zoiboy Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 What are breeders feelings about hernia's? I have a pup from the last litter and she has a very small hernia (it's why I withdrew her from the sale) and it will not affect her acording to the vet. She is one of 10 and the only pup to have a hernia. I do not think breeding her is a great idea, but was wondering how others would feel about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 No, wouldn't breed from her. Can it be repaired ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 It's not a big deal. Lump of fat that didn't go in when the umbilica ring closed. Highly over reacted situation by most breeders who still think that it's genetically inherited and will cause problems. (although no one has EVER been able to tell me what horrible problems will arise from either leaving a hernia in the breeding program or having pups born with them and the quality of life down the track) With longer coats, they go unnoticed...they are easily stitched up at any point in time. The majority of hernia are caused by excessive pulling on the cord at birth, inappropriate handling of the puppies during the important ring closure time, or accident such as pup caught up and stretched out. I've had them over the many years...never found them to be inherited, nor detrimental to any pups health. I've never removed any pup from my breeding program for having one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 It's not a big deal. Lump of fat that didn't go in when the umbilica ring closed. Highly over reacted situation by most breeders who still think that it's genetically inherited and will cause problems. (although no one has EVER been able to tell me what horrible problems will arise from either leaving a hernia in the breeding program or having pups born with them and the quality of life down the track) With longer coats, they go unnoticed...they are easily stitched up at any point in time. The majority of hernia are caused by excessive pulling on the cord at birth, inappropriate handling of the puppies during the important ring closure time, or accident such as pup caught up and stretched out. I've had them over the many years...never found them to be inherited, nor detrimental to any pups health. I've never removed any pup from my breeding program for having one. I am in total agreement with this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoiboy Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 No, wouldn't breed from her. Can it be repaired ? It certianly can and will be repaired when she is a little older. I am not thinking at all about breeding her as I would be concerned about the extra strain late in the pregnancy. My vet is also recomending against breeding her so I was just interested as a could of breeders I know seem to thing it will resolve on it's own and one thinks breeding would be ok and the other is voting for desexing. Oh both are also vet's in their *other lives*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 The risk with big hernias is that organs and intestines can drop down into them and possibly become trapped. I personally wouldn't want to have to pay to get them fixed regularly (I lose enough on every litter as it is). I don't think that would stop me from doing a test litter since the condition isn't life threatening and is fixable, but if it turned up in the test litter then I probably wouldn't be continuing down that road. I also cant see that there would be any greater chance of it rupturing than a bitch who had a C section followed by a natural birth, or any other midline surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I am not thinking at all about breeding her as I would be concerned about the extra strain late in the pregnancy. My vet is also recomending against breeding her so I was just interested as a could of breeders Many vets are still in the dark ages when it comes to breeding hernia affected bitches. (old school teaching unfortunately) Many vets want to err on the side of caution..if they claim it's "Ok" and something does go wrong..they don't want to have any fingers pointed at them with accusations of 'you said it was fine...so I did..now look what happened!' As for 'strain'....that's a new one...never heard of such a thing...it's not got anything to do with anything..if so, you would never have a bitch with a C section whelp again....stretch, push, contractions..strain,.....if it DID affect the bitch...one has to seriously wonder how the vet stitched/repaired in the first place to provide such a weakness. The risk with big hernias is that organs and intestines can drop down into them and possibly become trapped. These are easily sorted out, but organs slipping into the pouch are just as easily fixed as a fat blob without future complications. Only when left unattended, can a restriction occur (and possible organ/tissue damage) Even in a young pup, the difference between a fat blob and a severe hernia is easily seen, even by many that don't know much difference between them...trust me, it's VERY easy to feel the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bel Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 in my breed if we eliminated every dog with a hernia we would have a very small gene pool. my bitch due to whelp any day now has a reducable hernia, she has had large litters in the past and has no ill effect at all. When she gets desexed she will have it repaired. As I do early desexing, all my pups with hernias get repaired at the same time, its a simple procedure and never had any problems at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Quite few years ago now I picked my pup a real beauty to keep and breed - at around 6 weeks I discovered she had a small hernia - I did heaps of research and remember one person who had bred for years said one of his best breeders ever had a hernia. Of course it depends if its only a little bit of fat trapped which this one was - my vet said she would be ok - well I finally had her desexed after 5 beautiful litters and he tucked the hernia in and she is now retired with no ill effects whatsoever. She was a strong and beautiful dog and it didn't worry her - but again it was only a bit of trapped fat. I will point out however in the litters she bred there was always a puppy with a hernia - the same small one like their mother and I sold these pups with written promise if the vet charged more at desexing for tucking it in I would gladly pay the extra over and above a normal desexing - none ever asked for extra. I think pehaps it is a bit hereditory as my other girls have not had pups with hernias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I am not thinking at all about breeding her as I would be concerned about the extra strain late in the pregnancy. My vet is also recomending against breeding her so I was just interested as a could of breeders Many vets are still in the dark ages when it comes to breeding hernia affected bitches. (old school teaching unfortunately) Many vets want to err on the side of caution..if they claim it's "Ok" and something does go wrong..they don't want to have any fingers pointed at them with accusations of 'you said it was fine...so I did..now look what happened!' As for 'strain'....that's a new one...never heard of such a thing...it's not got anything to do with anything..if so, you would never have a bitch with a C section whelp again....stretch, push, contractions..strain,.....if it DID affect the bitch...one has to seriously wonder how the vet stitched/repaired in the first place to provide such a weakness. The risk with big hernias is that organs and intestines can drop down into them and possibly become trapped. These are easily sorted out, but organs slipping into the pouch are just as easily fixed as a fat blob without future complications. Only when left unattended, can a restriction occur (and possible organ/tissue damage) Even in a young pup, the difference between a fat blob and a severe hernia is easily seen, even by many that don't know much difference between them...trust me, it's VERY easy to feel the difference. I agree that its easy to feel the difference but the fact is that this is a complication that can happen and not everyone is aware of it so I mentioned it for completeness because it is a consideration. I also know that not all breeders and owners are created equal so there are pups out there that present to the vet with organ entrapment as hard as it is to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 if its a small hernia there is no risk of complications and its unlikely that it something thats heritable if you havent seen it before and only one has it out of a litter of 10 in my opinion. If she was good on all other counts Id breed her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Agree with Angelsun and Steve. I have a bitch with trapped fat about the size of the end of my finger. She had 2 litters and none of her pups had any hernias. This bitches mother also had a tiny one and the one I bred on from is the only one who had a hernia from her 3 litters. The older bitch is now spayed and her hernia seems to have disappeard (it wasn;t sorted when spayed as that incision was lower!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Nope I wouldn't breed a bitch with an umbilical, inguinal hernia or a delayed closure. I don't buy into the line of " the mother was rough was the pup " and eliminate all delayed closures and hernias from my breeding lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 As a relatively new breeder I have pet homed any pup with umbilical hernias (they had them repaired at desexing) but over the years speaking to both experienced breeders and vets and it would appear they are "no big deal" provided they have hardened up and self sealed. Many top stud dogs and bitches have unrepaired umbilical hernias that have just become hard lumps. Personally if one pup has a hernia out of a litter and the rest of the litter is fine, sharing the same DNA it makes little sense, other than the physical risk, if any, to say that the pup without hernias has any better chance of producing further pups without hernias compared to breeding the dog with the hernia. Although that said, if I was to make the decision to breed a bitch that had a hernia, based on her having many better attributes, I personally, would have it repaired at six months, then breed the bitch at 2-3 years. That is my criteria for breeding heart clear anyway so their would also be ample time for the surgery to heal. In discussion, my vet recommends not breeding the bitch until at least six months after a repair job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Agree with all who said they wouldn't worry overly much about it. A small umbilical hernia, and especially 1 in 10 wouldn't phase me one little bit. If on the other hand, it were half of the litter, then that would be a different issue. Quite often a small hernia is caused by mum ripping the cords, or by an over-zealous breeder pulling too hard on the umbilicus during whelping. Why would this preclude a puppy from a show or breeding future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 An interesting occurance in my last litter was the young male, who did not have an umbilical hernia when he went to his new family at 8 weeks. When he reached 12 weeks of age I had a panicked call from his new mum telling me a purpish lump had come up overnight on his tummy and was it a hernia and she was worried he'd strained and hurt himself and opened his umbilical up. She took him over to the vet for a quick check and yes it was an umbilical hernia that had occured from his normal rumble tumble playing (that you expect from a young healthy puppy). Inall likelihood it was a tiny hernia that might have sealed but instead opened up at 12 weeks of age. It was repaired when he was desexed at 6 months of age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 in my breed if we eliminated every dog with a hernia we would have a very small gene pool. my bitch due to whelp any day now has a reducable hernia, she has had large litters in the past and has no ill effect at all. When she gets desexed she will have it repaired. As I do early desexing, all my pups with hernias get repaired at the same time, its a simple procedure and never had any problems at all. The fact that you have a breed widely affected with the problem means that it has to be hereditary in that breed and you should be trying to get a DNA test developed so you can breed around the problem. I believe on very rare occasions an umbilical hernia may be caused by a rough bitch but unless I was sure that was the cause, I would not breed on from an affected dog or bitch. In many cases it is hereditary and to avoid it becoming a problem in other breeds it is safer to not breed from any affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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