blacklabrador

So Pointeeblab - maybe you'd like to share with us your checklist of what constitues a worthy "newbie". It is not all one sided. What are the commitments that a newbie needs to make before an experienced breeder/exhibitor takes them on? Maybe start with honesty, trustworthiness, confidentiality? A newbie ideally has an open mind, is trustworthy, is committed to the breed and becomes more committed to the breed and to the sport after worthy mentorship. Someone who listens, makes their own decisions, makes mistakes and with appropriate understanding and support gets up and keeps going on their quest. Humility is very important but so is self respect and dignity. How long should a newbie be peeing in the pockets of those who hold themselves in high esteem? Every person brings to the sport their own life experience and their own frame of reference and that should also be respected. Of course it isn't all one sided. For those who are in the position of being potential mentors to newbies, who are asking why the sport is diminishing and why people don't stay, they should be asking how and where things go wrong and how they can improve the environment for newbies. Of course exhibiting won't meet the expectations of some people so they will leave regardless but for those who are committed enough to stay - how can we make sure they do? It's like continuous quality improvement - are we doing a good job and if not, how can we improve.

Lablady - I agree, I don't think it will change. But I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

Peshy this is clearly a rare silver lab who should be bred from ASAP. When the coat changes is it the whole hair? Guard hairs and undercoat or both? How long does it stay discoloured for? I clearly have no idea, but more information might help somebody else figure it out.

mls I had a labrador with severe elbow dysplasia who was operated on by Richard. We had both sides done, not to cure the condition but to improve the quality of life for the dog. We tried conservative management to begin with under the direction of Dr Mitchell - hydrotherapy and cartrophen etc but it didn't improve. He was diagnosed at 5 months and operated on at about 11 months by memory. Under arthroscopy the joints were cleaned out and fractured coronoid process was removed on each side. He was crated for a month post op and only allowed out on a lead (this was hard work!). Richard felt that he improved somewhat after surgery but his gait was still odd. The build up of fluid around the joint didn't return. We knew that it was about improving his quality of life and not about curing him. He had lots of hydrotherapy both before and after surgery. The after surgery exercise improved the muscle around his shoulders significantly more than pre surgery (this would have also been related to him becoming more sexually mature too). I rehomed him to a lovely family who were very aware of his limitations. I left him entire so the hormones would help continue to build muscle where he was so wasted. I saw him when he was two and he was beautifully muscled around his shoulders, still with some gait issues but generally a big happy and healthy boy. Now desexed! He will develop arthritis earlier than most dogs and this will need to be managed. He is not allowed to be walked long distances to to play fetch endlessly. He just runs about the backyard as he pleases. ETA I believe you are in very good hands with Richard. He is very highly regarded and is very knowledgable about joint conditions.

There are some wonderful mentors within dog showing for sure! I've known lovely mentors within other breeds that I've had the pleasure of owning and showing (CC and Pom) as well as some of the lovely Pointer people I have come to know. To me, somebody that I want as a mentor is somebody who conducts themselves ethically and professionally at the ring side, who shows impeccable sportsmanship amongst other things. Somebody who shows no arrogance or elitism, who is down to earth. Here are some other mentor attributes that I found in a web article. WHAT A MENTOR IS: – A Teacher & Coach – A Developer of Potential – A Sponsor & Guide – A Counselor – A Cheerleader – An AdmirableRole Model WHAT A MENTOR IS NOT: – A Superior – A “Trainer” – Someone to show you the loopholes – An Intimidator – Someone who chastises – An Unscrupulous Role Model – A Friend – An Antagonist

I haven't seen anybody in this thread "crying foul" about things not going their way. You suggested that not enough people stay for the "long haul" and it's been explained why that is more than likely the case. Newbies ARE making a decision about what they actually want - and most want out of showing within a few months. If you're not not part of the solution then you're probably part of the problem. Help change the culture for newbies, learn how to effectively mentor people and more will probably stay. Sigh - I don't need to change the culture Pointeeblab. Every beginner that has ever asked for help or assistance has received it from me. I have never turned away a newbie - and don't you dare presume to tell me how to mentor somebody new. If you had taken up the offer a few years back then maybe we wouldn't be having this tit for tat. Once again you have succeeded in turning what was an interesting and worthwhile topic into a slanging match. Perhaps your decision to walk away from showing & breeding has been the right one after all. Exactly what I meant when I spoke about the "long haul" - wanting out after just a few months just doesn't cut it. I was speaking generally Blackdog. I haven't walked away from breeding and showing and I think 5 years so far has been a fair go. But I disagree - if you want newbies to stay then there needs to be a concerted effort by those who are involved in the breed for a long time to change the current culture. What is currently happening is CLEARLY not an attractive environment for people to stay. You can point the finger and say that the newbies are not tough enough or you can see how you can change the situation. This is a worthwhile and interesting topic which existed before I commented. This is not about you and me - we can have that conversation amongst ourselves.

I haven't seen anybody in this thread "crying foul" about things not going their way. You suggested that not enough people stay for the "long haul" and it's been explained why that is more than likely the case. Newbies ARE making a decision about what they actually want - and most want out of showing within a few months. If you're not not part of the solution then you're probably part of the problem. Help change the culture for newbies, learn how to effectively mentor people and more will probably stay.

True - but keep in mind the position of being new means that you are in a position of fairly intense disempowerment. Knowledge is power. Who to believe when everybody is telling your something different and nobody seems to get along? Who to trust? How do you know what is good advice? Some people "have what it takes" and other people might find alternate pastimes which seem to involve less weekend stress. Personally I have all the hard work, negotiating politics and potential stress that I need during my work week. To go somewhere on the weekend that involves negotiating a whole different set of politics, difficult personalities and stress just starts to not look very good after a few years. Just my experience but I know I'm not alone.

Mercedes I know that one of my fears is that people buy a Lab pup thinking that they don't have to train it beyond puppy school. This is because they know someone's lab who is beautiful and docile (and probably older than 6!) so therefore think they are buying a ready made, beautifully behaved dog. Many labs are "puppies" for a long time and many youngsters are overexcitable and badly behaved due to lack of training. I have had many labs surrendered at around 12 months of age - all of which have fit the "destructive, overexcitable" label due to inexperienced or ignorant owners. A month of two of training has set them straight and I've been able to rehome a reasonably behaved dog. I think most breeders would prefer that potential owners were well informed when they buy a puppy that Labs, like all dogs, require initial and ongoing training.

There's a problem and there's the reason. BINGO! Perhaps some newbies should write a book on how what elements are required for effective mentoring. I actually think it has little to do with the amount of experience a breeder has and more to do with having the right personality type. There is far too much infighting, backstabbing and poor sportsmanship going on. The true role of a mentor is not to give advice and then whinge when someone doesn't take it. It's about being involved without being attached and to give genuine support with no personal agenda. So I guess if people in the breed do want newbies to hang around there should be some responsibility taken for the environment which is created. Some hard work at genuine, ethical mentoring would go a very long way I suspect. Newbies don't leave because they aren't winning, they leave because they aren't enjoying themselves. MM I have seen you do it tough for a long time and I have great respect for your persistance. You've worked hard for your success.

Should mature dogs only be allowed to be advertised on DOL if they're desexed? I'd say yes. so we should not be able to sell any main register dogs or bitches that are suitable for the show ring ? If the dog or bitch is not of show /breeding quality , then by all means desex before rehoming but there's nothing wrong with selling a mature animal to an approved home, it's no different to selling a puppy, other than the mature animal can be viewed. Some of the advertised dogs are obviously for continued showing, but others are being rehomed for other reasons, some because they haven't turned out or pets who have been returned to breeders who are kind enough to help find them another home. Doesn't the "F" kennels puppy farm have Aust Ch titled dogs? Wonder where they did they came from?

Many negatives. I looked into it a few years, disussed with a couple ofveterinary specialists, a repro specialist and a MACVSc with a specialty in surgery, and I did a lot of research into long term effects, and decided the negatives were many and the positives few. As a breeder of one of the breeds most favoured by pf, it bothers me, but the alternatives are worse, imho. So far the interror-gations have worked, and I make buyers sign an agreement that they will not rehome or sell. I do accept that there are some physical drawbacks to early desexing. However the serious ones are not common. Jed the benefits are that your pup has no chance of ending up in a puppy farm subjected to a life of misery. The benefit is also that your dog cannot be bred from with the boxer from down the road. Your bloodlines go only to the people that are registered breeders/exhibitors. Signing an agreement at the time of purchase unfortunately guarantees nothing. Doing rescue makes you realise how often these verbal/written contracts are breached. A year down the track when there is potential money to be made they can be easily forgotten. I am not saying that everybody should be desexing their pups, I am saying that if you don't then you must accept some possibility that you are contributing to back yard breeding and puppy farming. Whether it's the dog you sold or the progeny of the dog you sold. The purebred and often papered dogs involved don't come out of thin air! Registered breeders also often rehome mature dogs without desexing them. They are all over the breed pages of DOL. There is absolutely no excuse for that.

Wonder if your vet agree with the "chopping" terminology? The desexing is generally done at 8 weeks rather than 6. Whenever you sell an entire pup you have to consider that it may end up in a puppy farm, regardless of how well vetted the puppy buyers are. Great that you're helping out with a litter and mother. Rescuing a dog isn't always convenient but I do believe it is the shared responsibility of all breeders. Dear Pointeeblab - Actually most vets won't go near EAD (early age desexing) of puppies. It is not supported by AVA nor was it found to be justified in a report commissioned by Qld Govt by Dr Linda Marston (Monash Uni). It is a valuable "shelter management tool" where litters of unowned puppies are surrended. But for me to have a baby Lab desexed (and still ready to go to new families at 8 weeks of age) desexing would need to be done at 6 weeks. That allows for sufficient recovery time post op, wound treatment etc. So yes - chopping is a really accurate term - removing the entire reproductive system of a baby bitch is MAJOR Surgery. Oh and just BTW - if that baby puppy dies whilst on the table who's to blame? Will the do-gooder, tree huggers come and wrap an arm around my shoulder and comfort me in my time of loss. No way in the bloody world. And just in closing - my responsibility is to my dogs and my clients - something that I have done very successfully for 30 years. It is NOT my responsibility to rescue dogs at all - but in cases like the Wondai seizure I am more than willing to help. Which is exactly why LRCQ Inc runs a Rescue & Rehome Service. "Here endeth the first reading". Every vet who is being trained at university is now being trained in paediatric desexing. So vets that do it in the future will be in the majority rather than the minority. My pups were desexed by a vet that I suspect you have used in the past. They were well experienced in the practice and the puppies recovery was amazingly fast. My understanding is that pups need to be close to 8 weeks before they are desexed. They were fine to go to new homes within 5 days. The wounds were tiny and the two sutures were taken out a few days after going home. Losing pups/dogs is part of the business. Nobody comes and wraps an arm around your shoulder when you lose a dog during the GA given for hip and elbow desexing or a caesar for a pregnant bitch, yet those are procedures that are done routinely. It could happen to the pup at 8 weeks or it could happen to the pup when it's (hopefully) desexed at 12 months. It goes with the territory. I believe that breeders have a responsibility to the dogs, their clients and the BREED as a whole. I don't buy that one breeder should take on the title of breed rescue and every breeder in the state expects them to cope with it all. There are far more labradors in shelters/requiring homes than one kennel can cope with. I have personally rescued, desexed and rehomed more dogs than I've ever bred. There are a lot of labradors requiring homes that never make it to the specific breed rescue. Everybody needs to do their bit.

I don't know if the RSPCA have a clinic for the public. The AWL at the north end of the Gold Coast do. That might be what you're thinking of. They do all the pound dogs for the shelter as well as having a clinic which is accessible to the public at reduced cost.

Wonder if your vet agree with the "chopping" terminology? The desexing is generally done at 8 weeks rather than 6. Whenever you sell an entire pup you have to consider that it may end up in a puppy farm, regardless of how well vetted the puppy buyers are. Great that you're helping out with a litter and mother. Rescuing a dog isn't always convenient but I do believe it is the shared responsibility of all breeders.

The Labrador Retriever Club of Qld Inc "Rescue & Rehome Service" has been approached by RSPCA Fairfield to assist with the fostering of a number of Labs and litters seized from the Wondai property. A brief RSPCA training and assessement session will be required prior to fostering - this could be coordinated as a group session via the Lab Club. If you reside in SE Queensland and can assist by fostering a litter until 8 weeks of age or an older Lab for an indefinate period please contact so you details can be added to the list of possible foster carers: The President LRCQ Inc. Ms Di Rapson [email protected] I can't do a thing about taking a dog or puppies. I moved to a smaller property a few weeks ago and can no longer do rescue. I took on my last rescue lab and rehomed him a few weeks ago. However, I do now live within 5 minutes of the Fairfield shelter so have volunteered my services there wherever I can help out. For those who have an opinion about the RSPCA, I care not for politics but for the dogs. I will not with hold the help I can give to the dogs because of politics. Blackdog, you have a lovely big area to foster a few labs now don't you. Every breeder should be participating in rescue. If a breeder has ever homed an entire puppy then they may well be partly responsible for some of these dogs. The purebred dogs in puppy farms have to come from somewhere.

and whose fault is that? They don't breed the dogs do they?

and whose fault is that? They don't breed the dogs do they?

It was a vet at Beenleigh. Puppy buyers are normally just quoted a price which includes everything. A lot of vets are doing cheap microchipping at the moment because of the new law. It shouldn't be a problem to find another vet who does it cheaply, just ring around.

If she's drooling and chewing them to thaw them out then it's probably not a problem but you do know that frozen bone can splinter and perforate the gut right?

He has a beautiful kind face. I love the solids. Nice of you to make him a fort of his own :p Actually I think T bone the labrador thinks it's there for him. He slides down the slippery slide.

Could you negotiate a group discount with your vet to go with their vaccinations? My vet is microchipping for $20 at the moment.

There is just something about a black cocker pup isn't there?

after looking on line i have picked it up for $58 delivered, not bad considering the vet was going to charge me $80! Thanks P scout Oh yeah - don't buy stuff like that from the vet Shop prices won't vary by much. If you are using it for whelping then I'd make very sure that the Troy syrup has the same active ingredients as Cal Sandoz. I know in the past I have given patients this medication but when I went to buy it from the chemist nobody stocked it or could order it in. Don't know what has replaced it for humans but the bottle was exactly the same.

Aww she is so beautiful. How could anybody treat a dog so badly. Great photo too.