Keira&Phoenix

I don't know if this is the right spot for this but really wanted to share. Mods please move if it is in the wrong place. A friend of mine who is a huge Pitbull lover and advocate who is also deeply involved in breed rescue has put together this fantastic video which includes movie clips and pictures. Most of the dogs you see are Aussie dogs but there are a couple pulled from overseas. You may even recognise a few dogs Facebook has for some reason removed the video, we are unsure why as it is not offensive or rude in anyway, we will continue to share the link and post the video. Please have a watch and feel free to share around Video has been removed for the moment

Pit Bulls are only banned from being bred and sold, not owned and then only in some states, so there are still plenty around. Stupidly the bans only affect supposed pure breds, not the even more dangerous crossbreds and as APBT are not an officially recogised breed in Aust, how can anyone declare a dog purebred? As far as I'm concerned if looks like a Pit Bull/Amstaff and does not have ANKC papers and a matching microchip to prove it is a purebred Amstaff or SBT, it should be deemed to be a Pit Bull. Before the legislation came in almost the only breed seen in my area were Pit Bulls and crosses of them. There are a few little crossbred terrier types, SWFs and the odd pure bred of other breeds, especially SBTs but by far most dogs seen on or offlead around where I live, were Pitbull/Amstaff types or crosses of these breeds. Every group of young louts seem to have several with them wherever they went. Thankfully the numbers seem to be decreasing gradually as the ban takes effect over a generation but it is still not safe to walk dogs around my suburb. The most human aggressive dog I have ever seen was a Pit Bull, the most damage I have seen done to a dogs or horses have also been by Pit Bulls, so I make no apology for having no sympathy towards the breed. In all these cases the breed was confirmed by the owners. We used have a Bull Terrier live next door many years ago but I haven't seen one, other than at shows, in years. There just aren't the numbers of them and they tend to be owned by enthusiasts of the breed who keep them safely contained, not yobbos who are attracted to the true fighting breeds. With lower numbers, more placid temperaments with people and more responsible owners you would not expect them to figure highly in attack statistics. The bolded statement is actually incorrect. Here in Queensland they are banned from being owned hence the huge Tango case and many other cases here in Queensland where people have fought to stop their dog from being PTS or have sued council for their dog being PTS. The legislation has been changed a bit now and it no longer includes crosses of APBT but that won't stop the Councils from accusing your dog of being an APBT no matter how stupid that sounds as they are not a recognised breed in Australia. In NSW they are a restricted breed and I believe they fall under similar legislation to dangerous dogs ie: have to have a secure run, signs on all entries, walk muzzled etc. I am unsure of the exact laws in WA, Victoria and Tasmania. Only the Territories (ACT and NT) have no laws against them. Funny how we rarely hear of attacks in NT or ACT by "pitbulls". Our laws are ridiculous, they don't recognize APBT in Aus and yet they are restricted or banned. ETA - Sounds like in Victoria if you haven't registered your "Pitbull" and crosses their of by the time the amnesty ends the dogs will then be banned and anyone with an unregistered "pitbull" will also have their dog seized and destroyed. I would say as Amnesty ends it also means no more "pitbulls" will be accepted for registration after that date. Hence another full ban on the breed not just restrictions.

Yes and one wonders if all John and Co's hard work is going to go down the drain after this incident. Legislation in QLD has gotten a tad better and they have eased up on their witch hunt but what is to say this won't renew their witch hunt now. I hope not.

SBT Amstaff Cane Corso Bull Terrier the list is ongoing and when they finish wiping those breeds out the idiot owners will go for another "tough" dog. It is a never ending cycle of infection that will not stop unless we start treating the cause - bad owners. Add Bull Mastiff's and Mastiff's to that group too. Those were the breeds that went through my head just after I hit post on my last reply. Basically if they succeed in destroying one breed of dog it won't be long before every medium/large breed dog will be on the chopping block and then gone as well. I for one am not going to sit around and let them exterminate a fantastic breed of dog so that they can learn that breed bans don't work.

SBT Amstaff Cane Corso Bull Terrier the list is ongoing and when they finish wiping those breeds out the idiot owners will go for another "tough" dog. It is a never ending cycle of infection that will not stop unless we start treating the cause - bad owners.

Simple. Round up anything with a big head, smooth coat and weighing over 18kg that isn't purebred and kill the lot. Anything red or brindle will be first in line. And don't think it can't happen. Exactly. Disgusting. The day this starts happening is the day I stop leaving the house. Both my dogs will be on the chopping block even though one has nothing remotely "pitbull" in her.

But how do you even implement a ban on all Pitbull Crosses? Who decides which dog is a Pitbull cross and which is a Staffy or Amstaff cross? Or a Cane Corso cross? You can't it is beyond impossible. Ridiculous.

This Is what I am fearing, how many Innocent dogs are going to get caught up In this Mathew B you have yet to answer the question That is what makes me sad as well Danni. How many innocent neighbour hood dogs are going to be reported because the next door neighbour doesn't like their owners. A hotline is a stupid idea and is going to see thousands of innocent dogs put to sleep over petty grudges or misunderstandings.

I think you'll find the Pit folks have been quite reasonably In this debate, however much can be said for the other party Including throwing Insults. Mathew B could you please answer the previous question asked Sure, which question? Must have missed it... The dog is now being reported as a crossbreed. What do you say to that? I believe is the question PF asked you a few pages back. ETA here it is

The moment the public and the systems you voted in 'banned' the Pit Bull as part of BSL that same action also removed any possibility of an organised effort to breed 'good PB' (and as a consequence, good PB mixes.) Banning the breed resulted in the banning of good breeders, who otherwise could have set standards in place. In many ways, this is what you get when you have no professional breeders nurturing a breed and leading the way for new breeders to follow. No professional breeders to be very picky about where their puppies go and to whom no professional breeders to defend their breed and bring in new lineage when needed. (Yes there'd be a handful of professional PB breeders, rightly ducking and keeping beneath the radar, but these smart folk aren't going to put their heads up now, they're keeping their good dogs and good lineage underground where they're safe.) Back above ground: Australia created this sealed cesspool of poorly bred pitbull genes + other breeds bred in add-hoc to fill in the void And now Australia reals in horror when all these mixed goodness-knows-what-combinations go running around biting people. Well really, what did you think would happen, when you ban organised registration systems and breeding standards that only professional breeders can put in place and uphold? Yes the naive and daft still continue to believe in breed bans and that you can sweep up genetic footprints with the assistance of your local ranger ... but really. You wanted a breed banned, well applaud BSL. The registered breeders and the breed are gone. But the dogs and their progeny, their mixed progeny, their owners,and their owners who will breed, they still exist. When you brought in BSL you kicked the PB custodians out, so now all you're left with is the nuff nuffs with no knowledge; and their bad dogs and bad dog mixes that noone can tell apart from the good dog mixes. Every dependable breed of dog in Australia that is held in high regard, is this way because of the organised breed club and professional breeders nurturing the breed.

Actually I'm a poodle and whippet owning female who's never owned and will never own an APBT and I live in one of the only places in Australia where it is still legal to own one. Matthew, you show me ONE place anywhere in the world where banning breeds has lead to a decrease in dog fatalities. I can tell you now that you won't find one. How is that a "futile" argument? Breed bans don't work. There are no simple solutions to the questions of what makes dangerous dogs. Until we as humans accept our responsiblity for creating such animals, children will continue to die. It's quite simple, even you should be able to understand it. Ban the breed and it ceases to be around to kill or maim people. Yes, the dog was bred to fight other dogs, but in the absence of another dog, it'll attack anything that moves if it's in the frame of mind to do some damage. Your argument is as dumb as that regarding guns. "Guns don't kill people, people do". Take the gun out of the equation and there'd be a massive drop in the homicide rate. Same thing applies to this vicious breed. Take it out and there won't be any pitbulls to attack people. Post edited to correct typo... No Matthew what is quite simple is that if Pitbulls and Pitbull type dogs are wiped out of existence then the idiot owners who own dogs as status symbols and whose dogs are involved in attacks would move onto a different breed lets say Dobermans or Rotties or German Shepherds and guess what the same thing will happen. How many breeds of dog would you wipe off the planet before you got it into your head that its not the breed but the owner? Matthew the bolded part is just the most ridiculous statement I have heard in a long time, its in the same category as locking jaws, just plain stupid. Thank you Poodlefan for being a voice of reason. I applaud and agree with everything you have said in this thread.

I think he is talking about the Scissor Bite....but even then lots of dogs have scissor bite soooooo not really a worthwhile statement. At least he said good things. I still think it is a little early to be saying that the women died due to being mauled because they still don't know that the woman didn't have some sort of seizure etc, that could explain why the female was cowering in a different room. Only time will tell. Glad the man got Tazi back though, I think it will bring him some small comfort in such a difficult time.

Both of those videos made me feel sick and I stopped watching before they finished. What the F^&* is wrong with people. It was only this year that a child was mauled by a family Lab because she was allowed to play to close to the dogs food bowl while it was eating. WTF is wrong with people!

They sound beautiful. PICTURES?? Yes have to agree with PF - As the dogs hit around 2 years of age, if trouble will happen it will probably start then and it might not even be anything major but could escalate over time. I just had to add, you need to make sure the dogs do not over bond with one another. We have 2 German Sheps from the same litter that live together who come to our play groups at my dog training and literally when you remove one from the area the other one howls and paces the inside of the enclosed area and will not play with other dogs or interact with the people. Both of them do this.

I'm talking about learning from this incident and educating people about any identifiable indicators that this could potentially happen. And I'm willing to bet they were there. RSG's identified two - young dog, reaching maturity and male. There's a whole list of others. I'd want to know about the wife's relationship with this dog in detail. Are male young dogs more of a danger than other dogs? Is that because they are at an age where they are trying to assert themselves? And should owners of male dogs at that age be particularly cautious of their dogs? Could a well-loved family pet turn on its owner so viciously that it ends up killing the person without any major trauma or provocation? You can't guarantee there was no major trauma or provocation. There is just to many ifs with dog attacks to make a statement like your above.

Firstly I just want to say how sorry I am to the man who lost his entire family in one foul swoop, his wife, soon to be child and a dog and possible a second (hopefully the female is returned, especially as they have proven she didn't even have 1 bite at the woman) 56 kgs sounds more like a Pit Mix (Ie APBT X American Bulldog) or even an AmBully (those huge whale sized dogs with no neck or legs) which they still lump under the pitbull category in the States. Too many dogs are lumped under the name "Pitbull" there are like 5 - 6 breeds in America and even here that are lumped in as "Pitbull types" and then all the bad media falls on one breed APBT. (To prove this point a colleague at work told me it was ok that I owned a Pit Mix because its the purebreds that are bad). It would be good to know the actually reasons behind the attack but the only witness is a dog so we will never know the full story. RIP Darla her unborn child and Gunner. May you all be free and happy together while you wait for Dad over the Rainbow Bridge. ETA - Wanted to point out that I heard about another story where it was thought a Rottweiler had mauled its owner to death but once the full autopsy was completed it was found that the owner had a heart attack and that the dog attacked the owner after he collapsed from the heart attack. The full coroners report for this incident is not available and it could be possible that the lady suffered from a seizure etc and something similar to above happened. Nothing will be set in stone until they complete a full autopsy on the woman. The media outlets reporting that it was definitely the dog are jumping the gun a bit, but don't they always.

OMG Awesome!! He honestly looks like a skater dude. Amazing. Wonder if I can teach Phi to do that LOL unlikely.

OMG that is halarious.

Watching that, the handler deserves a good boot up his butt for letting the guy's face get so close!!! I always freak when I see small kids go up to dogs to "kiss" them . My kids have been taught from day one not to go near any dog's face- even our own very docile dog. There is such a miniscule margin of error that close. Yep, hope the handler was reprimanded for that. Yeah kids in dogs faces, never a good mix really. I don't even let kids pat my dogs when out on walks I just don't think it is worth the risk, both my dogs are great with kids and have grown up with them but it just takes a bad day, especially with Keira who has dodgy hips, for something to happen. LMAO

Thanks for the positive feedback. Glad that you have gotten something from the story. Yes I agree the note from his Mum is good as well. I just found the story written by his father a much more moving piece, well written and the exact reason people should keep their eyes open for these signs. The dog didn't mean to kill poor Liam unfortunately the dog hit the wrong spot, so even warning snaps/bites can be deadly. Juice - The GSD lunges and bites at the guys face but doesn't seem to do any major damage. How the handler could not see how uncomfortable his dog was is a mystery though. Lots of signs in that dog.

I never said the story had anything about the warning signs in it. I said the story makes what is in the information on page which is in the LINK much more meaningful and poignant and I feel that what his parents are doing is only truly represented with the story. I have put up several warnings. You did not need to read the story if you didn't want to. In fact I have put this up on a few forums and this is the first in which the users have complained about it.

If you read the information it is about being able to read and see the warning signs. Many people think they have a dog who is "bomb proof" with kids but might actually be missing the warning signs. I also agree though choice of dog when there are kids in a household is also very important. Just to clarify, I also found the story distressing and had a bit of a cry when I read it but I think the story makes the message and what Liam's parents have done much more meaningful.

Liam Perk's Story - Liam was 2 years, 11 days old (Pulled from the Foundation Website, link at the bottom) Warning: Slightly graphic and very heart wrenching (tissues needed)PLEASE DO NOT READ THE STORY IN THE QUOTES IF YOUR ARE EASILY DISTRESSED. STORY HAS BEEN DELETED - As multiple users have complained that it is distressing even after I posted warnings. The reason I have posted this is because of a few threads I have seen on this and other forums, but also because it is just really fantastic information that they have gotten together and made available. If this website saves a life then it is worth it. This is such a sad story but rings too true. This lovely couple lost their baby boy because they missed the small warning signs and a dog lost his life even though he was just following his instincts. The website for Liam's Foundation provides some fantastic information on doggie body language and what to look out for, especially around children. Joey and Carrie need to be applauded for their hard work following Liam's death. Hopefully they will help to educate and int he process save children and dogs lives. Please pass this on. This information in invaluable and the more people who read it the more people who know. Please pay special attention to the tab "Lets Talk Dog". http://www.liamjperkfoundation.org/index.html RIP Liam and RIP Lloyd may you both have found peace beyond this life and keep each other company until your Mummy and Daddy join you.

I hadn't read the story but what an inspiration and how sad for Gary and Banjo that Banjo has passed on RIP Banjo May you run free peacefully while you wait for Gary to join you.

Agree with Poodlefan about professional help and only giving bones when the dog is crated. You shouldn't take anything out of your dogs mouth, that is just encouraging the aggression because your dog feels that it needs to protect the bone from you, and even scarier is that some dogs will start swallowing things if they think you are about to take it off them, trust me that is not a situation you want to be in, very expensive vet visit.