest. As well as helping dogs do you want to be seen to be doing what you do and becoming well known or would you prefer to work in the background.Are you looking for social interactions. Are you looking to make any money from this if so how much - enough only to cover the expenses for the dogs, to cover a small wage for you etc. Anything you personally would like to take from it all.

Your target market

Who will you be going after to try to educate

Who will you be going after to gain donations or sales

who will you be obtaining dogs from

Who will you be targeting to try to find homes and foster carers to help you

Financial

What will your start up costs be and will you need help to raise these funds or will they come from your own pocket?

What funds are you going to need to operate on a daily bases or per dog average

What do you expect will be your profit and loss figures for the first year

Business structure and legal requirements.

List and describe your local ,state and federal legal and regulatory requirements and how these will affect your rescue group.

If you are a charity there are extra requirements with ASIC ATO state aprovals for fundraising, more money and pains associated with audits and accountability. Council regs on how many dogs you and any foster carer can keep on their premises and under what laws are you able to do so etc.

What insurance requirements will you need to cover yourself and your volunteers.How much will they cost?

What restrictions/ requirements will be on you to ensure you are operating legally are there any legal requirements on how you can advertise .

What legal contracts will you need drawn up for your volunteers and adopters, people you take dogs from etc?

What your legal name will be and what registrations you will need - ABN, GST PAYG etc.

What tax implications will there be around what business type you have chosen.

Where will your premises be - do you own the property or rent it .Do you expect to move from this place to another? If so when , where and how much will that cost ?

What alternative sites will you have - foster carers homes, kennels, etc and what will you need to cover to ensure these are doing the right thing via law and the dogs and the people?

What have you used to determine the market? How do you know you will be able to place a couple of dogs per month , will you need to place them locally or look at transporting them.What sort of people are most likely to want one of these dogs.

Who is your target market ?What is the size of the market - take stats from other similar groups to see exactly what you should expect to have a general turnover , how long you will need to keep them, how much on average each will cost you.

Current state of this industry

You have consulted here with people involved in the industry,have you recorded this and taken note rather than simply discarded it.

How do you think this attitude which you have experienced may impact on what you intend to do, will it be easy or difficult to work as a wider part of a team, how will competition impact ? have you consulted anywhere else and with anyone else and if so how have the responses impacted what you might do and the way you do it?

Are there any seasonal factors you need to take into account - is it more difficult in winter for you do what you do etc

write up a SWOT analysis

Include how these things might affect you and your family

what are your strengths

weaknesses

opportunities

threats

How will you price your dogs, promotional goods

Who will help you with fundraising and what will you do to raise funds

What plant and equipment will you need

What equipment will your foster carers and transport people need

How will you advertise and promote yourself

how will you deal with complaints

how will you stay in touch with your carers and owners

what are your policies and procedures

how will you screen and train foster cares

how will you do house checks.

what is your risk management plan

what is the expected sales mix

how much from dogs

how much form donations

how much from sales

how will you manage health and safety issues

how will you structure your organisation- will you have specific people working on specific tasks such as fundraising ,web design etc

Finally after all that why do you think this is best for the dogs.

Edited by Steve
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I think you'll find that the reason that some people are harping on about Greylvr joining a larger group for a while prior to starting out on her own, is that we have seen exactly how bad it can be if/when a new group DOESN'T get it right. Not just for the person(s) involved in the new venture, but for rescue as a whole.

Some of Greylvr's statements about her own levels of experience, her previous rehoming stories, and her complete willingness to write off the current organisations doing Greyhound rescue based on training suggestions on their website, leaves some of us just not feeling the love with regards to her aspirations.

If my comments voicing my concerns about some aspects of Greylvr's proposition come across as just being mean for the sake of it, then you're missing the point completely - and I don't think Greytmate's advice has been all that critical either. We may have been mistaken when reading Greylvr's original posts as asking for advice, rather than just asking for warm fuzzy praise - which it now appears it was aimed at receiving.

Has Greylvr stood back and wondered exactly why the larger groups have a waiting list to have dogs placed with them? It's not as simple as saying that one sees dogs dying because of that wait, and we need to save as many as we can... correlations to another group's philosophies there anyone??

T.

Yes and I never said save them all as a matter of fact I know that you cant save them all and some will not be saved for many reasons. If your implying that I think quantity over quality when placing dogs your wrong thats not how I think. :mad

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O.K. Hang on. You came here looking to set up a new rescue group so here is my advice.

For just a minute forget about the type of dogs.This is some of the stuff we help rescue with via the MDBA.

Best way to approach it is to research it and sit down and write it up as a business plan. Be honest no one other than you has to see it but it will take you to the end and make it very clear to you what its going to take and what you need to cover if you are not going to burn out and not enjoy the journey.

Sounds like its a bit of a silly thing to do when you only want to be small and operate it all form home etc but you will be surprised at how it all comes together and make you see more clearly what your challenges will be and how to deal with them or see they are not worth the effort.It is really the difference between whether a rescue group will be effective and whether they will still be here in 5 years time.

Write it as if I am reading it and assessing whether I think you are a good bet to give you a massive donation to help you to get started.

Start with an executive summary. Tell me your business concept in general terms ,what services you will provide and how you will ensure your are doing the best thing possible by the dogs and the adopter. Tell me how you will achieve the ability to become well known and be able to gather support and operating capital.What if anything will you be doing differently to any established group etc.Why would I want to give you 100,000 to start up over donating to a group that's already established.

Ready.

Your motives for STARTING THE RESCUE GROUP

Tell me how you initially gathered the concept for your rescue

Why you wish to pursue the idea and why you believe you are capable of succeeding

What the opportunity is - talk about why you think the opportunity for you to open your own rescue group exists.

Tell me what the weaknesses and strengths are that you perceive in other groups who will be doing similar to what you are going to do .What you perceive to be current social and industry trends in this area and how this will help you in what you wish to do.

Tell me what your goals and objectives are - all of them and be honest. As well as helping dogs do you want to be seen to be doing what you do and becoming well known or would you prefer to work in the background.Are you looking for social interactions. Are you looking to make any money from this if so how much - enough only to cover the expenses for the dogs, to cover a small wage for you etc. Anything you personally would like to take from it all.

Your target market

Who will you be going after to try to educate

Who will you be going after to gain donations or sales

who will you be obtaining dogs from

Who will you be targeting to try to find homes and foster carers to help you

Financial

What will your start up costs be and will you need help to raise these funds or will they come from your own pocket?

What funds are you going to need to operate on a daily bases or per dog average

What do you expect will be your profit and loss figures for the first year

Business structure and legal requirements.

List and describe your local ,state and federal legal and regulatory requirements and how these will affect your rescue group.

If you are a charity there are extra requirements with ASIC ATO state aprovals for fundraising, more money and pains associated with audits and accountability. Council regs on how many dogs you and any foster carer can keep on their premises and under what laws are you able to do so etc.

What insurance requirements will you need to cover yourself and your volunteers.How much will they cost?

What restrictions/ requirements will be on you to ensure you are operating legally are there any legal requirements on how you can advertise .

What legal contracts will you need drawn up for your volunteers and adopters, people you take dogs from etc?

What your legal name will be and what registrations you will need - ABN, GST PAYG etc.

What tax implications will there be around what business type you have chosen.

Where will your premises be - do you own the property or rent it .Do you expect to move from this place to another? If so when , where and how much will that cost ?

What alternative sites will you have - foster carers homes, kennels, etc and what will you need to cover to ensure these are doing the right thing via law and the dogs and the people?

What have you used to determine the market? How do you know you will be able to place a couple of dogs per month , will you need to place them locally or look at transporting them.What sort of people are most likely to want one of these dogs.

Who is your target market ?What is the size of the market - take stats from other similar groups to see exactly what you should expect to have a general turnover , how long you will need to keep them, how much on average each will cost you.

Current state of this industry

You have consulted here with people involved in the industry,have you recorded this and taken note rather than simply discarded it.

How do you think this attitude which you have experienced may impact on what you intend to do, will it be easy or difficult to work as a wider part of a team, how will competition impact ? have you consulted anywhere else and with anyone else and if so how have the responses impacted what you might do and the way you do it?

Are there any seasonal factors you need to take into account - is it more difficult in winter for you do what you do etc

write up a SWOT analysis

Include how these things might affect you and your family

what are your strengths

weaknesses

opportunities

threats

How will you price your dogs, promotional goods

Who will help you with fundraising and what will you do to raise funds

What plant and equipment will you need

What equipment will your foster carers and transport people need

How will you advertise and promote yourself

how will you deal with complaints

how will you stay in touch with your carers and owners

what are your policies and procedures

how will you screen and train foster cares

how will you do house checks.

what is your risk management plan

what is the expected sales mix

how much from dogs

how much form donations

how much from sales

how will you manage health and safety issues

how will you structure your organisation- will you have specific people working on specific tasks such as fundraising ,web design etc

Finally after all that why do you think this is best for the dogs.

Thanks this is a lot but very good advice. :)

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