~Anne~

Why would they? It isn't illegal to breed a dog. Just because you don't belong to an association, which is afterall what it is, that doesn't mean you should be penalised. There is a difference in my opinion in offering top quality goods and using a membership as a signal that your goods are good and not using one. Much like a 'quality builder' might advertise that they belong to the Master Builders Association. Sorry if it doesn't make sense... I know what I mean but am having trouble putting it down.

I've seen dogs foam at the mouth when they have eaten something they disliked the taste of. It could have been anything really. If he appears to be suffering no ill effects, I would think he will be fine.

Totally agree.

I often buy toys from second stores and markets for my dogs as they destroy them often and buying them from pet stores is very costly. The biggest warning I could give is to not give stuffed toys that have sewn on hard noses or eyes. These are chewed off very quickly and become lodged in throats and intestines just as easily. I specifically look for really strong materials and stitching also.

I would ask your question here; http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...p;#entry4419271

Wow, you must have done it at a bad time. The last time I converted AUD - USD it was almost equal. ie $65 American would have equated to around $70 Australian. We are still currently sitting at around the 91c to the American dollar. It can take up to 3 months before any improvement is noticed when an allergen is removed (ie food soruce or whatever). The last girl we had on an elim diet took about 2 month beofre we noticed a big improvement. I would say we saw small noticeable changes within about 3 weeks (edited - meant to weeks, not months) Working out allergies takes patience and persistance.

You're weird I know. But having a tanty every now and then makes you feel good. So, if you report yourself, do you get a warning? Yes, if I it warrants it.

They were surrendered, not seized. Perhpas seized intially, but it appears the puppy farmers decided not to fight it.

Seems recommended then by many. I might have to go and wander Dymocks to see if they have it in.

You're weird I know. ;) But having a tanty every now and then makes you feel good.

I've used it and I have had it used against me many times. I have also reported myself.... usually with a "but if they didn't...." which is then kind of pointless.

Yes, and that is how they foster the kittens as well. They are sent out to carers and are brought back in for desexing. Sometimes they are then sent back out with carers, usually different ones, as the original ones will have taken on board new infants.

How sad. I'd be seriously determinign the genes on this one. While it is naturally occuring in a brachy breed, the likelihood of it occurring is obviously dramatically increased if one or both parents suffer from this or if it features strongly in the lines. What was the actual deformity? Was it extensively narrow or weak??? Many can have surgery to correct but I guessthese guys must have been too badly affected. To be diagnosed at such a young age with such severity of the condition is quite alarming to be honest.

I have never found the staff to be lacking in compassion. Sometimes they are helpless with it, but that also happens in Vet nursing and any other industry where you see animals suffer all the time. You simply have to overlook it at times to remain sane.

The bottom line is - don't post anything that you know will arouse responses. Most learn to keep their rubbish in their own backyards....sadly. In rescue it is noticed more as it means that unsafe practices, unethical practices and sheer stupidity is swept under the carpet.

Me too, and I do it on the advice from my Vet. The only danger is that if you then are late several times in a row, your dog has a much higher risk of getting heartworm than a dog on a 4 week cycle.

Who cares what he is. He's a cross bred and knwoing what went into his cross will not make you any the wiser about him in all reality. Just love him as he is. A brindle coloured, cross bred, young male dog.

Just wait till you hear a Pug x described as a mini mastiff x.................................

In the paper today there is a story that Blacktown Councillors have now also voted down using free range eggs for their catering. Shame Blacktown Council, shame. You are one of the RARE Western Sydney Councils who still use caged hen eggs, and all to save a few dollars. Your record for animal welfare is appalling! At the same time, the Mayor has the hide to whinge about not getting more state money to encourage more people to build business in the area. Maybe you start working at ground level and look at what your community wants first.

I've just finsihed reading the rest of the posts. Mantis - if you are including me in your statement about 'Pug owners stating their should be controls on owning large breed dogs', you also have taken my comments completely out of context. I am always amazed at the ability of some to take bits and pieces of posts and put them together to come up with a complete different thing. All I can say is, learn to look at the bigger picture. Most people make several posts putting their thoughts across, why is it that some are determined to only focus on a statement here or a statement there instead of looking at all of the statements made in context? To help those who have done this, I have collated a heap of my statements made in this thread so that you can see many together and perhaps not just focus on one that you choose deliberately or accidently to take out of context; *I do not agree that we should exstinguish any breed, nor do I believe that dogs who have never displayed aggression in any form should be seized, caged, removed from loving homes or euthanased. *There should be restrictions placed on the ownership of some breeds. This not only should apply to large and powerful breeds but working breeds kept in suburbia and others who likewise are owned and handled by people in conditions that the breed is not suitable for. *To be honest, I think the greater majority of people in this thread are on the same side. We just view the debate from different angles. I doubt there are many here that feel the APBT or other bull breeds should be banned and treated with the fear they currently do. The idea that innocent family and much loved pets are dragged from their homes, caged and then killed horrifies me as I am sure it does many, many, many others. DOL and the debates I have been involved in and watched on the sidelines, has taught me that legislation IS NOT the answer. Blanket bans are useless, cruel and stupid. Education and control in my views are the key. *Controls on ownership, socialisation, training and knowledge. By the way, I beleive there is a difference in controls and 'restrictions'. *Controls could mean anything from reinforcing some of the existing legislation such as microchipping and registered animals to control on what breeding means and implies. While the focus of much of my disucssion has been on large or powerful breeds, this is simply because of the subject of this thread and the subsequent discussions.

I'll preface by saying - my use of the word 'certain breeds' has been taken in the wrong way. When I say 'certain breeds' I am not distingusihing between powerful , large, small or hairy. You have automatically taken it that I am referring to only large and powerful breeds. There is nothing wrong with Maremmas lilli. However, my lifestyle and living conditions are not adequate for them, nor do I have any real knowledge of them or their requirements apart from my discussions with Julie. A dog, that is designed to keep watch over herds and largely live in open fields should never be kept within closed walls in a 6m x 6m backyard by an owner who does not know anything about the needs of the breed. The dog in this instance, living with me in a townhouse in western sydney with my lifestyle, would suffer. That suffering leads to problems with behaviour and leads to ill health. My use of the words 'certain' was incorrect in this context and I can see how you have mistaken what I was meaning as I said above. I was also thinking of Pugs. Pugs require a certain type of care, they are not the dog for everyone. If a person understands the care they need, and the environment they need to live in, things go well. When a Pug is not cared for, due to ignorance and a lack of what is needed, the dog suffers. In this case, the suffering can end in death. I mean seriously. Instead of flying off half cocked, why not look at all of my posts and put them into context, instead of focussing on one. I accept your narkiness only for the fact that I can see I should have worded my post a little better . Yes, there are breeds that are so much easier to look after than a Pug. I don't believe just any dick or harry should be entitled to own a Pug or any dog. As I said lilli - controls and education. We have some controls in place, but they are not effective, not enforced and not enough. As it stands, ANYONE can own ANY DOG, and keep it in ANY SITUATION regardless. Not just big dogs - any dog. For the record, I have no predjudice against any breed any more than any other dog lover. I actually have owned Wemieraners, Labs and GSDs as well as Pugs. I like certain breeds, I dislike others. That's normal.

Everyone who chooses to own an animal. Controls could mean anything from reinforcing some of the existing legislation such as microchipping and registered animals to control on what breeding means and implies. I also believe that there should be controls on the ownership of certain breeds. For example, I live in a townhouse and have scant knowledge of, let's say, Maremmas. I should not be able to purchase and own one unless I can meet it's needs and demonstarte an understanding and knowledge of that breed. Controls in their own will not suffice though. My statement was; controls AND education.

Control - how so? Controls on ownership, socialisation, training and knowledge. By the way, I beleive there is a difference in controls and 'restrictions'.

The employees working at the Pound should look at it from a positive point of view, albeit I understand that is hard to do. They must keep uppermost in their mind that no-one is blaming them. They are paid a pittance for a very hard job, and the resources and conditions they are forced to work under are a disgrace. Blacktown Council need to step up to the plate and pour more resources into the pound and assess current practices and policies. Perhaps if the pound workers also added their voices it would have more impact though? Everyone needs to stand up and be counted so that we resolve the issues. No-one should be blaming the actual pound or it's employees, they are merely underpaid public servants doing what they can with the resources they have.

Just had to address this bit, I don't recall anyone saying that mistreatment or lack of socialisation and training won't affect the dog, it's just that it's reaction will not necessarily be agressive, it might react submissively or with anxiety in certain situations but it wont necessarily become agression. This is what genetics and selective breeding is about, it's not just about deciding whether a dog will react to a certain situation it's about determining (and predicting) how the dog will react to a certain situation. A dog bred to herd sheep upon seeing sheep for the first time can find itself acting out herding behaviours, it may not know what it is doing or where it is herding them but it is reacting to the sheep in a way which it has been genetically predisposed to react. That your dog's ancestors never displayed the fear agression that yours does may simply be due to the lack of the appropriate triggers, which is where environment comes in. However if your dog had a different genetic makeup it's possible his reaction to those same triggers may have been entirely different, perhaps instead of agression you might see him showing excessive obesiance to other dogs, perhaps he might run from other dogs, or he might display a combination of behaviours, all of these are reactions the nature of which is determined by the genetic predisposition of the animal. Great post. Thanks. I think you're missing the point of what people are saying a little. No one would argue that behaviour problems are not created by poor training/socialisation etc etc. Of course they can be. What they are saying, is that the path the dog takes in relation to the 'mistake' the Owner makes, is mostly decided by genetics. So Dog A that is poorly socialised might still end up absolutely fine and bomb proof. Dog B might end up a basket case. It was the same mistake and the same environment, but the response from the dog is primarily genetic. Yes, exactly. To be honest, I think the greater majority of people in this thread are on the same side. We just view the debate from different angles. I doubt there are many here that feel the APBT or other bull breeds should be banned and treated with the fear they currently do. The idea that innocent family and much loved pets are dragged from their homes, caged and then killed horrifies me as I am sure it does many, many, many others. DOL and the debates I have been involved in and watched on the sidelines, has taught me that legislation IS NOT the answer. Blanket bans are useless, cruel and stupid. Education and control in my views are the key.