Franklin The Gungahlin Maremma

[Rebanne]

I also fear for this dog. As Powerlegs has said someone nasty could harm him or as SG has said he could be poled by the rangers. I don't know how old Franklin is or the life expectancy of maremmas but I believe he was a mature dog when he was first at DAS and he has now been on the streets of Gungahlin for a few years - possibly seven or eight years old. I hope the people who have befriended him will show how much they care by making sure he finds his way to maremma rescue with as little trauma as possible. Poor boy!

I think he is better of where and as he is - the chances that someone nasty will hurt him is remote because he wont let them get close to him unless he knows them and already trusts them and why would anyone want to hurt him more than any other animal?

He is living exactly as he is happiest - why poor boy? How would he be happier in rescue ? He is a guardian dog not a pet and clearly he thinks looking after the neighbourhood is his job - where is the harm? Chances of him getting run over are slim- he has managed to avoid it for a hell of a long time so far and just as a roo or a stray dog or a cat or even a child can be at risk jumping out in front of cars I don't see a greater risk for him. they are usually pretty smart road wise. No one who lives in the area is threatened by him or doesn't like him and I bet they are happy when they hear him bark at anything or anyone out of the ordinary . there is one in the states in similar situation that guards the whole town and they havent seen a Kyote for years.

If your concerns are truly about what is best for the dog Id take the way he is living over being trapped and locked up and in unfamiliar company and circumstances.

My oldest Maremma has been 17 and none have died of natural causes before their 15th birthday.

Really? You are happy a dog is allowed, even encouraged to wander around causing near misses with traffic, never wormed, flead (as per the article cause people don't want to double up medications) etc. How totally irresponsible of you.

[Steve]

well actually they have been bred to be less dependent on people and that is why they perform so well on huge properties where they have little or no contact with humans for weeks and in some cases months at a time. They are very well equipped to fend and think for themselves.

How do I know he sees looking after the neighbourhood as part of his job? I dont need to ask him - Because he is a Maremma and if he didn't he wouldn't stay there - .because he has choices - perhaps happy wasnt the word to use - maybe content - dunno I just know there is a difference between a Maremma that appears to be at ease and one that wants out of where it is and is stressed and letting everyone know.So how do I know he is content because if he wasnt he would do what he needed to change it. At any given time he can stay put in one yard ,make friends with one family and make himself their dog etc He has the freedom to choose -could move off to the next town do pretty much whatever he wants and he has made the choice. Perhaps those speaking about him and telling his stories have motives for sharing their stories that are simply due to the way he makes them feel and he has done what he is bred to do - make those he is working with love him and trust him..Those videos are great to be advising on how to act around dogs which are in those working situations but this dog isnt bonded to one species or one person etc .He has accepted what is normal for the environment he is accustomed to as the breed is prone to do

Of course its not an ideal situation but the alternative is in my opinion potentially less ideal and I'm with Andrea and Im happy that he is not seen as a threat , that he can stay in his own territory and people are looking out for him

[Steph M]

I also fear for this dog. As Powerlegs has said someone nasty could harm him or as SG has said he could be poled by the rangers. I don't know how old Franklin is or the life expectancy of maremmas but I believe he was a mature dog when he was first at DAS and he has now been on the streets of Gungahlin for a few years - possibly seven or eight years old. I hope the people who have befriended him will show how much they care by making sure he finds his way to maremma rescue with as little trauma as possible. Poor boy!

I think he is better of where and as he is - the chances that someone nasty will hurt him is remote because he wont let them get close to him unless he knows them and already trusts them and why would anyone want to hurt him more than any other animal?

He is living exactly as he is happiest - why poor boy? How would he be happier in rescue ? He is a guardian dog not a pet and clearly he thinks looking after the neighbourhood is his job - where is the harm? Chances of him getting run over are slim- he has managed to avoid it for a hell of a long time so far and just as a roo or a stray dog or a cat or even a child can be at risk jumping out in front of cars I don't see a greater risk for him. they are usually pretty smart road wise. No one who lives in the area is threatened by him or doesn't like him and I bet they are happy when they hear him bark at anything or anyone out of the ordinary . there is one in the states in similar situation that guards the whole town and they havent seen a Kyote for years.

If your concerns are truly about what is best for the dog Id take the way he is living over being trapped and locked up and in unfamiliar company and circumstances.

My oldest Maremma has been 17 and none have died of natural causes before their 15th birthday.

Really? You are happy a dog is allowed, even encouraged to wander around causing near misses with traffic, never wormed, flead (as per the article cause people don't want to double up medications) etc. How totally irresponsible of you.

I'd be curious if your opinion would change if it was a dog you'd bred. Would you still be happy for one of your dogs to live as Franklin does?

[BarbedWire]

well actually they have been bred to be less dependent on people and that is why they perform so well on huge properties where they have little or no contact with humans for weeks and in some cases months at a time. They are very well equipped to fend and think for themselves.

How do I know he sees looking after the neighbourhood as part of his job? I dont need to ask him - Because he is a Maremma and if he didn't he wouldn't stay there - .because he has choices - perhaps happy wasnt the word to use - maybe content - dunno I just know there is a difference between a Maremma that appears to be at ease and one that wants out of where it is and is stressed and letting everyone know.So how do I know he is content because if he wasnt he would do what he needed to change it. At any given time he can stay put in one yard ,make friends with one family and make himself their dog etc He has the freedom to choose -could move off to the next town do pretty much whatever he wants and he has made the choice. Perhaps those speaking about him and telling his stories have motives for sharing their stories that are simply due to the way he makes them feel and he has done what he is bred to do - make those he is working with love him and trust him..Those videos are great to be advising on how to act around dogs which are in those working situations but this dog isnt bonded to one species or one person etc .He has accepted what is normal for the environment he is accustomed to as the breed is prone to do

Of course its not an ideal situation but the alternative is in my opinion potentially less ideal and I'm with Andrea and Im happy that he is not seen as a threat , that he can stay in his own territory and people are looking out for him

Re bolded part: Curious to know what maremmas who have no contact with humans for weeks or months at a time eat.

[Steve]

well actually they have been bred to be less dependent on people and that is why they perform so well on huge properties where they have little or no contact with humans for weeks and in some cases months at a time. They are very well equipped to fend and think for themselves.

How do I know he sees looking after the neighbourhood as part of his job? I dont need to ask him - Because he is a Maremma and if he didn't he wouldn't stay there - .because he has choices - perhaps happy wasnt the word to use - maybe content - dunno I just know there is a difference between a Maremma that appears to be at ease and one that wants out of where it is and is stressed and letting everyone know.So how do I know he is content because if he wasnt he would do what he needed to change it. At any given time he can stay put in one yard ,make friends with one family and make himself their dog etc He has the freedom to choose -could move off to the next town do pretty much whatever he wants and he has made the choice. Perhaps those speaking about him and telling his stories have motives for sharing their stories that are simply due to the way he makes them feel and he has done what he is bred to do - make those he is working with love him and trust him..Those videos are great to be advising on how to act around dogs which are in those working situations but this dog isnt bonded to one species or one person etc .He has accepted what is normal for the environment he is accustomed to as the breed is prone to do

Of course its not an ideal situation but the alternative is in my opinion potentially less ideal and I'm with Andrea and Im happy that he is not seen as a threat , that he can stay in his own territory and people are looking out for him

Re bolded part: Curious to know what maremmas who have no contact with humans for weeks or months at a time eat.

they usually set up auto feeding stations for them

[Steve]

I also fear for this dog. As Powerlegs has said someone nasty could harm him or as SG has said he could be poled by the rangers. I don't know how old Franklin is or the life expectancy of maremmas but I believe he was a mature dog when he was first at DAS and he has now been on the streets of Gungahlin for a few years - possibly seven or eight years old. I hope the people who have befriended him will show how much they care by making sure he finds his way to maremma rescue with as little trauma as possible. Poor boy!

I think he is better of where and as he is - the chances that someone nasty will hurt him is remote because he wont let them get close to him unless he knows them and already trusts them and why would anyone want to hurt him more than any other animal?

He is living exactly as he is happiest - why poor boy? How would he be happier in rescue ? He is a guardian dog not a pet and clearly he thinks looking after the neighbourhood is his job - where is the harm? Chances of him getting run over are slim- he has managed to avoid it for a hell of a long time so far and just as a roo or a stray dog or a cat or even a child can be at risk jumping out in front of cars I don't see a greater risk for him. they are usually pretty smart road wise. No one who lives in the area is threatened by him or doesn't like him and I bet they are happy when they hear him bark at anything or anyone out of the ordinary . there is one in the states in similar situation that guards the whole town and they havent seen a Kyote for years.

If your concerns are truly about what is best for the dog Id take the way he is living over being trapped and locked up and in unfamiliar company and circumstances.

My oldest Maremma has been 17 and none have died of natural causes before their 15th birthday.

Really? You are happy a dog is allowed, even encouraged to wander around causing near misses with traffic, never wormed, flead (as per the article cause people don't want to double up medications) etc. How totally irresponsible of you.

I'd be curious if your opinion would change if it was a dog you'd bred. Would you still be happy for one of your dogs to live as Franklin does?

Im not that happy for Franklin to be living as he does but based on the circumstances I cant see its as bad as people have thought and its being spoken about without due consideration of the breed and what the alternatives might bring. Of course I wouldnt be happy for one of my dogs to be living like this and its why I put so much into talking about boundaries,thinking hard about taking them for walks off property, training them to come and handling them and keeping them contained even if they work in a paddock.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Steve

[Simply Grand]

It's not just about Franklin though Steve. Just because his FB page (which as mentioned has apparently been edited to remove not so positive comments) and a story in the Canberra Times say that everything is fine, no one feels threatened and he hasn't hurt anyone or any animal yet doesn't mean he won't. And doesn't mean that people don't feel threatened or concerned. I know if I was walking my three dogs on lead and they saw a large dog wandering around nearby they would likely bark and get excited, if I happened to drop a lead they may run across a road to try to go see him, putting them at risk. And also as metioned there have been cases of him causing near misses with traffic on the roads.

We can't know that he isn't killing and eating people's pet rabbits and guinea pigs and chooks. We don't know that he's not setting off people's dog reactive dogs when their owners try to walk them at quiet times. We don't know that one day when he's sick or injured he we won't be able to move away when someone or some dog goes to approach him and he will therefore react with aggression. We don't even know if he's desexed so who knows how many unwanted litters are out there because he jumped a fence to a bitch in season.

Not to mention it's illegal, and those laws exist for a reason.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Simply Grand

[Simply Grand]

Oh btw, the new Minister said in response to mine an others' comments on FB that she would be 'seeking advice'.

[Sheridan]

I am very surprised that any DOLer would say leave him alone. It's illegal and the owners, because he is actually owned, should be fined for every day he's been at large. Everyone else would be.

[BarbedWire]

Okay there must be dozens of maremmas in Canberra atm. They can all roam as they wish. After all they are a special breed. Oh and what about the crossbreeds or lookalikes, I suppose it's okay for them to all roam too. As for regular dog owners, well bad luck you just have to abide by the rules and pay fines and have your dogs registered.

[Scottsmum]

Re bolded part: Curious to know what maremmas who have no contact with humans for weeks or months at a time eat.

they usually set up auto feeding stations for them

Out of genuine curiosity - what would they have most likely done "back in the day"? I was googling them the other day and something I read said they would often be left with a heard / flock while for months at a time.

Wildlife? Sick or dead lambs?

[Xyz]

It's not just about Franklin though Steve. Just because his FB page (which as mentioned has apparently been edited to remove not so positive comments) and a story in the Canberra Times say that everything is fine, no one feels threatened and he hasn't hurt anyone or any animal yet doesn't mean he won't. And doesn't mean that people don't feel threatened or concerned. I know if I was walking my three dogs on lead and they saw a large dog wandering around nearby they would likely bark and get excited, if I happened to drop a lead they may run across a road to try to go see him, putting them at risk. And also as metioned there have been cases of him causing near misses with traffic on the roads.

We can't know that he isn't killing and eating people's pet rabbits and guinea pigs and chooks. We don't know that he's not setting off people's dog reactive dogs when their owners try to walk them at quiet times. We don't know that one day when he's sick or injured he we won't be able to move away when someone or some dog goes to approach him and he will therefore react with aggression. WE DONT EVEN KNOW IF HE IS DESEXED so who knows how many unwanted litters are out there because he jumped a fence to a bitch in season.

Not to mention it's illegal, and those laws exist for a reason.

I have actually heard of a bitch that needed mismate (abortion ) injections because he 'hot' to her. Can't verify its true but from a friend who works in the local Vet there.

Edited for phones spellcheck!!

Edited January 25, 2016 by Xyz

[Simply Grand]

In the hills of Italy in the winter when they were left alone I imagine they hunted rabbits, foxes and the like. Maybe birds.

[Simply Grand]

It's not just about Franklin though Steve. Just because his FB page (which as mentioned has apparently been edited to remove not so positive comments) and a story in the Canberra Times say that everything is fine, no one feels threatened and he hasn't hurt anyone or any animal yet doesn't mean he won't. And doesn't mean that people don't feel threatened or concerned. I know if I was walking my three dogs on lead and they saw a large dog wandering around nearby they would likely bark and get excited, if I happened to drop a lead they may run across a road to try to go see him, putting them at risk. And also as metioned there have been cases of him causing near misses with traffic on the roads.

We can't know that he isn't killing and eating people's pet rabbits and guinea pigs and chooks. We don't know that he's not setting off people's dog reactive dogs when their owners try to walk them at quiet times. We don't know that one day when he's sick or injured he we won't be able to move away when someone or some dog goes to approach him and he will therefore react with aggression. WE DONT EVEN KNOW IF HE IS DESEXED so who knows how many unwanted litters are out there because he jumped a fence to a bitch in season.

Not to mention it's illegal, and those laws exist for a reason.

I have actually heard of a bitch that needed mismate (abortion ) injections because he 'hot' to her. Can't verify its true but from a friend who works in the local Ve thee.

Wouldn't surprise me. If he isn't desexed it would have to have happened sometime.

[BarbedWire]

This is the maremma that no-one can catch.

Edited January 25, 2016 by sarspididious

[Simply Grand]

This is the maremma that no-one can catch.

Ha! Exactly. I don't understand how someone who really cares about a dog can let it just go off to roam suburban streets indefinitely.

[VoodooKitten]

The dog has no REAL road sense. Many have spoken about near misses with him in various vehicles. Maybe it will take until someone actually hits him as they can't swerve fast enough and a tragedy happens. Whether it be him, the driver or passengers that get hurt...or worse...there's nothing good there at all. And everyone would be 'if only we had have...'. Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it? Clearly they ARE able to catch him. And choose not to.

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't. There has to be a better solution out there?

Edited January 25, 2016 by VoodooKitten

[Are You Serious Jo]

The council can be sued if he wrecks a car or causes injuries.

[BarbedWire]

It's not just about Franklin though Steve. Just because his FB page (which as mentioned has apparently been edited to remove not so positive comments) and a story in the Canberra Times say that everything is fine, no one feels threatened and he hasn't hurt anyone or any animal yet doesn't mean he won't. And doesn't mean that people don't feel threatened or concerned. I know if I was walking my three dogs on lead and they saw a large dog wandering around nearby they would likely bark and get excited, if I happened to drop a lead they may run across a road to try to go see him, putting them at risk. And also as metioned there have been cases of him causing near misses with traffic on the roads.

We can't know that he isn't killing and eating people's pet rabbits and guinea pigs and chooks. We don't know that he's not setting off people's dog reactive dogs when their owners try to walk them at quiet times. We don't know that one day when he's sick or injured he we won't be able to move away when someone or some dog goes to approach him and he will therefore react with aggression. WE DONT EVEN KNOW IF HE IS DESEXED so who knows how many unwanted litters are out there because he jumped a fence to a bitch in season.

Not to mention it's illegal, and those laws exist for a reason.

I have actually heard of a bitch that needed mismate (abortion ) injections because he 'hot' to her. Can't verify its true but from a friend who works in the local Ve thee.

Wouldn't surprise me. If he isn't desexed it would have to have happened sometime.

No doubt there are idiots in the neighbourhood who would deliberately allow their in season bitches to run with him so that they could get some cross breed pups and make some money.

[Steph M]

I also fear for this dog. As Powerlegs has said someone nasty could harm him or as SG has said he could be poled by the rangers. I don't know how old Franklin is or the life expectancy of maremmas but I believe he was a mature dog when he was first at DAS and he has now been on the streets of Gungahlin for a few years - possibly seven or eight years old. I hope the people who have befriended him will show how much they care by making sure he finds his way to maremma rescue with as little trauma as possible. Poor boy!

I think he is better of where and as he is - the chances that someone nasty will hurt him is remote because he wont let them get close to him unless he knows them and already trusts them and why would anyone want to hurt him more than any other animal?

He is living exactly as he is happiest - why poor boy? How would he be happier in rescue ? He is a guardian dog not a pet and clearly he thinks looking after the neighbourhood is his job - where is the harm? Chances of him getting run over are slim- he has managed to avoid it for a hell of a long time so far and just as a roo or a stray dog or a cat or even a child can be at risk jumping out in front of cars I don't see a greater risk for him. they are usually pretty smart road wise. No one who lives in the area is threatened by him or doesn't like him and I bet they are happy when they hear him bark at anything or anyone out of the ordinary . there is one in the states in similar situation that guards the whole town and they havent seen a Kyote for years.

If your concerns are truly about what is best for the dog Id take the way he is living over being trapped and locked up and in unfamiliar company and circumstances.

My oldest Maremma has been 17 and none have died of natural causes before their 15th birthday.

Really? You are happy a dog is allowed, even encouraged to wander around causing near misses with traffic, never wormed, flead (as per the article cause people don't want to double up medications) etc. How totally irresponsible of you.

I'd be curious if your opinion would change if it was a dog you'd bred. Would you still be happy for one of your dogs to live as Franklin does?

Im not that happy for Franklin to be living as he does but based on the circumstances I cant see its as bad as people have thought and its being spoken about without due consideration of the breed and what the alternatives might bring. Of course I wouldnt be happy for one of my dogs to be living like this and its why I put so much into talking about boundaries,thinking hard about taking them for walks off property, training them to come and handling them and keeping them contained even if they work in a paddock.

I think that says enough really, if it's not bad given the circumstances/alternatives as you say, why would it not be OK for one of your dogs?

A dog that thinks an entire town is his to protect worries me, even if he's the friendliest dog out he's still a guardian breed who has been bred to watch over his territory.

Allowing him to age and languish is just cruel, what happens when he gets older, sicker or injured?