Cairo1 Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 Hi there, I am very new to the forum and arrived here by accident really. It is a great resource for all kinds of people and one that I now find necessary to use, sadly. I have a 12 year old GSD (desexed male) who is my pride and joy. He has been the main man in my life, he is loyal, protective, kind, smart, social, fun and we have achieved lots in the way of obedience, flyball, tracking and general PR work. Of course I thought he would be with me forever until this week that is and now it has hit home that he is elderly and not going to be with me forever. In a space of about 4 days he has gone from leaping up steps and into the car to barely being able to pick up his back legs. He seems painfree. Today I walked the 100m or so to the shop and to my distress found that he wobbled all the way and found it a bit tiring. Of course I am now beside myself with grief since I know that this is the beginning of the end. I will be taking him to the vet early this week for a medical but I know in my heart that this is what happens to old GSD. I would love to hear from other people, particularly GSD owners/breeders etc (and other large dog owners for that matter) who have had similar experiences. Were there any natural remedies which held the condition at bay? Please tell me everything you know. . . . Mayo is a big boy of about 27" and weighs about 45 kg (he isn't over weight) and has never had any health issues. He is the more traditional shape and has been sound as a bell since forever :-)) Advice would be greatly appreciated Regards Cairo1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 I have never had an old GSD and I don't want Kim, Oliver and Elka to get old, but my old Vizsla pts 13.5 years was on sashas blend for a long time it is good for the joints ask your vet about the liquid supplement it has a pic of a gsd on the label. My friend has a 13.5 gsd and she gets sashas blend and even though slow still plays with the others but she does sleep a lot. Hope you have him longer cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 Cairo, my old longhaired GSD girl lived to about 14 years of age. We rescued her at about the age of 2. Most chondroitin & glucosamine supplements help the oldies out for a while, but funnily enough seem to have less of an effect on BARF fed dogs.... probably because they are already getting lots of cartilage through their food. Metacam is probably one of the safest NSAIDS, available from your vet. Ask about Mobic tablets - the human form of Metacam & therefore much cheaper. Also better absorption in tablet form as the liquid is a suspension & has to be mixed properly. Steroids are usually the last resort. Lots of scary stories about steroids but they can often give an old dog a few last weeks of pain free, quality time. My old girl finally gave up, just would not get up one morning, after going dramatically downhill over a period of about one week. You see, Cairo, Hera had had enough, & my last responsibilty to her was to see that she could leave us with dignity & no pain. It was my last gift to her, & even now as I type, the tears roll down my cheeks, for although I had her PTS 2 years ago now, she holds a special place in my heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairo1 Posted May 15, 2005 Author Share Posted May 15, 2005 Thank you for your responses! Trifecta, thank you also for your information. I suspect that I will have to get some medication for him although he doesn't seem to be in pain as such. What really frightens me is that his Mayo's legs go and he is still spritely in the mind. He still has tremendous will power and I think he will hate it if I leave him behind on walks. At the moment there is a big gap between him giving up (mentally) and the deterioration of his hind legs. I can accept it if he wants to go. I have done that before but having to do it because it is practical (since he can't walk) is a terrible choice. I just cross my fingers that when the time comes, it will come together kindly. Thanks again for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scales of Justice Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 Having been in your situation a number of times I sympathesise with you in the choices you may have to make in the near future, but believe me, you will KNOW when it's time to make decisions if it doesn't happen naturally in the meanwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Cairo, I really think Metacam/ Mobic is the way to go with Mayo. I have a 14 year old BSD x, who has been on this drug for over 12 months. Recently she had a gastric episode & due to the diarrhoea was not absorbing the drug... well you should have seen her, her arthritis was pitiful. She could not stand to eat & fell in her dinner one night! Now she is better, she is once more a different dog. The important thing with metacam/mobic is to give it with food, like all NSAIDS meloxicam can cause gastric ulcers. However, it is really important to seek the advice of your vet, obviously you cannot rely solely on internet advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Hi Trifecta I've got a nearly 16 year old Lab who has been on Metacam for quite some time. I get the largest bottle available which is only 100mls and this has just gone up from $111 to $120. I go through a bottle every 6-8 weeks, depending on whether he's having a good day or not. Can you tell me more about the Mobic tablets as the price of the Metacam is killing me. I've had to take my other two dogs off premium dog food just so I can keep buying the Metacam. I'm surprised that my vet hasn't mentioned this as an alternative as I've discussed the expense at great length with her. Are the tablets proven to be safe for dogs and have the same effect as the Metacam - I've tried a lot of the other anti-inflams but nothing works like the Metacam. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastoraleman Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Hi Cairo The other option is Cartrophen injections. They are often more effective on German Shepherds that Metacam and your vet should be able to teach you to give them yourself. It is a very hard decision to make and remember, that when the time comes, he will be waiting for you at the Rainbow Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Sonic, Mobic is the human form of metacam... the actual drug is meloxicam. Mobic 7.5mg tablets are dosed at the rate of 1 tablet per 100kg. My girl gets 1/4 of a tablet daily as she is about 22kg ( she is BSDxBC). The tablets are made by Boehringer Ingelheim & cost me $44 for a packet of 30 tablets, ie enough for 120 days. Mind you my vet is very cheap! They have not been extensively tested on dogs, & I was told that there has been one mortality in Victoria. However, my vet feels that they are very safe, as safe as the suspension. Moreover, at one time I had 3 old girls on meloxicam, & there is no way I could have afforded the Metacam. I hope this is of use to you. Please let me know if I can give any further info. PM me if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 (edited) Definitely a vet check. My 11yo maremma has chiropractic adjustments every few months. Has done him the world of good. edited to add: Casper is a working dog and lives outside guarding my sheep. Rescued at 8 years old and in a terrible state of health. He also gets supplements of glucosamine chondroiton. Edited May 16, 2005 by dogbesotted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairo1 Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 I am overwhelmed at the generous advice - thank you everyone! Well, we had a vet visit tonight and she pointed out that the problem was neurological and it looks like he has some instability in his mid spine region. Both his back feet were unable to recover from flection tests and he could bare very little weight in his hindquarters. He is now on Rimadyl as well as cartrophen injections and of course Sacha's Blend. I cross my fingers that there will be some improvement from here on in. Thanks again everyone - I will keep you posted and continue to welcome ideas and advice. Cheerio Cairo1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairo1 Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Each time I posted I tried to add an image of Mayo but failed. Hopefully this one works - I finally found the instructions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Most chondroitin & glucosamine supplements help the oldies out for a while, but funnily enough seem to have less of an effect on BARF fed dogs Trifecta, I've never heard this so thanks for the heads up! Do you know anywhere I can get more information? Cairo, your dog is beautiful and I hope he gets better. My last GSD lived to be 20...every winter we would say he wouldn't survive and every summer we would say he wouldn't survive but he just kept on truckin! I think a supplement like sashas blend or Vets All Natural joint formula is a great idea for older dogs, esp. of breeds more likely to have joint probs. I'd consider a physiotherapist. I know there is a great place in Doveton (if you live in Melbourne, VIC) called 'Dogs In Motion'. They also have a swimming pool which is a great way to excersise, especially for dogs that can't be excersised the traditional way. All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 What a gorgeous pensioner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Cairo, thanks for the piccy of your dear old boy. You sound much more relieved since attending the vet. Hope Mayo picks up soon, don't forget to let us know how he goes! Haven, your GSD must be the oldest on record... 20 is an incredible age! Don't have any facts to support this statement yet, but a friend, who is a vet, is undertaking research on this at the moment. Lastly, Sonic, have e-mailed you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Haven, your GSD must be the oldest on record... 20 is an incredible age! I used to call him 'old goat' affectionately, of course (dunno where that came from tho). I kept expecting the neighbours to report us to the RSPCA or something! He looked terrible in the last 6 mths, dull coat, a bag of bones, blind, deaf etc, but he never seemed to be in any pain (medicated for arthritis) and the vet agreed. Passed away peacefully in his sleep. Many fond memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwalchmai_au Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Cairo, keep your chin up. Although I don’t have a GSD, my ol’ bugger (also affectionately called Old Goat, what a coincidence Haven) has reached 18. Recently he went through a very bad patch of ‘flot bot’ – just lying down on a walk, and then more worrying, collapsing in the back legs, followed by front collapse the next day. He was miserable and it looked like the final trip for him. It could have been Vestibular Syndrome but didn’t have all the symptoms. Vet put him on Metacam, (I had him on glucosamine/flaxseed and a special diet). I upped his glucosamine at the same time. A week later he has recovered to his normal geriatric state and is actually quite spritely despite cooling weather. The moral – keep up hope, try all you can and enjoy each extra day he gives you. Best wishes to you both Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairo1 Posted May 20, 2005 Author Share Posted May 20, 2005 AN UPDATE ON MAYO Hello again and thank you for your kind comments and advice! After some thought I have had a second opinion on Mayo's condition. Given that he was on Rimadyl and didn't appear to be in any pain and the fact that he had to be kept absolutely still made me wonder what in fact may be going on? The other professional opinion was much closer to the mark and so I have changed my practices with Mayo. What he in fact has is called Degenerative Myelopathy (also known as German Shepherd Myelopathy). The symptoms fit him to a 'T'. I have learnt a lot more about this disease in the past week and although it is progressive and degenerative, his quality of life should still be quite good. He is now on vitamin B12 suplements and is expected to continue exercising - if for no other reason than to keep his muscle tone maintained. In the end it will be a very hard decision because there is no pain and Mayo continues to be his very affable self! The time will come when he will have no bowel or bladder control and/or not be able to get up anymore. That will be tough for a 45 kg dog - let alone his owner. In the mean time he is now getting even more extra special care than before so that when he goes, I, at least will know that I put the best I could into his care. So, fingers crossed for a slow decline (to give us more time) and a quick one in the end when it becomes critical. That is all I can wish for. Kindest regards to you all Cairo1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Good on you for going with your gut and getting a second opinion! All the best to you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Hi Cairo! CDRM (chronic degenerative radiculo myelopathy) is caused by a degeneration of the nerves supplying the hind quarters, resulting in gradual paralysis & loss of sensation. So the first vet was right in her explanation of it being neurological. Obviously she should have explained things more. I believe that acupuncture can sometimes alleviate the symptoms of CDRM & that there are homoeopathic remedies that help to increase strength in the hindquarters. Vitamin C & blackcurrant seed oil are often given as supplements in the UK. This condition often affects the German Shepherd, but as you say, is thankfully painless but distressing to see. I know you will cherish everyday that you have with Mayo; hugs to you both at this difficult time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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