Erny

Yes they do only advertise "positive". This is where networking (eg. DOL) is excellent as it helps you to stay in touch with other things occurring.

Not so sure glucosamine is really necessary in very young healthy animals, but it is a nourishment for joints so not necessarily something that you wait until damage is done.

It is my understanding that EP Holistic already has glucosamine in it so you shouldn't need to add more. I'm not a nutritionalist expert, but unless the puppy had a poor start or not as well as it could be, I wouldn't be adding vitamins when you're already feeding a good quality commercial puppy food (as you are). My boy had a good dose of dandruff when I first got him. Just fed him well (on EP Holistice, btw) and it cleared up by itself in a couple of weeks. Hasn't had it since.

.... I didn't know it was 'down'. Goes to show how much I rely on my training colleagues and DOL .

I realise, RS. I wasn't referring to your comment although I did mention "stuffed toy" when I should have mentioned "gold fish" if I was to be quoting directly. From what I can gather, the guy didn't necessarily think a dog comes pre-programmed knowing commands .... but a number here have assumed this is what he thinks. What if he decides he wants to find out more and seeks to join a fantastic on-line dog forum .... only to see that he's been embarrassed by these criticisms? If I were in his shoes I think I'd curl up and die. Did the guy say that he figured dogs come pre-programmed? I'm only continuing my post to respond to others, but IMO his call was not "a doozy". I think it was a good call simply because he did and I don't think he should be regarded as better off as a gold fish owner (knowing that's a saying when holding a dog owner in disdain). Even if he did think dogs came pre-programmed, perhaps this might have deserved a quiet little smile, but not necessarily the basis for a thread the support for which included following comments such as him being better to own a gold fish instead and even then perhaps not.

I didn't say you said that LP04. Pinnacle dts did and wasn't corrected for it if that wasn't the spirit of the thread as you intended it. And the guy's call was referred to as "a doozy", not merely "amusing". So I took it as read. I guess that depends on what they might have been told previously. Even if he did "assume", he made the right move by making a call rather than running with his supposed assumption. It wasn't just your OP, LP04 .... it was the 'spirit' of the thread and the way it was running that seemed to put this person down. I only expressed my opinion that there might be some things that people here hadn't considered and that to think poorly of people who ask questions perhaps in a way that we would not express don't deserve to be so critiqued.

Maybe the guy thought that the dog being an older one (I'm presuming) would have been trained. Naive thinking, yes. But I'm sure we're all guilty of being naive at some stage in our lives. Or maybe where he got the dog from, it was indicated that the dog seemed to understand some basic obedience skills. It might be that this guy just doesn't know how to 'push the right buttons' but doesn't realise it is him and not necessarily the dog. I think to him for making the call. He obviously wants to know and wants some help. I don't think him doing this renders him as someone who would be better off "owning a stuffed toy". Heck ..... I know of people with problematic dogs but who have free access to all the help in the world at their fingertips but don't want to know about it. They are the ones who deserve stuffed toys rather than dogs. By the sounds of it to me, this guy should have been encouraged for taking the second step in the right direction. The first step being his adopting a dog in need of rescue (again I'm presuming due to the word "adopted"). This guy deserves a chance, IMO and our respect for trying to make one happen.

.... sorry, but I don't think that's a "doozy" nor necessarily indicative the person shouldn't own a dog. Many people don't realise that obedience skills are not necessarily behavioural problems. I often call out to classes that I am there to assist them with any behavioural issues they might be having with their dogs and quickly explain this is not about their dog not sitting, dropping, etc. (there's another instructor there for that) and proceed to give them examples of what might constitute a behavioural problem. Jumping up at people can be categorised as "behavioural". The guy made the call. He was obviously seeking help in one shape or form. What's wrong with that? Or am I just missing something from the OP?

Oh ... I didn't realise Corvus was trying to train both things at the one time. Definitely agree with Kavik. One thing at a time given they are so closely the same thing - VERY confusing for the dog.

Did he toilet in the pen?

Excellent work, SM. :D. I presume you are eventually aiming to be able to use a normal tug with food elsewhere? ... and then over time maybe eventually the tug will become enough reward in itself.

Try using the food treat as a lure .... as he lifts his foot, move the lure slightly to the same side as the front foot. This shifts his balance and you might find that he places his foot down more quickly, before it reaches the height he's presently lifting it to. Seeing as you've trained him to this, continue to use the clicker to click at just the moment he picks up his foot.

There are "K9 Events" (a google should bring that up). But other than that, I get alerted either through word of mouth from other dog trainers I know, or by emails .... or here on DOL . If you are a member of an obedience club, they too might keep their members informed/alerted of up-coming seminars/workshops. You could email K9 Force and ask to be included on his email list for upcoming seminars/workshops. I am planning to include links to some of the seminars/workshops that are happening/about to happen, on my website as well.

If you did wait (no emergency Vet? Even your normal Vet would often have an emergency contact number - whether it be their own or another), then I hope it was ok to. Taxi or perhaps if you have an emergency Vet they'll send a doggy ambulance (will cost you I think). I thought "bloat" too, as I read the symptoms you described. And bloat is not something you wait about on .... every minute counts. How is your dog now?

Corvus, that would certainly be of benefit to sled dogs and one of the things they would breed for, however I believe it is also possible to teach a dog (maybe not all, but some) to pull, even if they are not sled dog breeds. Absolutely! I did not mean to bring the subject up to suggest that sibes were exclusive to the opposition reflex! Just wondered if they were as a breed particularly prone to it. Admittedly, of the several sibes that I have trained when working at B & T kennels, I didn't recognise a big issue, however I didn't explore for opposition reflex - instead I trained away from it.

Why are you 'sending' to the food (the food being ultimate reward)? Why not send him to some other target (assuming "send" is what you want to do) and when he reaches it, release him and allow him to have the food you've put elsewhere? I wouldn't have the dog focus on the food. IMO, the dog should know that the bowl won't release him to the food .... I will. So there's no point focusing on the bowl, only me. I'd also do my recalls and then release him to the food. Food can be somewhere else in the training field, but not hidden from him.

If I've understood your question correctly ... the thing is with guide dogs that there are many 'dangers' that would not represent as a danger to the dog for it to instinctively avoid. Eg. The dog does not instinctively know that walking in front of moving cars is dangerous. The only way this would be established would be to set the situation up so that a negative association is formed. And who really wants to do that in the situation of dog/car?

My avatar girl (Kal, bless her cotton socks and RIP) was most happy if she didn't have anything to do with other dogs. If they kept a reasonable distance, she was delighted and otherwise uninterested in them. She did have a best mate though, and that was a shaggy dog of poodle & lab mix. Best friend ever and each thought much of each other. One day down at our park we're out for an off-lead walk. Kal was next to me at the time, her friend was about 20 metres away. From a good distance another dog began to make quick decent upon Kal's friend. Kal's friend knew he was in danger and began to run (he was usually the friendly, love to meet all dogs type of dog) and even began to yelp from fear, as the gap in distance closed. Kal, who normally would exhibit the fear stance in situations such as this, had grown a good couple of inches, ears pricked and leaning forward. She launched into a solid run towards the ill intended other dog with every bit of intent to have a go at him, even though none of his attentions were at any time focused on or toward her. So by this experience alone I have to disagree with the theory that "pack" must be no more distant than a half-sibling. Interesting thought though and if you have more info that supports that theory links to it would be appreciated.

Hey K-i ... I think 'survival' might be part of it, but as an unconscious thought. Something they do even though they may not consciously realise why they do it. Reaching back to "ancient instinct" as we were discussing by telephone earlier today. Otherwise, why (if our theory is correct) would "migratory drift" have a bearing or influence on the dogs' behaviour if not somehow relating way back to "survival"? We're talking instinct here, and instinct directly relates to survival, whether that is pre-meditated or not.

Thank you Tony. I live in suburbia and although we are open to the destruction and devastation of fires, generally not so much as those who live rural. There were quite a number of small fires in neighbouring suburbs but from what I can gather they were grass fires. There is a fire that last I heard had jumped the 'lines' and wasn't yet under control as at about 7 or 8pm tonight. Haven't caught up with the update on that one but it is far enough away from me. I feel for those who suffer the real stress of nearby fires, and for all the wildlife .... it must be terrifying and for those caught in it, painful if not fatal. Thanks for thinking of those who are or might be in trouble though Tony. It is a nice thought. ETA: I read a novel a little while ago .... it was about a 'firey' and reference to the "Red Steer" and its legend was made. So funny, as I understood your reference to it.

No there is not. However it has become a term that loosely describes the patronage by some to abhor and avoid overt aversives. The aversives the PP normally prefer are more obtuse, not so obvious to the naked eye. IMO.

That's fair enough Tony. However, I don't understand in this instance where the answer to the sled dog's instinct to run relates to prey drive. What is the team of sled dogs seeking? What is the drive satisfaction at the end of the run? When the sled dogs are not travelling fast, what is the motivation behind their enthusiasm to continue to pull the sled? I 'see' pack drive involved, definitely. And in my discussions with Kelpie-i I mentioned that IMO one drive can be linked or motivate the involvement of other drives (sometimes prey). But I'm not 'seeing' prey drive being the instinctive drive for which these dogs are chosen for their work. When my own boy does zoomies around the backyard, I don't recognise "prey drive" being the motivation of it. I see it as a dog merely needing to stretch his legs and enjoy the 'lark' of dancing with the wind . So could 'play' drive be a component of the sled dog's motivation? I'm open to further discussion on it though, so would enjoy some explanation that might make me realise I am off the mark. Edited : Because I had another thought. :D

As per our telephone conversation that we've both just shared, IMO scenting today is an enhanced (by selective breeding) instinct that haunts back to survival. Whether it be a prey drive or not and whether "survival" is a conscious thought by the dog at the time is another matter. A wild wolf and also our domesticated dog might use scent to guide him back to the pack, so 'pack' drive could prove to be an element of scenting behaviour as well.

Yes - it came across as a bit of a king-hit, but I don't think he fully meant to sound so sharp. But if he'd come in and clarify that, we'd know more for certain :rolleyes:.

... Edited because K-i edited :rolleyes: