Working Kelpies/ Bordercollies

[MolassesLass]

Thread Hijack!

Border Collie Rescue Australia (Qld) Introduces Bear - Looking for a New Owner

Bear is a mostly black, good looking male Border Collie x Australian Kelpie. A bigger, more solid sort of black Kelpie in looks and mannerisms. He's approximately 1 year old, a bold and boofy lad with an easy-care short coat. He would need help learning how to be an inside dog, but he's keen to please so with a bit of patience, should be able to master "asking to go outside". Bear would make an energetic companion for someone with an adventurous lifestyle but would also be invaluable to someone looking for a real working companion. He has not chased any vehicles or stock while with his foster carers, no chewing, whingeing or jumping fences (although he has a very agile leap). Bear responds to basic voice commands and whistle, loves attention and is constantly alert, hoping you have something for him to do. Bear is probably suited to a house without cats, but is good with other dogs. He comes desexed, microchipped, fully wormed and vaccinated. $50

[avenglenn]

I was just talking to someone on the weekend. They have all kelpies & 1 BC & said they'll stick to the kelpies from now on. That the kelpies are much easier to trust & when you need to rely on the to make the right decisions, they can without losing it or needing to be managed.

I have to agree with this - I have one three sheep trial bred border collie - and as great as she is re working three sheep - she is high maintenance when working. I purchased her specifically for her breeding and the fact that the stud has produced many successful, top line three sheep trial dogs. And I got what I purchased, a very promising young dog who is so very hard on the head of her stock - exactly what a three sheep dog should be.

Can I trust her with an every day job - no. However, I can and do trust my kelpies - I will leave them to get even my runny sheep and bring them down to the yards without management - I would never trust that job to the Border - even when she is fully trained. She just does not have the work ethic that the Kelpies have.

However, she is a better three sheep dog than any of my Kelpies - in saying this - I do believe my puppy Avenpart Firefox will give her a run for their money when she starts trailling. You have to see this pup to believe its a Kelpie - she works like a border!

My two favourite red and tans - Grandmother (Avenpart Yoshi) and her grandaughter (Avenpart Firefox).

[Vickie]

Nice picture Denise. We had 2 lovely red & tans when I was growing up. The worked the cattle & were tough dogs, but were the sweetest dogs ever with us kids.

I have to wonder whether the BC observations are purely a result of trial breeding here in Aust. I have never heard this from other parts of the world.

Look forward to hearing how your 2 "up & comings" go and teh differences/similarities you see as they get ready for trialling.

[avenglenn]

I myself have been to quite a few Greg Prince schools and absolutely love them, and I don't think I would ever go away from this way. It is a gentle approach to training, and shows the dog what you want of them, with little force, it is based on Comfort Zones, Avenglenn may be able to explain a bit more a she is better with words.

Hi Wally

I don't know that I am any better with words - however, to me watching Greg Prince three sheep trial is like watching ballet (I have said this on many occassions). He can read a dog and read his stock - he is just amazing and beautiful to watch work a dog - there is no one better in Australia and his record proves this - he is even better than the great Jeff Jolly. Ross Dodge in his younger years would have given him a run for his money - and still does at 80 years of age on some occassions.

Me personally for training, I use a combination of Greg's Training methods and my father in laws methods - and this works for me. Greg has taught me the basics - and my father-in-law has taught me the technical points - like the things never to let a young pup do if it is going to be a three sheep trial dog - without the pup ever knowing any other way of working - its very natural and makes so much common sense once applied - and the method has been used on both my young pups with amazing results.

And most importantly for me - John has spent hour upon hour teaching me and drilling me on how to work an obstacle - for that knowledge I can never repay him.

Re training - I like to use a lunging whip rather than poly pipe - however, I do use both - and a cap which Greg uses. I prefer to work with the dog than dominate the dog - and I like to leave lots of dog in the dog- again this is Gregs way.

Avenglenn

[Sparty]

my first dog was a kelpie X Lab loved that dog did everything with him from when i was 5 till he passed on at 12

but i have been really lucky in my BC's excellent dogs however hubby didnt just fall for a kelpie he is falling for avenpart working kelpies!! he wouldnt have trouble dealing with them.... im just not sure of my ability

[avenglenn]

hubby didnt just fall for a kelpie he is falling for avenpart working kelpies!! he wouldnt have trouble dealing with them.... im just not sure of my ability

Well then Sparty - hubby will just have to have a Georgena x Boanong Buster puppy - Buster is the winner of the 2003 yard Dog Championships and the 2004 Working Kelpie Council National Field Trial Championship.

One of this litter is already booked for a top ISD handler based in the Netherlands - it should be a great litter and so looking forward to it

I just wish she would hurry up and come into season

Kelpies are soft, cuddly dogs - you took the proof on the weekend !

[Sparty]

i think Gena is just holding off for spite LOL she already has her "man" in Glen

[wally2020]

In Australia alot of the Border Collies are bred specifically for three sheep trialing and that is all, if you took them out into a 200 acre hill paddock and asked them to get the all the sheep, they would have no idea. Don't get me wrong there are still a few good Border Collies out there that are capable of this, one of these lines is the Hiscock dogs, he is also one of the great trialers of the past.

There are a few three sheep people out there at the moment that like to take the dog out of the dog, and then only put back what they want, where as Greg Prnce is all about working with your dogs natural ability.

Kelpies here in Victoria, have been bred more specifically for Yard Trials, But there are still quite a few out there, that are good Utility types out there, NSW still seems to be breeding allround dogs. And there are quite a few Kelpies out there that a capable of doing well at three sheep trials and are actually winning a few.

Kelpies seem to do better at the trials where the sheep are a more 'feral' as they tend to handle them better than the Borders, A classic case of this was at Ruffy three sheep trial this year where Granan Mac won the open, and alot of the supposedly top Victorian Trialers will not go to because their dogs cannot handle the sheep and they know they won't score a 90, so they won't come.

Enough of that topic for now.

I have a fairly natural Blue and tan kelpie here, she is very smart. You can ask her to go and grab a specific toy and off she goes and gets it, unless there is sheep around though.

I'm also going to have a litter in October Hopefully, It is out of my Avenpart Dog and the bitch is Philscreek. She is very affectionate and very and just loves people. And the dog is a brother to Denises Matti that she had the photos of.

Wally2020

[Sparty]

I love Matti so affectionate lol Denise would say where is matti??? she would be getting pats and cuddles from one of us

[Kelpie-i]

I just checked out the Avenpart website and saw that there is a litter on the ground at the moment. (sigh!) I am just not in a position yet to get another dog, but probably will be by November.

I may be giving you a call Wally2020

It's interesting what you state about the BC breeding these days and the fact that many of their natural herding ability has been "watered down" so to speak. I know a few people who call them "push button" dogs for this very reason.

I once saw 4 kelpies collect and round up about 200 sheep as the farmer was checking for the fly blown sheep. The kelpies were acting as temporary fences while the farmer (and us!) walked through the flock to check the sheep. Being a "city slicker" this was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen. These dogs just kept a hold on all these sheep for about 1 hour without faulting.

[Sparty]

so wally u got a pic of your Blue and tan?? im just curious to see the colour

[wally2020]

Thats what kelpies are bred to do, At Avenpart they use their dogs to do all the mustering and Yard work there, Their largest paddock is 2400 acres and you could have up to 1500 sheep in the paddock, My Wiz (Avenpart Yackerjak) helps me doing alot of mustering, we do alot of it on horseback, but he has moved mobs of about 7 - 800 sheep on his own. He is not an overly natural paddock dog though, he can do it now.

Your quite welcome to come and have a look and a play with the puppies when they are born. It's good for them to be socialised, so even if you don't want one it will be good for them to see other people.

I agree with what you say about the Borders, being 'watered down' and 'push button'.

Wally2020

[wally2020]

Heres one of Taz as a baby

[wally2020]

Heres Taz Grown up

[Kelpie-i]

Wally2020

I'd love to come down and have a play with the puppies Could I bring our girl with us for a bit of a play on your sheep as well??

Love the pics of Taz!! What colour were the parents to get the blue colouring?

Our previous dog was more fawn in colour but we named him Blue.

[Tassie]

Interesting discussion folks. I have 2 show-bred Border Collies - we play around with obedience, agility, flyball, tracking (one of them) and they have both worked as visiting pets as therapy dogs (not at present - no time, or else they're too dirty.)

With my little bitch, I started her on sheep at 2 - original set-up wasn't great, so she got in some bad habits of splitting and chasing. Then I went to a friend who has a fine-wool operation, on which she uses her American working-bred Border Collies. With a lot of work, and a lot of patience on my trainer's part, Kirra has become a useful little farm dog. She's still a bit wild - usually will take a stop on the drive, but rarely when she's fetching - although she will take flanks in both situations. Her gate manners are getting better, and she's useful in the yards - though she doesn't back - and can work in the shed. Doesn't have a big gather yet - 100 metres is about the limit, and usually needs a couple of redirects. We usually work larger groups of sheep, though the other week she worked four quite nicely. She doesn't work with a lot of eye or style, but gets very sticky on a single. I'm delighted with what she can do, given a green handler, and that she's not working bred.

I've got to say though that there's a big difference between her and the working bred collies on the place - and from what has been said here, there's a difference between the collies and some of the ones you guys have seen. Because of the nature of International and US Border Collie trials, the UK and US dogs tend to be able to take much more responsibility and initiative - although even in the US there are worries about some trial dogs becoming a little mechanical and over-managed.

Barb

P.S. - so you haven't become a Border Collie convert Avenglenn? You really will have to come down and see my trainer's dogs working.

[sidoney]

Kelpies are soft, cuddly dogs

Yep! Well this one is! Although she also has her determined side.

[Guest cloverfdch]

Lovely photos everyone, gorgeous dogs .

Although my heart lies with the BC i am becoming very fond of Kelpies, i am not sure if i could handle one either though. I will hopefully be able to chat to a few BC people at the Adelaide Royal about their dogs and start researching a bit more.

I am having fun and learning alot from Elvis at the moment and am not in too much of a hurry for another dog.

[Kavik]

Here is Zoe practicing some heeling (will move some more from my camera later).

She does everything fast - in obedience and agility! She is not a cuddly dog though.

I am thinking of maybe a red and tan kelpie next (if the one I like happens to be that colour anyway!)

Love all the photos guys

[wally2020]

Love seeing aal the photos that are coming on,.

You are more than welcome to bring your girl with you to have a play on the sheep.

Both of taz's parents were the same colour, that Blue and Tan.

Tassie, By the sounds of it your dog is going really well, especially for starting at two, I hope you enjoy all the work that you do with, alot of people I know say they would never go back to agility once they get into playing with sheep.

Wally2020