Kavik

I found that some exercises for trialling are very different from what you would want for a pet. Heeling is actually the best example. Competition heeling is not at all practical, as you want total focus the whole time. You would not practice competition heeling on a whole normal walk because you would not get the precision you want, and the dog is not able to relax and sniff, toilet etc, which is often done on a normal walk. Pet training classes often work on teaching the dog to be relaxed and calm, while in competition you want focus and energy and quick responses. While we are not trialling for novice yet, we are teaching the retrieve and will start a few other more advanced exercises. The stand for exam is our weakest novice exercise at the moment.

This guy wasn't takiing it very deep - he basically was getting classical and operant conditioning confused (he was saying when a dog sits for a food reward, it is classical conditioning.) My understanding is that classical conditioning involves an involuntary response (eg salivation in Pavlov), whereas operant conditioning involves a voluntary response (eg a sit). The dog can choose to sit or not, but it has no voluntary control over whether it salivates or not. Does anticipation count as classical conditioning? Do you mean the feeling of anticipation (emotion) or anticipation as in doing the exercise before commanded (eg anticipting the automatic sit)? If you mean anticipating command, I would say this is still operant conditioning, but if you mean emotional response, I am not sure. Is it a response due to knowing that training and reward is coming? Can the dog control it? On topic - my dog responds to when I pick up the leads - Zoe starts barking if she knows we are about to go for a walk.

So true, first year psych was great! It does tell you something though when a trainer spouts terminology and gets it wrong . . . using Pavlov as an example and saying normal training methods use classical conditioning . I had to bite my tongue as I didn't want to totally humiliate the guy. Sorry Delta people but the instructor in my example was Delta trained - and lost a lot of my respect after that.

Diesel is allergic to one of the plants in the yard ( a relative of wandering jew plant). He has an itchy and red tummy. I wash him with pyohex and he was on pred for a week. Now need to get rid of the plants (proving very difficult as it has spread everywhere and it is a rental property!) Any ideas on how to get rid of the little stinkers?

Zoe is fine while on the course - very motivated to do agility, and would rather work than be aggressive. She does not leave the course to get other dogs. The problem is managing her while waiting for our run. Other people with friendly dogs sometimes do not have the same control over their dog, and we have had many come into our face and we have gotten into trouble when it was not our fault. When more than one person was running on different equipment, we have had dogs run off their equipment and cause the confrontation with Zoe, and I got into trouble. I have considered going to a quieter club (The Agility Dog Club of NSW has waaay to many dogs for me to consider going there again). I also found the instructors had no idea of how to manage our problem, I got some ridiculous suggestions such as let go of the lead! On the whole I am thinking it is just way too stressful, and think I will give it a miss until I get a dog that is dog friendly and suitable for agility. Diesel, while friendly, is not an ideal agility dog, I will probably get another kelpie or a Malinois. My other option is to go to a quieter club and muzzle her (at least that will prevent her from hurting anyone and people will keep their dogs away!) It is a pity because she is really good and enjoys it.

I don't use my dogs names when doing a formal recall, because they will come on their name :D I do find that when I give a command with both dogs around they both do it! Normally this isn't a problem, but I am working on getting one of them to do a drop stay while I heel the other around, just to see if I can.

So far very informative thread :D Someone at work got her dog as an adult, and it was taught in French. She had been told she could only trial it if commands were in English, and never trialled the dog, so now I can tell her otherwise!

I think it would be easier to memorize the routine! Then you know what you are doing beforehand, and can practice the sequencing, instead of not knowing what comes next. But then again when I played the piano I also found it easier to memorize the piece . . .

myszka The comment about the directed jumps makes sense to me LOL! There is a directed jump and directed retrieve exercise (not sure what class though). I think with the directed jumping you use hand signals? Hand signals would be easier than teaching left and right voice commands! (started teaching Zoe that the other day). Retrieving is the bane of my obedience too, it took me 4 years to teach Zoe! Diesel likes to put things in his mouth and carry them around more, so should be easier, but he drops it really quickly still. Note to self: Bring dumbell to class next week and ask for help!

Oooh I wish I was there for the retrieve! Having problems with it with Diesel.

Hmmmm . . . got me there! Maybe they heard me wrong? What do they mean by 'could be prescribed'? Does that mean are restricted? What's the difference between restricted and dangerous? It looks like they have the same conditions and penalties for breaches?

Just checked and protection trained dogs do not have to be declared dangerous or restricted in NSW.

As for Schutzhund being noisy. . . been to agility lately?

In protection, you teach the dog to bark before he gets the sleeve, so that you may not have to get the dog to bit in real life to stop the threat. If you can stop the problem by intimidating the person by barking, it is better than having to use the force of biting. (also why 'scary' breeds are used. People wouldn't be as scared of a poodle!). Don't know as much about the purpose in schutzhund. Maybe similar? Shows you have found the guy and he is stationary, and where he is? (simulates a search for a bad guy, so you can find them by the barking), and warns guy if he moves he will be bitten?

Nice Dobe in the videos! - getting from your last link Gee I wish Diesel would retrieve like that! We have some work to do in that area!

I still can't work it out

That would be great

I can't see the topic - it is asking for a login A link to United Schutzhund Clubs of America http://germanshepherddog.com/schutzhund/index.htm An (Australian ) link to differences between Schutzhund and protection. http://www.dogs4sale.com.au/Schutzhund.htm...hund_difference I don't agree with all of it. Having trained with people who train security/personal protection dogs, their dogs are fine around people, children and other dogs. Some of the dogs have several handlers, and I have handled these dogs as well. Except where it is the owners preference, most will listen to whoever has the lead. The decoys are also the obedience instructors, so the dogs learn that they are not to focus on the decoy when he is not a threat. They are not stupid though, they know who to focus on, I am rarely the object of their stares .

Schutzhund people in AUSTRALIA may say it has nothing to do with protection I think more because of the politics surrounding it, and having problems being allowed to do it. The protection phase isn't even called protection here. Schutzhund actually means 'protection dog'. It was developed as a breed test for German Shepherds. There is a lot of debate surrounding whether a Schutzhund dog would be a good protection dog. Many owners of Schutzhund dogs would argue that their dog would protect them in the streets . IMO the answer is 'depends on the dog and the training'. Some would, some wouldn't. Some would see it only as a game, and only bite the sleeve (equipment focus is frowned upon obviously in protection), others would take it past the game. Schutzhund and protection are started the same way, and both are taught to bite a sleeve on a person's arm, at first in prey drive. Schutzhund is done for points and titles, so there are strict rules as to what the decoy does. Protection is done for real life, so what the decoy does (eventually, when dog is ready) is limited only by the imagination of the decoy and the equipment at hand (eg cars, agility equipment, windows).

I'm still waiting for my people to get back to me too. They can be hard to contact at times. Maybe K9Force should know?

Ok, some ideas . . . Vet check a good idea She said she is punishing the dog for weeing - does she catch the dog in the act or do it later? Obviously it is only useful if done straight away, otherwise you only confuse the dog. One thing that can help - take water away early in the night (if vet check turns out OK) unless a hot night. But if has come up suddenly there is likely a problem somewhere . . .

I *think* in VIC they are considered restricted? Not sure about NSW (though you'd think I would know ) Will call someone who knows and get back to you. I'm curious though why you ask? Are you rescuing a dog with Schutzhund experience?

I've never been to a club that allowed it (they did allow for a dog with neck or breathing problems). I guess they thought other things gave more control. I've walked dogs on harnesses before, wouldnt train with one.

Yes, there are no-pulling harnesses, but I don't think many training clubs will let you use them (unless on a very small, toy breed or one with neck problems). They still don't give you the precision control that a collar or halter would, as you can only control shoulders, not neck or head.

I have found the 'bully' breeds difficult with check chains too. They are so darned strong for their size! That, combined with their shape and high pain tolerance, makes them very different to train than the herding breeds I am used to!