Look What They Have Done To Our Dogs.

[Sheridan]

If you believe the AR nuts, all pedigreed dogs are incredibly unhealthy, and all pound/shelter dogs have "issues", and all pet shop pups come from atrocious puppy mills... are there any dogs fit for the pet market? Oh yes... the BYB mob... *sigh*

T.

I prefer the term 'whacktivist'.

[~Anne~]

I've seen a few Pugs with missing eyes and saw one have its eye pierced by something due to being very prominent but never seen one actually fall out. I agree Jed, some breeds are best left to experts!

Missing eyes are common. In having said that though the most common cause that I have seen to remove the eyes of any pug are not from issues related to prolapse itself, but eye injuries, which may or may not result in a prolapse. The eyes do not need to be prominent for this to occur but it is still breed related. Without a long muzzle to protect the eyes when faced with cats, bushes and other hazards, the eyes are at higher risk and are often punctured and or scratched. I have a bitch here who has had 3 eye injuries this year alone although her eye issues are exacerbated by partial blindness caused by pigmentary keratitis, which is yet another common issue I have witnessed in the many pugs I have loved and known.

One positive thing to come out of these debates and arguments is that the health of the purebred dog is highlighted which in turn encourages awareness and education. It can only be a good thing.

[LizT]

Grooming literally "Makes or breaks" a coat in the true sense of the word. A lot of time and care goes into a long flowing coat..the same breed today can have a coat that is broken by incorrect, no make that less fussy grooming. combing, brushing out knots ect. leads to a shorter coat. The working Old English sheepdog can have quite a short coat, who is not to say that old picture had a dog that was tended to by the very sames shears it's master uses on it's charges. The sheep.

While do people have o much trouble dealingwith "ecoloution"?

Go to any mueseum and look at the clothing people wore a few hundred years ago. I defy you to fit a 12 year old child into the dress and coats worn by the populace back then. We ourselves are taller, heavier built and stronger than our great grand parents were. So why so surprised our pets have not evolved along with us.

[puglvr]

I have a girl pug who had a partial prolapse and her eye went back into position with gentle pressure. The second time she received a knock to the eye and it prolapsed out further and needed surgery to replace the eye. Obviously the nerve was damaged and so she has no or very little vision in that eye. The vet said it was the surrounding muscles and ligament that were the problem not the eye socket itself. She does not have bulgy eyes. She is twelve and a half. She was from a natural mating, her mother whelped freely. She herself had two natural matings and whelped freely.

She is the only pug of 18 that I have owned that has this type of injury. Yes I have had eye injuries with some of the others. Most have been "minor" and treated with medication. A couple have been more severe and needed surgery and "aggressive" therapy to save the eye. The eye specialist has said that my pugs have very good eyes, being nice and tight and not bulging. I always tell my new puppy buyer that the most important thing is that they know their pugs eyes. Know what is normal and at the first sign of any abnormality, off to the vet straight away. I have found that most injuries occur when they are young and go like a bull at a gate. My pugs all live together and have free run together (which is how they like it) and I accept that this is possibly why some injuries occur.

There are problems in the pug breed. There are problems in most breeds. There are no quick fixes. I must be one of the lucky ones who just happens to own 15 pugs at the moment who range in age from 1 through to 14. All products of natural matings, for the most part free whelped, no major health issues.13 from the same bloodlines, 1 totally different line and 1 rescue.

[Bullbreedlover]

I wasn't thinking of the British bulldog when I made that post. Telling.

Why do you assume that someone that thinks a dog should be able to breath when it is 30 degrees isn't a bb supporter? Anyone who thinks that is okay isn't a supporter of dogs at all I'll get accused of breeder bashing no doubt, but I hold ethical breeders in very high regard. Those breeding exaggerated features to the dertrimant of their dogs aren't amongst those.

I have to agree that I am not a bb supporter. I recently had a AB stay with me for a few days, she was built a lot like a bb and it was 27 and she was stressed. I kept thinking she was going to die. She just laid on the cold tiles all day. Breeding a dog like that, with those health problems... definitely not my idea of positive evolution of dog breeding. I'm not a huge fan of the brachy dogs though.

I love BBs but its because I love them that I will never buy another. We had one and that poor guy couldnt go for a proper walk, and when it got hot had a very hard time. Thats when I decided that it was not right, no living thing should have to live like that because we think they are cute. I will never own another unless they can un do what has been done to them. Thats just my opinion though and I am sure some people love them just the way they are.

Pray tell me G, In your opinion what is it that has been "done to them" that you would like undone.

You had one Bulldog that in your opinion could not walk and could not breathe in hot weather. So does that make all Bulldogs unable to walk and breathe in hot weather? In regards to the breeder, what did they do about the problem? Is that breeder still breeding?

[Bullbreedlover]

I wasn't thinking of the British bulldog when I made that post. Telling.

Why do you assume that someone that thinks a dog should be able to breath when it is 30 degrees isn't a bb supporter? Anyone who thinks that is okay isn't a supporter of dogs at all I'll get accused of breeder bashing no doubt, but I hold ethical breeders in very high regard. Those breeding exaggerated features to the dertrimant of their dogs aren't amongst those.

Something about that part of your post doesnt make sense. Please elaborate.

So which breed were you referring to in your post?

[Greylvr]

I wasn't thinking of the British bulldog when I made that post. Telling.

Why do you assume that someone that thinks a dog should be able to breath when it is 30 degrees isn't a bb supporter? Anyone who thinks that is okay isn't a supporter of dogs at all I'll get accused of breeder bashing no doubt, but I hold ethical breeders in very high regard. Those breeding exaggerated features to the dertrimant of their dogs aren't amongst those.

I have to agree that I am not a bb supporter. I recently had a AB stay with me for a few days, she was built a lot like a bb and it was 27 and she was stressed. I kept thinking she was going to die. She just laid on the cold tiles all day. Breeding a dog like that, with those health problems... definitely not my idea of positive evolution of dog breeding. I'm not a huge fan of the brachy dogs though.

I love BBs but its because I love them that I will never buy another. We had one and that poor guy couldnt go for a proper walk, and when it got hot had a very hard time. Thats when I decided that it was not right, no living thing should have to live like that because we think they are cute. I will never own another unless they can un do what has been done to them. Thats just my opinion though and I am sure some people love them just the way they are.

Pray tell me G, In your opinion what is it that has been "done to them" that you would like undone.

You had one Bulldog that in your opinion could not walk and could not breathe in hot weather. So does that make all Bulldogs unable to walk and breathe in hot weather? In regards to the breeder, what did they do about the problem? Is that breeder still breeding?

The breeder did nothing and I assume still breeds. What I am talking about is the more compact faces, the legs being more turned out things like that. I am a vet tech we see what problems the breed has all the time. Its lots of breeds I know and there are lots of good breeders out there but honestly if you could reverse the issues with a magic wand would you not want too?

[Bullbreedlover]

I wasn't thinking of the British bulldog when I made that post. Telling.

Why do you assume that someone that thinks a dog should be able to breath when it is 30 degrees isn't a bb supporter? Anyone who thinks that is okay isn't a supporter of dogs at all I'll get accused of breeder bashing no doubt, but I hold ethical breeders in very high regard. Those breeding exaggerated features to the dertrimant of their dogs aren't amongst those.

I have to agree that I am not a bb supporter. I recently had a AB stay with me for a few days, she was built a lot like a bb and it was 27 and she was stressed. I kept thinking she was going to die. She just laid on the cold tiles all day. Breeding a dog like that, with those health problems... definitely not my idea of positive evolution of dog breeding. I'm not a huge fan of the brachy dogs though.

An AB. Do you mean and Australasian Bandogge? They are a crossbreed. Nothing to do with a British Bulldog in my opinion. And nothing to do with positive evolution of dog breeding.

[Bullbreedlover]

ETA: I'm sure there are healthy, well bred bulldogs out there and ethical breeders. I don't understand why the dodgies have been able to dominate.

Do you really think so?

I know so.

[Greylvr]

I wasn't thinking of the British bulldog when I made that post. Telling.

Why do you assume that someone that thinks a dog should be able to breath when it is 30 degrees isn't a bb supporter? Anyone who thinks that is okay isn't a supporter of dogs at all I'll get accused of breeder bashing no doubt, but I hold ethical breeders in very high regard. Those breeding exaggerated features to the dertrimant of their dogs aren't amongst those.

I have to agree that I am not a bb supporter. I recently had a AB stay with me for a few days, she was built a lot like a bb and it was 27 and she was stressed. I kept thinking she was going to die. She just laid on the cold tiles all day. Breeding a dog like that, with those health problems... definitely not my idea of positive evolution of dog breeding. I'm not a huge fan of the brachy dogs though.

An AB. Do you mean and Australasian Bandogge? They are a crossbreed. Nothing to do with a British Bulldog in my opinion. And nothing to do with positive evolution of dog breeding.

I thought she meant American Bulldog some of those are being bred horribly and thats another breed that will be in trouble without good breeders to turn too.

[mixeduppup]

I wasn't thinking of the British bulldog when I made that post. Telling.

Why do you assume that someone that thinks a dog should be able to breath when it is 30 degrees isn't a bb supporter? Anyone who thinks that is okay isn't a supporter of dogs at all I'll get accused of breeder bashing no doubt, but I hold ethical breeders in very high regard. Those breeding exaggerated features to the dertrimant of their dogs aren't amongst those.

I have to agree that I am not a bb supporter. I recently had a AB stay with me for a few days, she was built a lot like a bb and it was 27 and she was stressed. I kept thinking she was going to die. She just laid on the cold tiles all day. Breeding a dog like that, with those health problems... definitely not my idea of positive evolution of dog breeding. I'm not a huge fan of the brachy dogs though.

An AB. Do you mean and Australasian Bandogge? They are a crossbreed. Nothing to do with a British Bulldog in my opinion. And nothing to do with positive evolution of dog breeding.

She was built very much like the bbs I see today. I don't agree with the bbs conformation.

[Steve]

Deliberately breeding dogs which are at risk of suffering due to the way they look or because of a high likelihood of disease is cruelty - far greater cruelty in my opinion than puppy farming and the public can see that a mile away .

It takes lots of time to fix it because the methods of breeding purebred dogs and how they are tested as being good examples of the breed is stuck in the last millenium.

Some breeds were written about over 30 years ago with red lights flashing and considering dogs reproduce much faster than humans that's up to 30 generations of "we're working on it "

Pussy foot around it deny it all you want beat up anyone who says something perceived to be against purebreds but its a plain as the nose on their faces and unless something real happens to correct it in some breeds that shows results pretty quickly with less dogs suffering someone is going to give us no choice.

[Bullbreedlover]

Deliberately breeding dogs which are at risk of suffering due to the way they look or because of a high likelihood of disease is cruelty - far greater cruelty in my opinion than puppy farming and the public can see that a mile away .

It takes lots of time to fix it because the methods of breeding purebred dogs and how they are tested as being good examples of the breed is stuck in the last millenium.

Some breeds were written about over 30 years ago with red lights flashing and considering dogs reproduce much faster than humans that's up to 30 generations of "we're working on it "

Pussy foot around it deny it all you want beat up anyone who says something perceived to be against purebreds but its a plain as the nose on their faces and unless something real happens to correct it in some breeds that shows results pretty quickly with less dogs suffering someone is going to give us no choice.

Another one with words of wisdom.

Please Steve, Tell us something we dont already know.

You really do sound like a broken record.

Who is pussy footing around? Who is denying anything?

So breeding a dog which is suffering is far more crueler than a puppy farmer?

No one who wants to preserve a breed and who has the best interests of the breed in mind wants to breed dogs that are suffering. One bad onion taints a whole crop in your opinion doesnt it.

But there are puppy farmers out there. Are some of these people have even been members of the "group" you belong to.

Was wondering when you were going to offer this thread, experiences of your vast knowledge of the world of dogs.

[Bullbreedlover]

I wasn't thinking of the British bulldog when I made that post. Telling.

Why do you assume that someone that thinks a dog should be able to breath when it is 30 degrees isn't a bb supporter? Anyone who thinks that is okay isn't a supporter of dogs at all I'll get accused of breeder bashing no doubt, but I hold ethical breeders in very high regard. Those breeding exaggerated features to the dertrimant of their dogs aren't amongst those.

I have to agree that I am not a bb supporter. I recently had a AB stay with me for a few days, she was built a lot like a bb and it was 27 and she was stressed. I kept thinking she was going to die. She just laid on the cold tiles all day. Breeding a dog like that, with those health problems... definitely not my idea of positive evolution of dog breeding. I'm not a huge fan of the brachy dogs though.

An AB. Do you mean and Australasian Bandogge? They are a crossbreed. Nothing to do with a British Bulldog in my opinion. And nothing to do with positive evolution of dog breeding.

She was built very much like the bbs I see today. I don't agree with the bbs conformation.

So what if she was built very much like the Bulldogs you see today! She was a CROSSBREED.

[Bullbreedlover]

For those who care enough and who would like to be informed of the outcome of the Standard change in the UK.

http://www.bulldogbreedcouncil.co.uk/Bulldog_Standard.htm

[WreckitWhippet]

I wasn't thinking of the British bulldog when I made that post. Telling.

Why do you assume that someone that thinks a dog should be able to breath when it is 30 degrees isn't a bb supporter? Anyone who thinks that is okay isn't a supporter of dogs at all I'll get accused of breeder bashing no doubt, but I hold ethical breeders in very high regard. Those breeding exaggerated features to the dertrimant of their dogs aren't amongst those.

I have to agree that I am not a bb supporter. I recently had a AB stay with me for a few days, she was built a lot like a bb and it was 27 and she was stressed. I kept thinking she was going to die. She just laid on the cold tiles all day. Breeding a dog like that, with those health problems... definitely not my idea of positive evolution of dog breeding. I'm not a huge fan of the brachy dogs though.

An AB. Do you mean and Australasian Bandogge? They are a crossbreed. Nothing to do with a British Bulldog in my opinion. And nothing to do with positive evolution of dog breeding.

She was built very much like the bbs I see today. I don't agree with the bbs conformation.

So what if she was built very much like the Bulldogs you see today! She was a CROSSBREED.

I feel for you, I really do.

It doesn't matter what the British Bulldog folk do, or how well they do it, they are going to be tarred with the same brush.

If McGreevy has his way, the medical history of that dog would be lumped in with your pedigree dogs and will be used to drive the final nail in the coffin.

[Steve]

Deliberately breeding dogs which are at risk of suffering due to the way they look or because of a high likelihood of disease is cruelty - far greater cruelty in my opinion than puppy farming and the public can see that a mile away .

It takes lots of time to fix it because the methods of breeding purebred dogs and how they are tested as being good examples of the breed is stuck in the last millenium.

Some breeds were written about over 30 years ago with red lights flashing and considering dogs reproduce much faster than humans that's up to 30 generations of "we're working on it "

Pussy foot around it deny it all you want beat up anyone who says something perceived to be against purebreds but its a plain as the nose on their faces and unless something real happens to correct it in some breeds that shows results pretty quickly with less dogs suffering someone is going to give us no choice.

Another one with words of wisdom.

Please Steve, Tell us something we dont already know.

You really do sound like a broken record.

Who is pussy footing around? Who is denying anything?

So breeding a dog which is suffering is far more crueler than a puppy farmer?

No one who wants to preserve a breed and who has the best interests of the breed in mind wants to breed dogs that are suffering. One bad onion taints a whole crop in your opinion doesnt it.

But there are puppy farmers out there. Are some of these people have even been members of the "group" you belong to.

Was wondering when you were going to offer this thread, experiences of your vast knowledge of the world of dogs.

And as usual go after me personally dont debate the issue - beat up anyone who might think a little differently and has the gall to say so. Though I notice you have already admitted some get it wrong and thats O.K.

Get it right I didnt say one bad onion taints the whole crop ,I didn't think it and I didn't mean that but reality check some breeds are in big trouble and more than one breeder in those breeds have contributed to that and the current method of selection and "we're working on it" beating hell out of anyone daring to consider selecting differently for a minute is holding back quicker solutions. By the way I do more to promote purebred breeders,what they do and their dogs than most and at the end of the day I want all of the breeds we have to prosper, expect to live long healthy lives and be around forever. That doesn't mean I cant see that some get it wrong and its time to pull the finger out or loose the rights we have because some have lost sight of what is best for the dogs in their quest for one goal or another and their inability to see or consider other potential alternatives to make it better quicker is screaming out to those who are watching.

In my opinion breeding dogs in rotten conditions affects those dogs only - and I didn't say it was a good thing to breed dogs for profit in rotten conditions or that it wasn't cruel but in my opinion deliberately breeding dogs which a breeder [notice I didn't say all breeders or any breeders in particular] knows has a fair chance at a poor quality of life,lack of longevity generation after generation is more cruel.

Im more than happy to debate the issue but if you need to make it personal and play the man and not the ball Im not interested in playing - thanks anyway.

[Steve]

I wasn't thinking of the British bulldog when I made that post. Telling.

Why do you assume that someone that thinks a dog should be able to breath when it is 30 degrees isn't a bb supporter? Anyone who thinks that is okay isn't a supporter of dogs at all I'll get accused of breeder bashing no doubt, but I hold ethical breeders in very high regard. Those breeding exaggerated features to the dertrimant of their dogs aren't amongst those.

I have to agree that I am not a bb supporter. I recently had a AB stay with me for a few days, she was built a lot like a bb and it was 27 and she was stressed. I kept thinking she was going to die. She just laid on the cold tiles all day. Breeding a dog like that, with those health problems... definitely not my idea of positive evolution of dog breeding. I'm not a huge fan of the brachy dogs though.

An AB. Do you mean and Australasian Bandogge? They are a crossbreed. Nothing to do with a British Bulldog in my opinion. And nothing to do with positive evolution of dog breeding.

She was built very much like the bbs I see today. I don't agree with the bbs conformation.

So what if she was built very much like the Bulldogs you see today! She was a CROSSBREED.

I feel for you, I really do.

It doesn't matter what the British Bulldog folk do, or how well they do it, they are going to be tarred with the same brush.

If McGreevy has his way, the medical history of that dog would be lumped in with your pedigree dogs and will be used to drive the final nail in the coffin.

Yep

[Bullbreedlover]

Deliberately breeding dogs which are at risk of suffering due to the way they look or because of a high likelihood of disease is cruelty - far greater cruelty in my opinion than puppy farming and the public can see that a mile away .

It takes lots of time to fix it because the methods of breeding purebred dogs and how they are tested as being good examples of the breed is stuck in the last millenium.

Some breeds were written about over 30 years ago with red lights flashing and considering dogs reproduce much faster than humans that's up to 30 generations of "we're working on it "

Pussy foot around it deny it all you want beat up anyone who says something perceived to be against purebreds but its a plain as the nose on their faces and unless something real happens to correct it in some breeds that shows results pretty quickly with less dogs suffering someone is going to give us no choice.

Another one with words of wisdom.

Please Steve, Tell us something we dont already know.

You really do sound like a broken record.

Who is pussy footing around? Who is denying anything?

So breeding a dog which is suffering is far more crueler than a puppy farmer?

No one who wants to preserve a breed and who has the best interests of the breed in mind wants to breed dogs that are suffering. One bad onion taints a whole crop in your opinion doesnt it.

But there are puppy farmers out there. Are some of these people have even been members of the "group" you belong to.

Was wondering when you were going to offer this thread, experiences of your vast knowledge of the world of dogs.

And as usual go after me personally dont debate the issue - beat up anyone who might think a little differently and has the gall to say so. Though I notice you have already admitted some get it wrong and thats O.K.

Get it right I didnt say one bad onion taints the whole crop ,I didn't think it and I didn't mean that but reality check some breeds are in big trouble and more than one breeder in those breeds have contributed to that and the current method of selection and "we're working on it" beating hell out of anyone daring to consider selecting differently for a minute is holding back quicker solutions. By the way I do more to promote purebred breeders,what they do and their dogs than most and at the end of the day I want all of the breeds we have to prosper, expect to live long healthy lives and be around forever. That doesn't mean I cant see that some get it wrong and its time to pull the finger out or loose the rights we have because some have lost sight of what is best for the dogs in their quest for one goal or another and their inability to see or consider other potential alternatives to make it better quicker is screaming out to those who are watching.

In my opinion breeding dogs in rotten conditions affects those dogs only - and I didn't say it was a good thing to breed dogs for profit in rotten conditions or that it wasn't cruel but in my opinion deliberately breeding dogs which a breeder [notice I didn't say all breeders or any breeders in particular] knows has a fair chance at a poor quality of life,lack of longevity generation after generation is more cruel.

Im more than happy to debate the issue but if you need to make it personal and play the man and not the ball Im not interested in playing - thanks anyway.

I havent been beating up anybody Steve. I say what I say. I am so sick of people making comments when they seriously do not know what is going on and what breeders are trying to do. Is it so wrong for me to think that way. And yes in my opinion you are one of them. If people dont like what I say then tough, build a bridge, get over it. But dont expect me to sit back and say nothing and let the people who know jack shit have their ill informed say.

Of course I have admitted breeders get it wrong. It would be quite stupid of me to say they are all perfect. There are many many dogs which should not be bred from in Australia(never mind the rest of the world) and in the perfect world I think Breed Councils should have the power to make some decisions in regards to dogs that get bred.

Clubs pay a fee each year to the Breed Council. They should have some input. But getting someone into power in a Club who doesnt have the right knowledge could also mean the breed suffers.

Personally I dont want to debate the issue with you. Because as from previous debates we have had, I have no respect for your opinions, I have no respect for the "group" you are involved with and I dont actually think that you are properly informed to tell me what it should be like. End of story.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Bullbreedlover

[Bullbreedlover]

I wasn't thinking of the British bulldog when I made that post. Telling.

Why do you assume that someone that thinks a dog should be able to breath when it is 30 degrees isn't a bb supporter? Anyone who thinks that is okay isn't a supporter of dogs at all I'll get accused of breeder bashing no doubt, but I hold ethical breeders in very high regard. Those breeding exaggerated features to the dertrimant of their dogs aren't amongst those.

I have to agree that I am not a bb supporter. I recently had a AB stay with me for a few days, she was built a lot like a bb and it was 27 and she was stressed. I kept thinking she was going to die. She just laid on the cold tiles all day. Breeding a dog like that, with those health problems... definitely not my idea of positive evolution of dog breeding. I'm not a huge fan of the brachy dogs though.

An AB. Do you mean and Australasian Bandogge? They are a crossbreed. Nothing to do with a British Bulldog in my opinion. And nothing to do with positive evolution of dog breeding.

She was built very much like the bbs I see today. I don't agree with the bbs conformation.

So what if she was built very much like the Bulldogs you see today! She was a CROSSBREED.

I feel for you, I really do.

It doesn't matter what the British Bulldog folk do, or how well they do it, they are going to be tarred with the same brush.

If McGreevy has his way, the medical history of that dog would be lumped in with your pedigree dogs and will be used to drive the final nail in the coffin.

Thanks for your opinion Pav :)

I wish it was different and we could change the world in one day as it seems many people think that is the way it should happen.

In Australia, there are actually very very few Specialist Bulldog Judges which is very sad, and if these Judges in my opinion were allowed to have a say(as such) as to what breeders are doing wrong and how many of them should be approaching their breeding programmes then we may see alot more changes out there. This is not about scratching anyones back or belittling anyones breeding programme but it should be about being proactive before things get really out of hand. I am the first to admit that we dont have a perfect dog, but I do also know that there are breeders out there who do have the breeds interest at heart.