BDJ

Just thought I would give a quick update if anyone visited this thread looking for hope that destructive, nutso whippets ever settle Yes they do :laugh: I asked the question earlier this year as my brother has/had the most exuberant, destructive, over the top dog you could imagine, and I wanted to know if there was any chance he would calm down I am glad to say that he has matured (well Wilsons version of maturing ) - he can still destroy things, but thankfully not everything. More things are left alone than are shredded. So, if you are at your wits end, dont despair - there is light at the end of the tunnel. Must say he has always been a lovely dog, but now he is almost delightful

I agree that there is nothing more frustrating than someone who wants help, but then refuses to accept ideas without trying them - but that is not the situation here However, I provided some info and preferences, because there are many methods and theories out there, and you need to be comfortable with the approach, manner and method. SHe has spoken to one person and the initial consult is a reasonable amount (either $200 or $300 I cant remember) - not disputing that it is valid or worthwhile, but not money you want to spend with 5 people - not to mention the confusion this would cause for both the owner and the dog.

thanks again guys - appreciated Sorry Megan if you thought I was trying to make this a debate about collars/harness/check chains/prongs - I only mentioned that to give an idea of the owners thoughts and prferences, not about what I thought was appropriate or best As I said, I have not met the dogs, so cant say what I would use - to be honest I would possibly use a choker (yes, I am old school, that is what they were called 20 years ago) to walk them, simply because she has said they drag her everywhere in a harness (they are not SWFs, they are poodle/lab crosses), or something like a head halter, so that she is working on the physics of controlling the end of the body, if they decide to bolt it is easier to offset the head/neck to (attempt to) gain leverage than it is to stop them when they are using their combined body strength. And before anyone has a fit and responds with ' but harnesses work............................' I do know that harnesses work, but not what I would recommend for a 5'4" woman with dogs that weigh over 20kg each who have had years of experience pushing the boundaries and barging when wearing a harness. Whist she has the best of intentions, she is not an experienced trainer who has the timing perfect and can see a situation developing 10 mins before it does.

wow - really appreciate the quick responses, I will pass them on tomorrow thanks guys

Hi guys, One of the ladies at work is looking for a dog behaviourist and I would appreciate any recommendations (she is NE of Adelaide if that helps) She has 2 poodle crosses - a 1yo and a 3yo (both male - both desexed). From what I understand they are both quite strong willed - especially the youngest who is not afraid to express dissatisfaction when she does something he does not like (as in "he snapped at me this morning, but it was my fault because he raided the bin and was shredding a tissue and I tried to take it off him and I know he does not like that") The stipulation she has put on is that it must be based on positive reinforcement - and from general conversations she is very strongly in the 'no check chains, they are cruel' camp (personally I am 90-95% positive (praise, set up for success etc), but there are consequences (not hitting, but ignoring, setting boundaries etc) for unacceptable behaviour - she is in the 100% positive camp) She is looking for someone to help her make them better citizens - they have done some basic obedience (sits etc), but are a bit reactive when out walking, boisterous in the house, recalls only work if there are no distractions etc, etc I haven't met either dog, so dont have any idea what they are like, and can only go with what I have been told. Any suggestions appreciated thanks

Reading this and other posts, I can only say that I am extremely lucky to live in the suburb I do - it is a 'normal' suburb, certainly not posh, but no yobbos either I walk my dogs for hours, and don't have an 'encounter', unless it is to say good morning to someome else walking their dog(s) I go to the local off leash park, and mine play with whoever is there. There are dogs in my street who are out the front off lead (and our street does not have any fences out the front - side or front boundaries). They are all 'good citizens' who are not left unattended, all have excellent recalls, no one is dog aggressive, reactive, resource guarding or human aggressive. All dogs spend most of their times around the back or inside - no one is left out the front There is nothing to say that the proverbial wont hit the fan tomorrow and something terrible wont happen - just that it hasnt so far and I enjoy what is around me Please dont think that I am saying that others are exaggerating, just realising how lucky I am

Firstly - terrible situation for anyone to be in. Completely agree with contacting council, keeping diaries etc Just a suggestion - if the new neighbours have a common ethnic or religious background, is it possible to speak to someone (elder, church leader etc)? Certainly not excusing anyones behaviour, but it is possible that the relationship got off on the wrong foot, people (both sides?) bought preconceived perceptions in to the conversations, etc, etc. I have seen it where people become flustered or emotional, and don't respond well. You mentioned that the lady becomes emotional and cries (understandably) which may not assist communication etc. Just stepping back a bit, I wonder if the situation developed in to an 'us and them' concept where neither side is listening and the emotion is running high. I have seen situations which did not start well, and then quickly became 'silly old woman with scary dogs who is out to get us' VS 'those people who antagonise me'. Especially when the changes have been so great. This lady has lived in an area previously where most people were of a similar age, with similar backgrounds (upbringing, history, etc) and suddenly the whole dynamics have changes. Equally, the neighbours are all new and this lady has gone from being the 'norm' to the outsider. My grandmother lived in the same housing trust house for over 50 years. When they moved in it was a new area and all the houses were rented by (at that time) young families. Move forward 40 years and she could name every neighbour and every child born in the neighbourhood. Move forward another 10 years and there was only her and one other 'original'. All of a sudden she was the exception and the 'odd one out'. Very difficult to cope with. Thankfully in her situation there was no animosity, but definately a change in dynamics. Hopefully there are community 'leaders' who can act as liasons. Being harrassed in your own house is completely unacceptable (and it is her own house, regardless of whether she pays rent or a mortgage - if she pays rent she is only answerable to the 'landlord' - not the neighbours).

Hi guys, Following on from the good news story posted about Angelique, I thought it would be good to have a thread of similiar stories. How long was he/she gone What you did Where you advertised etc How you got them back etc. It will give everyone a bit of a 'good news' read, and may help those who have lost a pet some ideas of long term solutions. To start with mine - this wasn't a dog I lost, but one I helped to find. It was many years ago (pre internet forums etc). I was sitting at my kitchen table and happened to look out the front as a schnauzer went trotting past. Unusual enough breed for me to notice, and definately strange to see no owner attached/following. I went out the front but in the 2 mins it took me to respond he had disappeared (in suburbia - lots of options of streets to turn down etc). Just because it was so unusual, I opened the morning paper and read the lost and found - and there was a lost schnauzer advert. I rang the number to be promptly abused and hung up on. I rang back and was 'politely' told that I was a krank call by a very upset crying lady. It took me a moment to get through to her that a) I was genuine, b) I knew what a schnauzer looked like (not a popular breed in those days) and c) he had literally trotted past 5 mins ago. Long story short she drove around to the area and found him within the hour (he was holed up at a local park). It turns out he had been missing for about 5 weeks and she had receive lots of fake calls etc and had given up hope of finding him. The only reason he was still in the paper is because she had taken out a long term advert and could not work out how to cancel it. He was apparently in good health, albiet quite light on and with pads shredded to pieces. Looks like he lived on garbage can overflow etc. If the advert hadn't been in that mornings paper, and I hadnt looked out the window in the 30 sec it took him to trot past, who knows when/if they would have been reunited

Would I do it - no (no skill, no inclination and not my thing) Do I think its cruel - no. Unless the dog does not like being groomed and 'fussed' over. When i say 'fussed' I mean on a table with someone handling/brushing/doing something Who determined that a bath, trim, brush and nails constitues a 'correct' grooming session? Some dogs like to be groomed, others don't. I have had dogs that love to be groomed - thoroughly enjoyed being on the table and fussed over. Would have happily spent hours on the table. My current dog actively dislikes it - the only time he is not a happy glass-half-full boy is when he sees a brush. He puts up with it but does not enjoy it. As I said, not my thing. I am not a fan of dressing dogs up or over the top grooming - but hey - difference makes the world go round

I know that the cartoon is accurate - just dont know why I am now crying :-( At the risk of sounding like a loon - why don't humans realise the power they have over other living, breathing, FEELING creatures. Not saying that rehoming is bad - sometimes it is unavoidable/the best solution. But bloody hell, it can be sad

not a nice way to wake up Could there be something in his crate? - anything from a sharp edge to a spider etc that 'bit' him (real bite or a 'stab' from something sharp). Often the most extreme reactions come from what they don't understand (just like us :-)). So if he was asleep and received a pain, he would be more likely to jump and be frightened when it may be a much smaller pain than would normally get that reaction

I am not sure why some people are getting so agitated by those who are questioning the cost ? Personally, it is not responsible pet ownership to either drive around from vet to vet dragging in Rover and asking how much. It is also not responsible to leave a dog in pain because you don't have the money. But, these are not things I am reading here. If your relationship with your vet is "I have used the same vet/vet nurse for years, and the dog knows him/her" then I can understand that it would be more comfortable for the dog to spend their last moments knowing everyone that is there. However, if that is not the case, why does it matter to your dog. In my situation, I have a 6yo dog. He goes to the vet for his annual check up/needles, and was desexed there, but that equates to less than 30 mins in his life with the vet (apart from time getting desexed, but that was not one on one time). I dont even know if he sees the same vet. More than likely not, I just ring for an appointment and see whoever. If (hopefully not) there are more visits required in the future, then the relationship may change. Why should I blindly go to that vet if (when) the time comes? Prices quoted above show how much it varies. Think how much prices vary for needles, grooming, desexing etc. Personally I care more about the attitude (right down to the receptionist), how quiet the practice is (if it can be planned, I would want the last appointment so that there are not other dogs barking etc), will they come to the house (or out to the car) well before I care about price. However, if the 'standard' rate is around $200 (or whatever) then I am not going to pay $600 unless there are other reasons. Look at the human funeral business - some institutions dont give a rats toss bag, others work on guilting as much money as possible. Others genuinely empathise and work with you for the best solution (what ever that is, and what ever the cost is)

thanks for not yelling Mita :) I know why there are questionaires, and see the value in them. My point was that Joe Public does not necessarily understand. So they either decide it is too hard, think that if they say the wrong thing they will be deemed unsuitable, or think it is unnecessary. They then go to a petshop who merrily answers their questions (usually with the answer they want to hear) and then says 'have a puppy, is that cash or Visa?' Education is the way to go. Just need a way to make people understand that they need education :D

ok - I am possibly going to get shot for this - so can I ask that people read (and believe) my disclaimer before yelling :) Disclaimer - I have NEVER purchased a dog at a pet shop, I have NEVER bred a litter, and believe that pet shops should immediately be banned from selling any dogs or cats, and the people in the show last night should immediately and permanently lose all rights to own any animal in future. And I understand the reasons for the below points However, I believe that in some ways the purebred breeders do themselves no favours when it comes to encouraging people to buy from a reputable source. Remember, many "Joe Blow' people who want a puppy don't have the exposure that people on this forum do. When a decision is made to look at getting a puppy, they have 2 scenarios : Reputable source - not always easy to find the governing body. Try googling 'poodle for sale' and see what comes up (and most people think SACA relates to cricket, not dogs) - who is 'reputable'? - hard enough when you know what to look for - check out many breeders websites. The first thing you are faced with is a 20 question interview that makes it sound harder to get a puppy than adopt a child from Africa - unless it is a popular breed, you may have to wait 6 months to get a pup. Even longer if you want a specific colour or gender - many purebreds are quite extreme when looking at show stock. Some people dont realise that a clipped Shitzu looks like their neighbours SWF. They just see a lot of coat Pet Shop/internet - you pick the puppy 'off the shelf'. So if the family makes a decision to buy a pup, then they often have it at home within the week - the person at the shop tells them it comes from a 'nice family'. Why would they not believe it? - after all, those scary places are somewhere else and the pup in the shop looks clean and healthy What is the fix? - nothing simple. Rather than try and ban pet shops selling live animals (wish it happened but dont hold your breathe), why cant we look at making it a legal requirement for all pet shops to need to note the full name and address of the breeder. Then if you go to the shop and it is bred by "H&R Smith in Queensland", and you are in SA, the buyer will at least know that it was not a local pup

We had a collie who was scared stupid of a photo (large blowup) Now this collie was fearless - would take on anyone or anything. Ask him to jump off a cliff - no probs. Ask him to watch fireworks - no problem. But put this photo in his sight and he would literally piddle himself whilst cringing and hiding/running. It was so bad that we had to put it away and never bring it out (first time it was funny till we realised he was genuinely frightened and every attempt of gradual introduction or whatever failed) The funniest part was that it was a photo of the sheltie he lived with and got on famously with. But it was a headshot where the eyes followed you around the room. We think that is what scared the hell out of him

I too just realised it was an old thread, but my two cents worth is..... :) I would not ask these questions via email - a short answer would probably miss important information and/or result in follow up questions, and lengthy answers would take way too much time (the only exception would probably be hip/elbow scores if you want to keep the info - but then again, if they dont have a litter at the time whose scores do you want (especially if they have a couple of different lines). My personal thought - give them a buzz and have a chat. If you are comfortable with that, ask to go and visit at a convenient time. 10 mins will answer most of those questions (you will see their environment, how they interact etc, etc). If you want a pet - say so..... nothing wrong with that and the pup with the best temperament may not be show quality. If you have a preference for a male or a female, say so .......... again nothing wrong with that. Just if you prefer bitches I would make it clear you dont intend to breed. I had a dog and went to look at a bitch. Took my boy (left him in the car) and when the breeder was seeing me off she picked him up and subtly checked if he was desexed. I didnt mind that and it put her mind at rest that I wasnt going to be breeding. Certainly appreciate that questions are usually asked in very good faith. But some things can be hard to explain to 'lay people'. When we bred (think 30 years ago :D ) and people rang for a pup, we explained they were pet or obedience only - not show quality (this was in the days before different registers and we run on the show stock ourselves) and most peoples response was 'what is wrong with it'. After trying to explain about fronts, heads (or whatever) I found it easier to explain that most people wont win beauty contests but that does not mean there is anything 'wrong' with them. Show (and in some cases obedience) results dont mean much when looking for a companion dog - the temperament is what counts and it needs to be a temperament that suits they buyers lifestyle :D

I dont know if the police will become involved (great if they did), but I would definately be stepping up to the plate myself - Get up at 5am - unless you both work shift work and dont get to bed till 1am (and even then you can get up :) ), just set an alarm. - Put something on the gate - cans, crowing rooster, whatever - go and sit in his granny flat and be the one to answer the door If you dont want to make a scene (as in - go away you annoying person), get details of local support agencies (Vinnies, Salvos, council etc) and present it to them - give them a solution. Another way is to be there, and be very, very, very concerned - that you want to help them but use the parable of 'teach a man to fish rather than give him a fish' - ie : offer to take them to the local library and help them check seek.com , offer to go with them to the local centrelink office, offer to go to the police station with them because you are concerned for their welfare if they are being forced to go door to door etc, etc I doubt there is much you can do with your Dad - some people are very trusting and just either dont realise that some people are not genuine, or they dont know how to handle the situation etc You need to be there to give him some support - you cant tell him what to do (unless he isnt capable of handling his affairs), but they need to know they are dealing with more than one elderly man

thanks for the various ideas guys - thats why I think forums are a great way to share knowledge and get different ideas. I agree that there is a time and place for crates, and that all animals should eat in a peaceful/safe environment 99% of the time, but also believe that all dogs should know that there is a zero tolerance for not being able to take anything away from them at any time (both for the safety of the dog if it is dangerous/poisonous and for others if for example a small child walks up to them etc). Re the 'letting him nip you' - sorry, I probably wasnt particularly clear. I certainly dont want to be nipped, but at a young age work on the theory of 'it will profit you not'. They cant hurt you, and they dont learn that there is any profit - the hand does not go away. I work on the theory that if they do something unacceptable, and the hand moves away for whatever reason, they have 'profited'. (a bit like a naughty child that gets negative attention - it is still attention). And great work to the person who reported the idiot who hit his dog - unacceptable in every way.

thanks Gretmate - I agree, a disaster waiting to happen. I havent seen him, so can only go on what she is telling me. I have had young pups before that when they have their first bone their reaction is 'mine' - the most they have done is gone very still (first sign of 'aggression') and the boldest has 'mumbled', and that has been solved with a 'look' from me and a growl back (and most important, no pulling back until the body softened and then heaps of praise). I have also had older dogs (not raised by me) do a lip curl and louder mumble - and in one case it needed a 'shove' (never even needed to even tap). I think it is highly likely that she didnt see/recognise the stillness and when she got the mumble inadvertantly praised the behaviour (by cooing bad dog - he heard the tone, not the words) and then when it escalated to lip curl she would have jumped back - instant win for junior and behaviour reinforced. I agree she needs more help than she is getting, but I also know that any advise would not be taken on board

on a slightly different note, how would you handle the below if you were the owner (please note I am not the owner - just an aquaintance) Puppy bought from pet shop (please remember - I am not the owner and my only input was DONT DO IT :) ) - it is supposedly a poodle/lab cross. And it is aggressive - from when she bought it home at around 10 weeks. When it has food or a toy (and even when it is standing near where the food comes from - ie: the kitchen) it will snap and growl. In her words "it has bitten me twice". Her trainer is going down the path of distract it with other toy and praise it when it walks away My thought would be - give him something he does not want to share, place hand next to muzzle, every time he growls/snaps he gets contact with his muzzle (initially a light shove/tap which increases to a rap and then a smack if it does not stop), the hand must not retreat and simply sits next to the muzzle (contact every time there is unwanted behaviour (lip curl, growl, mumble, snap etc) until the body language relaxes then the human fully retreats. Repeat as necessary. For this to work it has to be a) instant b) hand must not react if it gets a nip and c) the smack should never be over harsh or a belt, it is simply a response (on the muzzle) to an action frm the pup What other trains of thought do people have - this is an owner who genuinely wants to do the right thing (she has told me that she wants to fix it before it becomes a problem) but uses trainers who (from conversations with her about her other dog who did not have this problem) always take the 'softest' method (ie : it is usual to take 2 months to teach a 6mo puppy to sit etc). thoughts?

Sorry, I haven't read it all - got to about page 8 and that was all. However, I found the statement ...... "My new child is smarter, happier and more fulfilled than the average pet because he is given every opportunity to be human. He is also completely calm and not anxious because he has been brought up so well".... from the OP bizarre to say the least. Firstly - it was a rescue, so by definition it needed rescuing! Dont know the circumstances or age when he was rescued, but obviously some part of his upbringing wasn't good. And I wont even go near the concept of wanting to turn animals into humans - think about what humans do, how they interact and everything else Is it possible/probable that the dogs final moments were pain and confusion - Yes. Is that truly upsetting - Yes, but was it a dog - Yes, should it be treated as a child - No, unless you wish to remove everything that makes it a dog. A dog is not a lower life form - nor is a cat, or a horse. But they are different - and thank gad for that :)

I definately dont think it should be a first point of call, but it is an option with some dogs. Many years ago (over 20) we had a sheltie - and Bec would bark literally constantly. Was she bored ?(nope, someone home all day, Aust Champ showdog and CDX obedience - certainly mentally stimulated) were other methods tried ?(yep, not just the owner (who had trained dozens of dogs) but multiple others as well), what set her off ? - anything, and often nothing :) Even when she was being told off she would 'sneak' a bark, it was compulsive In the end took her to our vet and asked him to debark her. Answer was NO. Our response was "then can you please put her down". That made him stop and think and have a discussion. We had exhausted all avenues and there was nothing left. Reluctantly he agreed to do the op, and when we went to pick her up he said he could fully understand the decision. Apparently she just about woke up barking :D (or at least her version of it). From that moment on she 'huffed' all day and was a different dog - happy and outgoing, never in trouble and lived another 15 years huffing away. Have had many (and I mean many :D ) dogs before and since and never had the need to consider it. But with Bec it was a godsend

thanks guys - he is just over 2yo - waiting,....waiting,.....waiting.....

Hi guys, My brother has a whippet and he is great. My brother is phsyically disabled and drives a gopher rather than a car. Wilson happily trots next to it, has a great recall (food trained as an 8wo baby and reinforced with plenty of praise etc) and is a favourite at the dog park etc. I wouldnt call him timid - not happy with strangers patting him etc, but more that happy to be around strangers etc But - he is the most destructive darn animal I have ever known! If it can be dragged through the doggy door (and trust me, many things can :) ) it goes out on the back lawn and is ripped and chewed to pieces. Thankfully he doesnt jump, so small fences save the gardens, but the back lawn looks like it has been attacked by moles ;) . Is this normal ??? I assumed it was(he is the first whippet I have known), but the comments here are that they are quiet. This boy makes a 2your old child on red cordial look asleep . Exercise, diet, mental stimulation etc - all tried, no change