MumOf2LabBoys Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Background...2 weeks ago Ralphy was put on an 'elimination diet' due to hotspots. I am putting it down to changing from fresh/raw BARF-ish diet, to Supercoat, but i cant be certain his first hotspot appeared after i switched, it could have been the 'beef treats' such as shmackos etc. Vet has put him on Hills Science for allergies for 8 weeks...we then have to go back to the vet and begin the re-introduction of certain foods. My instincts are telling me to just switch him back to raw diet and perhaps eliminate the beef shmackos/liver treats etc, and use the hills kibble for treats OR.. go with the vets advise and continue with the process. With Charlie coming, i want to sort all this out so i can pepare them the same meals. I could also go with the apple cider vinegar in their water etc to eliviate the itches. Would love to hear your opinions. Cheers. Chrissy :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Chrissy...first off....I'm not a vet, so like you, I'd be going on instinct. I would be inclined to go back to BARF and follow it to the letter with no additional treats. From the point of view of a human mother whose children have food intolerances, I wouldn't mind betting that the schmackos etc have added "nasties" which could increase the risk of flare ups. As far as I can see it, BARF being natural, shouldn't aggravate anything whereas even a "prescription" diet still contains chemicals etc. and you never ever know what happens in the canning process either, although I'm aware that things are rarely "heat canned" the way they used to be. I think if your suspicions point to dry food, I'd be doing ONLY BARF with no dry food until the hot spots and itchies are under control and then gradually add one thing at a time to test the tolerance of it. I have done this with my children via an elimination diet where their issues were stabilised on a bare-bones (and BLOODY DISGUSTING) basic diet and then we "challenged" them with extras, one thing at a time. It takes a lot of time and imagination but is well worth the effort. In the meantime, I would be using the Apple Cider Vinegar, but be sure to get it from a Health Food shop or Horse Food supplier because the bottles in the supermarket have colours and preservatives added and this might add to the problem instead of helping it. Good luck!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumOf2LabBoys Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 (edited) Thanks Ellz! I dont mind the Hills....he does so little no.2's now and they are so easy to pick up. The problem is the HILLS STINKS....and his droppings are coated in a black layer...his coat also has become a little smelly....OH and don't talk about his breath!! It reeks since he cant 'clean his teeth' with a good bone. Edited August 2, 2005 by MumOf2LabBoys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I dont mind the Hills....he does so little no.2's now and they are so easy to pick up.The problem is the HILLS STINKS....and his droppings are coated in a black layer...his coat also has become a little smelly....OH and don't talk about his breath!! It reeks since he cant 'clean his teeth' with a good bone. And this in itself leads me to ask what is in it? If it is doing that to his #2's then is it REALLY good for him?? From what I understand of BARF, it has a similar effect on #2's but without the black stuff and smelly breath. I'd be avoiding anything which can create such a "reaction" in his gut and going natural. It's kinda like those hilarious debates people get into over Coke vs Diet Coke. Heck they BOTH have caffeine and one has chemicals which make it sweet, the other has sugar....which one is better for you? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scales of Justice Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I would go with what the vet is proposing. If your dog truly has a reaction to foods he may be allergic to meat and keeping on a BARF diet may not alleviate this. I have no direct experience with the food he proposes but I would imagine the low allergenic foods would eliminate any possible chemical/food causes and then you can start introducing other things to eliminate causes. A hot spot may be being sourced by bacterial/fungal means and may not be relative to the food. I presume you have tried treating these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumOf2LabBoys Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 A hot spot may be being sourced by bacterial/fungal means and may not be relative to the food. I presume you have tried treating these things. Vet made no mention of this at all...?? could you please explain this further? :D We did use a cream for a few days. Neocort it was called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 (edited) You could do the elimination diet on BARF - you'd just need to find meats that he hasn't had before... I think I'd put him back on the BARF as it could be a chemical / preservative sensativity (Asher has this bad)... Then you could also do the elimination diet to see if he has actual food allergies. Most veg are pretty safe, but grains, potatoes and legumes are allergy causes and should be tested too.. Dan ETA: Which hills has he got him on? Edited August 2, 2005 by zayda_asher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumOf2LabBoys Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 Hi Dan, It's the HILLS z/d low allergen, very $$$ Cheers :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Yeah - the z/d ultra is what Zayda was on when we tested... I was curious as some vets use the d/d which the dog can still potentially be allergic to... Did he have yuck poos before or just the hot spots? Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Hi MumOf2LabBoys, If your dog has a very dense coat and has been getting wet and not being dried off properly he could have a fungal infection. Moisture gets trapped deep within the coat next to the skin and if the weather is mild this would be enough to create a 'hot spot' in a susceptible dog. Do you bath and groom him regularly and get rid of all the dead coat? I would be bathing him in Malaseb, leave it on for ten minutes and then dry him thoroughly with a dryer if necessary. Then give him a thorough brush and comb and try to strip out any dead coat. Repeat weekly and see how he goes. True food allergies in dogs aren't common, skin conditions are usually caused by fleas, fungal infections or external allergens like grass, wandering jew etc. Remember that vets make money out of the Hills range, it's in their interests to encourage you to buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumOf2LabBoys Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 He had great poos on the chicken bones and vegies, and YUCKO poos on the supercoat!! They were runny and smelly and just plain unhealthy lookin. Thanks Miranda for the info on the 'fungal' stuff. Being a Lab he is constantly shedding to some degree, so we try to brush him very daily/2nd day. We are being more thorough at drying him off after a swim, but no, we have not yet bathed him as he doesn't smell offensive. He swims weekly so i will make sure we dry him down really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 He had great poos on the chicken bones and vegies, and YUCKO poos on the supercoat!! They were runny and smelly and just plain unhealthy lookin. First question is how long was he actually on the Supercoat for? It can take a while for a dog to become accustomed to a dietary change. I personally have no problems with Supercoat and my dogs, or Pedigree or for a couple of them...el-cheapo old Chum from the supermarket (the ONLY thing that doesn't have them squirting!!)! But having said that, I would still be going back to BARF and then challenging different things from there. I'm always wary of canned anything and especially something which could make the "output" as scary sounding as what you have described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumOf2LabBoys Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 Nah Ellz, he was on the supercoat for 2 huge 18 kilo bags...we were just onto the 3rd when we noticed the 2nd hotspot appear. Both hotspots are in exposed spots. One on the back of his neck and one on his back...so they are not in the usual 'warm spots'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Both hotspots are in exposed spots. One on the back of his neck and one on his back...so they are not in the usual 'warm spots'. The only hotspots my dogs have EVER suffered were on exposed areas as well. One on the back of a neck and the other on his rump, right near his tailset. Apparently they're fairly common areas. I'd be doing away with dry food entirely for the time being anyway. Just feed BARF until you have everything (spots and squits) under complete control and then start challenging. If you only change one thing at a time it will be far easier to know what to eliminate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatDanz Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 He had great poos on the chicken bones and vegies, and YUCKO poos on the supercoat!! They were runny and smelly and just plain unhealthy lookin. I would put him back on chicken, and then once every few weeks add a veggie or a new meat. I agree with the others, the allergy is probably a result of grains or chemicals in the kibble. My younger dane had the same problem with kibble until he was 7 months and I switched him to RAW. Since then, it's never come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordelia Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 My Lab is very prone to hotspots and Supercoat has always triggered one. Within 2 days of eating Supercoat (the normal one not the 'special diet' one), she'll get 1 or 2 hotspots so I haven't fed it since and she hasn't had a hotspot for 3yrs now. I also find that Neocort isn't always effective. I use a cream called INFLAMOL and it clears the hotspot up within days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I am another who says go to BARF. My dog couldnt handle any dog foods, i think it is the cereal in commercial dog food. Since on BARF he has never looked better and i constantly get asked what i feed him, I have even been asked by four different vets. I also do not feed him any pasta, bread or rice IMO dogs were not designed to eat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scales of Justice Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Mumof2LabBoys, Being a Lab he is constantly shedding to some degree, so we try to brush him very daily/2nd day. We are being more thorough at drying him off after a swim, but no, we have not yet bathed him as he doesn't smell offensive. He swims weekly so i will make sure we dry him down really well. Here is your problem!!! You should not swim the dog while he has hot spots. He must be kept absolutely dry and the hot spot should be dried out with something like Friar's Balsam from the chemist. The catch word here is DRY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumOf2LabBoys Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 Here is your problem!!! You should not swim the dog while he has hot spots. He must be kept absolutely dry and the hot spot should be dried out with something like Friar's Balsam from the chemist. The catch word here is DRY!!! The vet said swimming in the salt water of the ocean was great for clearing up the spots/skin probs :D :D LOL I dunno....what do you do? Thanks for the advice. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I too would suggest going back to raw. He did well on it before, didnt he? Cant advise one way or another on the swimming, but rinsing with vinegar will help control fungal and bacterial issues on the skin. Mix up a jug of water and vinegar and pour over. For hotspots you can also apply a mix regularly using a spray bottle and/or swab with cotton wool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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