Clipping Double Coated Breeds

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

2. The dog in a hot environment is a body radiating at around 39 C in an environment that is typically cooler than the dog.

This might be true in the shade on a day less than 39'C but those Bureau temps are taken in the shade... and in the sun - a whole different story.

I cover up in the sun. I wear long sleeves and trousers and a hat. I would not like to be getting around in a bikini for any period longer than about 5 minutes on any Adelaide day with the temp over about 27'C.

Consider the traditional garb that Bedouins have - they cover up too.

I feel a bit sad for dogs like border collies I see clipped. A lot of dogs do like being clipped and they like the lighter coat but they're not so happy in the full sun.

My dog has an undercoat and top coat. But she's also short coat. She likes to do the sunbake for 10 minutes and the come inside and lie in the dark behind the couch for several hours and repeat. Most of the dogs I saw in hot places like Bali had similar coats. Same with dingos.

I do feel a bit sorry for the arctic coat dogs in South Australia but I think it would be worse if the sun was on them directly. Like an uninsulated house. If the heat can't get in, it can't over heat. I used to live in a house like that - 40'C outside - 40'C inside with the AC on flat out. Not fun.

[Guest donatella]

Trousers and long sleeve in the sun? I'm all for covering up and protecting your skin but regular SPF does the trick. Us qlders live in bikinis, shorts and singlets in the summer. I cannot fathom the thought of long sleeve and trousers in our summer

[Lhok]

Trousers and long sleeve in the sun? I'm all for covering up and protecting your skin but regular SPF does the trick. Us qlders live in bikinis, shorts and singlets in the summer. I cannot fathom the thought of long sleeve and trousers in our summer

I would imagine humidity would play a large role as to why you wouldn't want to cover completely up in Brisbane as opposed to somewhere like the desert. Spf is great but having the sun directly on your skin is awful if you are going to be spending a large amount of time in the direct sun. Where as covering up still allows the skin some cooling.

I used to play cricket, on very hot summer days we would wear long sleeved shirts, popped collars, wide brimmed hats and long white pants. The places with higher humidity we would be covered in sweat as well as being very hot. The other places with a drier heat we would be relatively comfortable while playing (still hot but not dripping with sweat and feeling like we were about to pass out).

So again I wonder more and more about humidity playing a role with dogs and their coat.

Editing to add, one of the vets I used to work with was against people shaving down their dogs unless they were going to apply sunscreen to the dog when it when outside in the sun. He believed that it left the dog exposed to more risk of skin cancer and therefore if the owner wasn't going to do it then grooming out the dog was better in the long run.

--Lhok

Edited October 26, 2015 by Lhok

[_PL_]

I've simply had to clip right back on all sorts of coats. Poor things.

It wasn't like it was an option but I never saw regrowth problems and personally I think dogs are cute with little hairdos. I'd rather an owner do a regular spa day at the groomers than battle with a full coat if they aren't up to it.

I've also seen dogs with shocking coats because owners have only read as far as the 'insulation' bit. And not as far as the bit about maintaining coats.

[Maddy]

conversely to humans, dogs can't control the body temperature by sweating through the skin...they only can do it by evaporating fluid over their mouth / tongue. Hence the coat becomes an insulation like the insulation for a fridge or your house to maintain the temperature inside their body. If it is 40 deg C outside a 'naked' dog would suffer much more and would likely overheat earlier than a dog with a healthy coat.

A dog is not like a house though? A dog is producing its own heat, independent of room temperature. A house does not produce heat, unless you heat it somehow. It's like comparing apples to buses.

This aside, if the theory about coats is correct, why don't short-haired, smooth coated dogs suffer terribly in the heat? And why do these dogs tend to come from warmer climates, unlike the double or long coated dogs which tend to come from cooler climates.

If anyone has any doubts as to the house theory, I'd like to propose a little experiment: Ensure your house has good insulation, cover doors and windows with blankets or towels, etc. Now turn your heat pump up to 37.5. How cool and comfortable are you feeling? Completely not at all because your house is now a horrific oven? Yeah..

[Willem]

...it is about different dedicated cooling systems, and that a dog's cooling system relies on panting = evaporation cooling via exchange of air volume.

[Maddy]

...it is about different dedicated cooling systems, and that a dog's cooling system relies on panting = evaporation cooling via exchange of air volume.

Of course it is. And that's why you can't compare a dog to a house.

But again, heat is still lost through the coat, this is fact. Another experiment for you: touch your dog. Is it warm? It should be, because otherwise it might possibly be dead.

[Salukifan]

Back in a past life on DOL, I was about about as anti clipping double coats as you could get.

These days its more a case of "meh, as long as the dog is comfortable". If you want to trash your dog's coat, sure beats it being matted.

But lets apply some common sense to the clipping. The primary area of heat loss for a dog is through its stomach. There's a reason hot dogs wallow and go belly up to cool.) So why clip the back which is prone to sunburn. (You can follow the logic through to weighing the benefits of cool coats v mats also).

Do what horse people have been doing for centuries. Use a trace clip. Dog has some protection from the elements (the idea of a clipped dog kept outdoors does horrify me) but still has the hair gone where it will do the most good.

Here's a pic of a trace clip.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Haredown Whippets

[Rascalmyshadow]

If a double coat is to be clipped the best option is to leave about an inch on all over (shorter on the belly and chest), takes away a lot of the thickness and helps keep them cool but leaves enough to protect from direct sun.

[Willem]

[Of course it is. And that's why you can't compare a dog to a house.

But again, heat is still lost through the coat, this is fact. Another experiment for you: touch your dog. Is it warm? It should be, because otherwise it might possibly be dead.

...seems you are not familiar with the physics of heat transfer....if my dog is laying in the sun, her black top coat can be well above the 40 deg C as it absorbs the sun light...if she wouldn't have the double coat she would become heavily sunburned and she would more likely overheat as the heat energy will flow from higher temperature to lower temperature - the coat as an insulation prevents this...in the sun even the coat of a dead dog could have a higher temperature if there is enough radiation...following your theory bitumen in the sun is alive because it's hot, yeah?

Edited October 30, 2015 by Willem

[espinay2]

Back in a past life on DOL, I was about about as anti clipping double coats as you could get.

These days its more a case of "meh, as long as the dog is comfortable". If you want to trash your dog's coat, sure beats it being matted.

But lets apply some common sense to the clipping. The primary area of heat loss for a dog is through its stomach. There's a reason hot dogs wallow and go belly up to cool.) So why clip the back which is prone to sunburn. (You can follow the logic through to weighing the benefits of cool coats v mats also).

Do what horse people have been doing for centuries. Use a trace clip. Dog has some protection from the elements (the idea of a clipped dog kept outdoors does horrify me) but still has the hair gone where it will do the most good.

Here's a pic of a trace clip.

Actually something similar to this clip is what I generally recommend and have done from time to time on customer dogs as well as my own older dogs. There was also a Border Collie in the class I taught last night who had had this done this week at a groomer too. I have always referred to it as a 'Belly Buzz'. Basically you clip the chest and belly of the dog and between the back legs. This allows the dog to cool off quicker (and the belly can have contact with cool surfaces) but keeps the rest of the coat intact.

As for shorter haired dogs supposedly not suffering as much, I always remember the time I was down the coast with my dogs (several Pyreneans and a Dalmatian) when we had a sudden heat wave. It was my Dalmatian we had the heat stroke scare with. The Pyrs remained quite comfortable and had no issues with the heat. All dogs were being kept quiet and in the shade together. No difference in the activity level, care or environment they were in.

Edited November 4, 2015 by espinay2

[denali]

Back in a past life on DOL, I was about about as anti clipping double coats as you could get.

These days its more a case of "meh, as long as the dog is comfortable". If you want to trash your dog's coat, sure beats it being matted.

But lets apply some common sense to the clipping. The primary area of heat loss for a dog is through its stomach. There's a reason hot dogs wallow and go belly up to cool.) So why clip the back which is prone to sunburn. (You can follow the logic through to weighing the benefits of cool coats v mats also).

Do what horse people have been doing for centuries. Use a trace clip. Dog has some protection from the elements (the idea of a clipped dog kept outdoors does horrify me) but still has the hair gone where it will do the most good.

Here's a pic of a trace clip.

I do this on my dogs :)

Not along their sides, but their entire undersides are nekkid!

[Maddy]

[Of course it is. And that's why you can't compare a dog to a house.

But again, heat is still lost through the coat, this is fact. Another experiment for you: touch your dog. Is it warm? It should be, because otherwise it might possibly be dead.

...seems you are not familiar with the physics of heat transfer....if my dog is laying in the sun, her black top coat can be well above the 40 deg C as it absorbs the sun light...if she wouldn't have the double coat she would become heavily sunburned and she would more likely overheat as the heat energy will flow from higher temperature to lower temperature - the coat as an insulation prevents this...in the sun even the coat of a dead dog could have a higher temperature if there is enough radiation...following your theory bitumen in the sun is alive because it's hot, yeah?

My single-coated black greyhound likes to sunbake and despite having very sparse hair, she's never been sunburnt- you don't need a fur coat to protect yourself from the sun when a rash vest would do the same job. Being heavily dressed will certainly be more effective due to the thicker layers but you'll also be hot. Because that's how insulation works. A dog produces heat from the inside as a product of metabolism. Dogs with less hair dissipate heat more effectively than dogs with long or thick hair. This seems like it should be pretty simple to understand but I guess if you're intent on being purposely obtuse, I can't really help you.

[aussielover]

[Of course it is. And that's why you can't compare a dog to a house.

But again, heat is still lost through the coat, this is fact. Another experiment for you: touch your dog. Is it warm? It should be, because otherwise it might possibly be dead.

...seems you are not familiar with the physics of heat transfer....if my dog is laying in the sun, her black top coat can be well above the 40 deg C as it absorbs the sun light...if she wouldn't have the double coat she would become heavily sunburned and she would more likely overheat as the heat energy will flow from higher temperature to lower temperature - the coat as an insulation prevents this...in the sun even the coat of a dead dog could have a higher temperature if there is enough radiation...following your theory bitumen in the sun is alive because it's hot, yeah?

So in terms of keeping a dog cool, insulation would only be an advantage in temps of over 40?

I doubt my dog or myself would be outside let alone doing physical activity in temps over 40!

[Willem]

....So in terms of keeping a dog cool, insulation would only be an advantage in temps of over 40?

I doubt my dog or myself would be outside let alone doing physical activity in temps over 40!

NO! ...insulation is always an advantage as long as it doesn't restrict the heat exchange of the dedicated major cooling system, which for the dog is panting (evaporation cooling via nose and mouth) and not the skin. And it doesn't need air temperatures above 40 deg C to heat up surfaces (coats, skin, bitumen, rocks...everything that absorbs sun radiation) above 40 deg C...

[OSoSwift]

Back in a past life on DOL, I was about about as anti clipping double coats as you could get.

These days its more a case of "meh, as long as the dog is comfortable". If you want to trash your dog's coat, sure beats it being matted.

But lets apply some common sense to the clipping. The primary area of heat loss for a dog is through its stomach. There's a reason hot dogs wallow and go belly up to cool.) So why clip the back which is prone to sunburn. (You can follow the logic through to weighing the benefits of cool coats v mats also).

Do what horse people have been doing for centuries. Use a trace clip. Dog has some protection from the elements (the idea of a clipped dog kept outdoors does horrify me) but still has the hair gone where it will do the most good.

Here's a pic of a trace clip.

Yep we used to do the bottom of the chest/belly, the arm pits for grass seed issues and the inside thighs for the same reason. Made a big difference but they still had coat and looked as they should but were more comfy :)

Actually something similar to this clip is what I generally recommend and have done from time to time on customer dogs as well as my own older dogs. There was also a Border Collie in the class I taught last night who had had this done this week at a groomer too. I have always referred to it as a 'Belly Buzz'. Basically you clip the chest and belly of the dog and between the back legs. This allows the dog to cool off quicker (and the belly can have contact with cool surfaces) but keeps the rest of the coat intact.

As for shorter haired dogs supposedly not suffering as much, I always remember the time I was down the coast with my dogs (several Pyreneans and a Dalmatian) when we had a sudden heat wave. It was my Dalmatian we had the heat stroke scare with. The Pyrs remained quite comfortable and had no issues with the heat. All dogs were being kept quiet and in the shade together. No difference in the activity level, care or environment they were in.

[Willem]

...just noticed while I trained our 'so energetic' BC:...5 minutes chasing the rag (the leave it - take it game) and she was puffed out...just 23 deg C outside, but over 90% humidity!!!...she was not even really thirsty - it's just that the 'evaporation cooling' doesn't work as good if the humidity is high.