lappiemum

having a pregnant bitch about to drop is more the concern I would think at the moment! I hope they have experience whelping and raising puppies, and on pre and post natal care of the bitch. I hope they understand their legal obligations in terms of care and welfare, and will vet check, vaccinate and microchip the puppies. I also hope they have a healthy credit card (or two!) in case things go wrong (and that they will infact act if needed). And I hope they have loving, caring and knowledgeable homes lined up for each and every one of those puppies, with owners who will desex their pups at the appropriate age so as to ensure they don't end up being shifted from one home to another just before they are about to whelp, like their mother was.

There is also the other side to this coin. Pet people may agree to a breed back arrangement in order to have the puppy they want, but may not realised the inherent dangers that come with breeding - the bitch may become ill, or even die, and they have lost their beloved family pet as a result. Too many things can go wrong and while expereinced breeders know about this ins and outs of things, pet owners are unlikely to. As to breed back contracts, I have heard of some interesting ones!

have fun tomorrow kepala-ites!! Wish we were there with you, but will be watching my sister cross the finish line at the melbourne marathon instead... (and she isn't even taking a dog!! :D !) Its going to be a lovely, lovely day - 25 degrees and sunny! :D Enjoy!!

Give her time Ker, she is still a baby :D With some of them they get a bit more confident when they get older. And some, esp with the girls, are naturally a little more submissive than others - each of my Lappies has a different personality, but all are typical in their own way!

would love to guys, but I don't think we'll be at this one My non-doggy sister is in town and running a marathon that morning (thats walkies without a dog! LOL - freaky I know!) so we need to be there to cheer her on etc etc. Boy the things we do for family! She also told me that she doesn't want any dog hair in her bed or food - I told her that if she finds dog hair and announces it, then she gets to do the dishes while she is here. Guess she won't be finding dog hair - even if all my Lappies shed at the same time this week! LOL Have fun guys!!!

Sadly, I 've head of another case in which a vet has told the (new) owner that the injuries sustained in that dog (a rescue) could have only been in a situation where the dog was thrown agains at wall. The new owner was devasted, and a lot of work has been needed to rehabilitate that animal. How some people could do this - what must be in their heads? These are people who are not well, who really need help themselves. What does its say about how they grew up? Its all connected - children subjected to cruelty may end up perpetrating it themselves So so sad.

glad to hear avatar has been found and that no harm has been done.

I would be taking him to see an ACES vet specialist - that would probably be your best place to get a diagnosis.

Its a lot more mucking around, but could you import your girl (whenever you decide is best) and then at a later date import frozen semen and do an AI? I know it will take longer, but you avoid the chance of stress and pregancy causing problems while in quarentine - (not sure about early whelping but timing is everything!). It will also give her some time to adjust to her new environment etc before the stress of pregnancy and puppies. (edited for clarification!)

Hey USC- The standard says the following re temperament, but I agree with Armahani in that its quite vague! Keen, courageous, calm and willing to learn. Friendly and Faithful. What is better is the Finnish Judges Guide, known as the Finnish Lappalaiskoiratry- which is the official standards Guide to assist in the interpretation of the Finnish Lapphund breed standard in its home country. As the ANKC standard for the Finnish Lapphund is the same here as it is in Finland, the Guide may also be useful for those breeding and assessing the conformation of the Finnish Lapphund here. In the Guide’s opening statement, it notes that “The breed standard of the Finnish Lapphund has been intentionally kept somewhat open.” It goes on to note that: Minor details have never played an important part in the show rings or breeding programs, let alone when choosing a “friend for life”. Therefore, while dogs are easily identified as Finnish Lapphunds, there is still a great deal of variation within the breed – that is the beauty of the Finnish Lapphund. Often, a breed standard only provides a description of the breed’s anatomy. It is the interpretation of that standard, which includes that “certain something” that makes a Lapphund a Lapphund, which remains unclear. As such, the Guide provides useful information on the background and purpose of the breed as well as the underlying reasons for the standards. It is obvious that the general appearance of the Lapphund is the most essential section of the standard, giving an overall picture of the cynological type and desired proportions. In fact, the Guide notes that the general appearance should be the deciding factor when a judge places a dog at a show, as (with all breeds) even an excellent example of the breed may have minor faults when it comes to details, but it is the general appearance that should immediately revel a dog’s breed and gender, as well as indicate type at first glance. However, the general appearance is also difficult feature to judge, particularly for what is still a relatively rare breed in Australia. An abundant coat and upright carriage together with an acceptable construction can easily mislead a judge into placing a dog well, even though the dog may be missing that ‘special something’ - a Lapphund should not resemble an Eurasier, a coloured Samoyed, or an ‘average spitz’ in general. It is only the breed-specific appearance and expression, the correct proportions, coat and movement that makes a Lapphund. The Guide notes that temperament is most essential section in the standard. A dog with a faulty construction is still a good companion, if it is good–natured. However, in the show ring evaluation of the temperament is, of necessity, rather superficial, as the time allocated to each dog is limited. So, what is an ideal temperament like? The Guide describes it as the following: A Finnish Lapphund with an ideal temperament is well suited for its purpose, and in harmony with the people and animals around it; its owner in particular. The Finnish Lapphund should be calm and friendly, as well as submissive towards people. It may be a little bit distant, but never timid, although bitches may seem a little shy. Excessive sharpness and snarling are by no means acceptable features in Lapphunds, not even in males. The Finnish Lapphund should under no circumstances show any signs of aggressiveness towards people. Finally, it is important to remember that the need to co–operate and interact with people is characteristic of herding dogs; in Lapphunds this is best seen in the handling in the ring and the relationship between dog and handler. Hope this helps those looking at this wonderful breed!

Lappies do vary within the 'typical' temperament as described in the standard - they are not as continously full on as some other working breeds which i have had, but there are definately some individuals which are more active than others (and some would like to be permanent couch potatos!LOL). If you discuss with your breeder what you are looking for, they will do their best to match your preferences to the right personality. Colour is always attractive, but IMO temperament is by far the most important thing to consider if you are looking for a pet Lappie

I know its hard, but be positive. The good news is that many dogs have survived this - as you have seen here on this thread - so don't let yourself get too upset or your OH feel guilty about it. And throw out the poisons! You will never miss them!!!

Welcome to the thread & DOL UpSpitzCreek - if you come and hang out in the spitz thread you will meet lots of Lappie owners (and a few breeders!) in there - we love meeting new Lappie breed fans, and if you want to see pics we do try to make sure that there are plenty that go up! (can't let the Sammi people out-do us!) LOL

True LM, Off-topic, i never knew much about lapphunds but just looked at your website and they are just breathtaking dogs. Thanks All of my dogs go to the dol kepala meet regularly where it is fenced and there are other dol people who are responsible & who monitor their dogs & supervise what goes on. We are able to separate dogs if the play should get out of hand but in all the time I have been going we have never had a problem. However unfenced public offleash dog parks are very risky IMO & we therefor avoid them - sad but that's the reality of it.

All of this just reinforces my veiw that off lead dog parks are to be avoided, regardless of how friendly your dog is, or how well controlled it is.

LOL what eager beavers! Not sure yet - one of my sisters (I have a few) is in town so am not sure if she is up for a doggy kepala session. Will let you know closer to it

thats awful, and I hope you can find something, but is this a temporary thing or permanent?

I am sitting in a car with 1 lappie who HAS pissed off after a rabbit and didn't come back for quite a while, another who sure as hell would (she has managed to escape out of a crate but I managed to catch her before she got any speed up and a puppy who I can imagin will be like the other two!!! I would also like to point out the current conversion on the spitz thread being about destructive lappies!!!!!!!! All puppies are destructive at times, regardless of breed. Recall is something you need to work on from the start. Sohvi came back when we were out walking along the murray with tobster and the pack when we recalled her, but I know Tasha would have kept chasing rabbits until the cows come home - which is why she was on the long lead. The difference being that Sohvi is the third 'child' so her recall training started as soon as we got her home. I should also point out that Toby, the CKC was also off chasing the rabbit too at times too :D

Doesn't have my breed so I can't say. Obviously she hasn't written a book on Lappies. ;)

Yep, sounds like a second fear period. Have just been through it myself with my younger girl, she's coming out the other side of it now but boy, was it fun (NOT) - esp when you have judges who wear big scary hats and flapping raincoats, or so much aftershave it makes me sneeze!! LOL Happened very quickly, started with a guy minding his own business in a park walking past us. Not a great deal you can do except be positive, try to make sure that you don't have any 'negative' experiences (ie scary stranger stuff) and use positive reinforcement to try to alleviate any fears. Try to keep all socialisation fun and positive - thats something you should do anyway, but in this time its quite important. Good news is that 90% of the time you come out the other side of this period without any problems :D ;)

I'd go a corgie - or a lapphund. And no, the coats don't require a lot of work - they are very much wash and wear when adult. You would need to make sure that they worked on recall starting as a puppy, but everything else would fit the bill. They are a very, very old breed, with very few health issues, and very 'pretty'. ;) eta - swedish valhund could also be another breed they may like.

Although I totally agree this is happening, but I don't conclude it's competely a "showline" issue but more the result of breeding the wrong dogs to maintain the correct working traits. I agree

It depends completely on the breed. Finnish Lapphunds are working dogs, still doing what they were bred for by the Sammi people (they are a very old breed!). However, part of their job was not only to herd reindeer and do utlility (and even a bit of hunting) work, but to be companion animals for the Sammi families - which is why they are especially great with children and why the breed is so popular in its homeland. I know in Finland and Sweden now there is what are considered 'working' lines and 'show' lines (and the politics between them is robust, I'm told!). However, the breed register is still open in Finland, should some-one wish to pursue that (difficult, but not impossible), and personally, while I show my Lappies, we also plan to introduce them to herding - although granted, it won't be the style of herding Lappies was bred for as I don't have reindeer herds roaming in my backyard that I need to move over thousands of miles! So my answer to your question is that with my breed, you can have both - but that is what they were bred to do, and this is not necessarily the same with other working breeds. Oh, I got my breed because of their characteristics and temperament - the fact that they are a working dog with an 'off' switch, which is why we can have three in an inner suburban block in Melbourne, and the neighbours still like us! ;)

my goodness - how long is a piece of string? LOL In short, the answer to most of your questions is that we need to educate the public about getting an education - at least in relation to dogs It is something that breeders, enthusiasts, breed clubs and kennel clubs all need to be actively doing. We also need the support of media, animal welfare organisations and government to promote responsible dog ownership and breeding practices. Australians have one of the highest rates of pet ownership internationally (per capita) but we need to educate people about breeds, their care and welfare. This is not easy, but I'd like to think we are beginning to see a change - how this change goes, however, and whether it stays on track or gets hijacked by other interest groups (such as PETA) is yet to be determined. Good luck on finding you perfect breed - DOL is a good place to start your research

great post. it should be pinned somewhere - maybe in breeds 101