moosmum

Value is always subjective. Applying it objectively is negative/subtractive of the value being measured. Those who promote or subscribe to Critical Theory need to understand this. It was the wrong measure of Humanity when we accepted oppression of some. Its the wrong measure to combat it now. The measure of Humanity, or Domestic Dogs, is ONE. With all parts being equal to that sum. There can't be a 'measure' of equality if it really is 'assumed' You can't measure what is equal with out fracturing its sum. An all inclusive registry would also allow us to present a powerful and unified voice to inform better and more realistic legislation.

The day after her arrival.

Though I would update on Toka after her 8/9 months with us. She has filled lots, much healthier. Her chest is not too narrow anymore. She has a natural attraction and love of children I'm very happy with. She seems to pick up very well on language/communication and is becoming much better at it herself. She likes that she make us laugh. Impulse control is ongoing, but she is very biddable otherwise. A good alert. Seems quite intelligent!. She has just about learned to open the front door Her old owners came to visit and watching them interact showed me where some of her worst habits came from! She is very mouthy- Likely from having fingers hooked behind her front teeth for a tug game. Jumping up was also encouraged, so still being worked on. She has great body awareness and is quite athletic. Her preferred toys are ones she can wrestle- An old motorbike tire, a traffic cone. Her tug toy was destroyed very quickly.

@sandgrubber I'm not as up to date on what Finland is doing atm, though I heard of some interesting developments from a few years back. Hope their new developments are avoiding the 'solutions' of some European countries ie Breed Wardens. IMO they are only further narrowing the selection pool to cater to those individuals personal priorities. There seems universal agreement that education is needed. The problem is most who agree think it should be up to some one else, or some specific body. A new registry based on function/purpose and responsibility would include that duty as part of its membership- because that is what responsibility is. Ensuring the knowledge and understanding to make informed choices. It would right away, with its formation, put a big dent in Petas claim there is no purpose to breeding. AND provoke more thought into personal choices in both ownership and breeding.

Yep. No doubt.

Yes. Let them evolve naturally into breeds, If enough people choose similar types as with the breeds we have. Not create breeds as a short cut to 'legitimacy'. But there should be no shame to admitting a purposeful cross either.

Wow! Yes, mirrors what I've been saying. I doubt her solution is going to change things though. It already happens 'local' to specific canine interest and hasn't the clout to bring the paradigm shift needed to alter the out come of whats looking unstopable in its momentum. An entirely new start based on Purpose/function and Response ability is urgently needed and may already be too late. The public has been well trained to accept and expect those things are beyond a public domain and restriction of ownership/breeding must be the ongoing 'solution'.

I find more overlap than difference in males and females, tho' it depends where on the spectrum they fall. The main differences I find is the girls are the ones who like to say what happens and a little more passionate? about things. Any generalizations tho' are pretty unreliable to depend on! Discharge has rarely been an issue here in either. ( barring females in season)

I will check it out and no doubt comment!

If you have a link to that I would appreciate having a read myself! And maybe some here would understand better for reading it. No, its not just a problem here. The end result will be the same. How that happens will vary depending on the culture, but it will happen if we don't act. The process gains momentum. as we alter our expectations and continue to discredit breeders and owners alike, impose unrealistic conditions and demands on them and equate that to responsibility. Its the opposite. An attempt to create a statehood, to erase the possibilities of mistakes or poor judgement. The idea seems to be mistakes can't be made because responses are inflexible. From a biophysics perspective, Value is always subjective. We are applying objective values. That application is a negative value and has the opposite effect. Opposing. We try to achieve a better 'state' of dog owners or breeders when we should be more worried about their purposes and direction. A state has no direction but self maintenance.

Agree with the above. Over seas is not relevant. I've been there and it is frustrating, either missing out because pups sell so fast, or being out priced. Covid has increased demand for pups of almost all breeds, but I think it was inevitable any way, just sped up incredibly. Maybe thats a good thing, if it makes people look at supply and how we can improve that. A big 1st step would be to force authorities to examine the impact of legislation that treats hobby breeders the same as commercial breeders. This is a mess thats only going to get worse unless we go right back to find the causes, instead of continually imposing band aid solutions. I think most people here already know my views on that.

Have you checked the home page puppy listings? You will have your own specifics for what you expect of the breed. And a Breeder will have theirs. The Dobes that I have gone for have been hard to find, because the traits are not brought to best light in either a show ring or a breeding establishment. Only in a stimulating living environment, for their abilities to take part and serve a purpose. Those dogs are most often not bred. Because the owners don't choose to risk or disrupt that. Or because they are not sold on Mains register or show quality, sold to pet homes where the idea of breeding for that is discouraged. @Scratch makes sense. Find people with like minded priorities.

And some think so little of it! Might help to change that too.

What worked best for me was to crush the tabs individually and mix with butter. Just popped the little butter pat into their mouths. I would hold their jaws just enough to stop the tongue coming out while it melts and they mouth it down. Never a problem and good results.

Long time ago now so I can't remember the active ingredients but have used solid versions on pups with no problems at all.

I think there are several ways this condition can manifest and a lot will depend on the form hers has taken.

So sorry T, 'Fraid all I can offer is a big ((HUG)) and my own tears for you. Still horribly messed up from my own loss over a year ago now. Searching for words takes me back and I just can't do it yet. So, Take care. And Pickles, your life and story has touched us all.

I would check with your local council. Though as Rebanne stated, technically, its all the same. How individual councils handle 'Back yard breeding' or 'accidental' litters will vary.

For some, its not possible and if if they were to force otherwise, it would only add or cause more distress for everyone concerned. I stay. But only I can judge when and if thats a better thing.

So sorry @Sashas Mum Mum, and Mark. A hard adjustment to make, when the world as you knew it so changed . Hugs.

So very sorry for the loss your gorgeous mate. The sweet memories he leaves with you are a treasure.

Working Kelpie Council may also be of assistance here.

@Mikey88 You need to work out your own purpose for wanting to breed dogs. If its just to capitalize on what others want, then its commercial , or to make money and you are looking in the wrong place for market research. Look in the market place. You will also need to research the legislation to ensure you have the means to do it. If its worth doing, its worth doing right or its not worth doing at all. We may disagree on the best ways to do it, but this forum is primarily for people who are more interested in how our actions can benefit dogs, and the people who keep them, not sales. There are a lot of reasons people might want to breed dogs, but I'm pretty sure all here agree the subject is the dogs produced, and the value breeders bring to that subject. Not the best way to make money from it.

Form follows Function. The mantra of breeders. So why the disconnect and inversion? The cognitive dissonance? Qualification applied to a Sum is its reductive measure. No matter how many times its repeated. Its the wrong application of value!! Value is Always Subjective. Placing the value objectively is a physical and mathematical impossibility. The value is not in the form. Function will not follow.

The long term survival of Domestic dogs doesn't extend to Dobermanns or G.S.Ds, Bull dogs or Pekingese either, while they collapse in on themselves with nothing left to build them up from again.