Erny

As everyone here (and on other threads) has advised, a behaviourist more suited to your dog's temperament and issues would stand you in good stead and, also like others and also previously suggested, one who is professional and reputable and known for his experience in relation to aggression issues. Also as others have suggested, I would have no hesitation in recommending K9 Force. Andoria ...... given the suggestions that have been made to assist you, may I ask what it is that you now plan to do for your dog?

Myszka - ....................... couldn't help myself

All of what Myszka said, plus A LOT of inconsistancy in handling.

I noticed the trainer was from around the Auburn area, so heres the local police stations phone number 9646-8699...she needs to speak to someone from the e-crime division. I have also emailed this information off to the trainer and have notified Constable Fury from Aurburn police to expect a call some time today. i hope i havent gone too far? Jeff. Well done. I feel so safe knowing that you are there to look after us people's interests . I'm sure, if I was in the "trainer's" shoes, I would be greatful.

Use of the lead should IMO be handled judiciously. Unfortunately, many people become reliant on the lead (them erstwhile thinking it's the DOG that needs it!). Use of body; body technique; well timed praise and releases; appropriate reward (doesn't have to be food or food lure - people and dogs can become just as dependant on these as they are on the lead they hold **). Sometimes I think that even if the dog would behave the same without the lead, the owners/handlers would be lost and devoid of co-ordination if they weren't able to hold and use it. Wherever and whenever I can, I like to train 'pretending' I don't have the lead in my hand. However, from memory I think the OP simply needs her dog to not pull. Not to have to always be in "heel" right at her leg. All the same, it's still about use of body etc, what you do with it and when. ** Not to suggest food lure and/or food reward doesn't have its place.

You should not feel guilty at all. You asked a legitimate question and did right by seeking advice, even if the answers have been to seek face to face tuition.

Feeling guilty that Chepet's thread is being drawn way . Please accept my apologies. Chepet - I tend not to train over the net. Each dog and each handler is an individual and should be assessed as such. Given your physical limitation/difficulty, I can only reiterate my very high recommendation that you seek and obtain instruction from a reputable and qualified trainer. "A picture is worth a 1000 words" as they say, and the trainer would be able to assess you and the dog to determine as to the suitability of the chosen method and/or whether it requires adaptation.

No way. Not after we have been collectively referred to as a "F#@$ing Idiot" for our time and trouble in your earlier thread seeking help.

And he's aggressive towards you and doesn't like to come near you .........

Sorry to the OP for going and I do not direct this at you, but do I smell a troll in our midst?

Arya. Neither had I. It has been unofficially determined that the OP meant to write "Restraint" therapy. I think the OP must have heard it incorrectly as given the number of times she has written it (she has started this thread in "General" as well, and referred to the method as "Destraint" in her original thread - which thread I think has since been deleted, presumably at her request). Either way, I don't believe the term is an accepted official technical term within the dog industry but is more likely peculiar to the trainer in question.

You are talking about a rather crude method of teaching the "heel" Andoria. The OP wanted to know how to teach her dog to walk freely on a loose lead. Two quite separate exercises. Most people don't want their dog to heel all the time when they walk them. They are not the same thing. Do you think, given the issues you are having with your dog, that you are qualified to give advice on this topic. Agree PF and my thoughts exactly. Not to mention your expressed issues with your trainer, Andoria, assuming it is the same one which is the subject of a current thread you've created but haven't returned to.

to everything Poodlefan has said. Whilst I agree that there is some learnt behaviour that needs to be changed, if you receive good tuition and follow it with consistancy, you should see results very quickly.

I guess what those of us who did contribute by way of response to your thread, as requested, is hearsay. Was she able to confirm DOL names? Otherwise, how would she know the emails were sent to her from or by DOL people. I don't condone abuse in any description or manner. But that also includes collective accusations against those who may after all be completely innocent, their only 'crime' being that they endeavoured to answer your query. Yes - you now realise your error in the manner of the information extended in your thread. However I don't accept, this error being recognised in hindsight, that it can be countered by allegations purporting to denegrate those same people from whom you sought and received help. Not without careful consideration and collection of factual proof. If it were me, I would request the moderators "lock" your original topic to prevent further discourse of communications. I would also seek evidentary confirmation as to the source of the alleged "abusive" emails. And if such evidentary confirmation cannot be obtained, perhaps an apology to those you have issued blanket accusations.

As far as I'm aware, whilst I have made it clear that this trainer's method as described by the OP of the thread is not a method I would adopt nor recommend myself, I have endeavoured to refrain from bagging her or running her down. I don't need to. And I certainly agree that sending hate/abusive mail to her is neither dignified nor the "Australian way" and is the way of a small person (character wise, not physical wise). Andoria1 ..... I ask this with all genuine sincerity. Is there proof that the emails she alleges to have received, are genuine? No offence intended to the trainer assuming there is none deserved, but I think a worthwhile question? Nor do I ask you to prove it here. Just asking. ETA: Given that, as a contributer to the OP's original thread, I may have been unjustly tarred with the same brush as those who stand accused of delivering the so called "hate mail" and expect I will be very reticent towards responding to a like thread seeking opinion of a training method. I guess you just don't know where it will lead.

Let me know how you go. Of the people who have visited him, I haven't heard a bad word.

Experience .... loads of it, as far as I'm aware. From memory, he's studied and has a good amount of veterinary knowledge. I found his knowledge ran far deeper than that of merely muscular/skeletal. I don't know that he has any 'papered' qualifications. I went to him through recommendations (certainly not because of convenience). I went to him because through others (even very reputable) over a long period of time, I had not been able to achieve for Kal a well-being that I felt was possible. Kevin was able to succeed in this regard in a comparatively fast amount of time and it didn't take much more than a few visits before the results "stuck" (and Kal's probs had been ongoing for quite a while). ETA: The people (there were more than one or two) who recommended I visit Kevin were all very dog savvy people, both in the 'working' dog field and agility sport field.

I have found Kevin Kelly to be excellent. None of his methods were ever violent (and I had Kal to some great Chiro's before that) and not once did Kal ever let out a yelp or a whimper during his manipulations, and yet the improvement was great. Kevin practices from the Devon Meadows Dog Swimming Pool. Assuming his hours/days of practice haven't changed, he works there from 4pm - 6pm on Wednesday afternoons. You can't make an appointment to see Kevin. He see's dogs on a "first come, first serve" basis. You need to get there and write your name (and how many dogs you have for him to see) on a whiteboard. He usually will only see a maximum of 20 dogs. So, if you get there late and there's been lots of people in before you, you might be turned away for that day. It's a pain, because it means you need to get there early and, if necessary, simply wait your turn. I used to get there at 2.00 pm when the pool opened, so I could get my name down and be first on the list. Then I'd sit and read a book for a couple of hours. Took a chunk out of my work-time but was worth every bit of the effort. Sometimes I could have afforded to have waited until later to come, but often the whiteboard would already be filled to maximum come 2.10 - 2.30pm. Once or twice there was a really (unusually) slow day and I managed to see him even though I didn't get there until 5.00pm. I have seen people who have come from as far away as Bendigo to see him. Without an appointment! That's how much some people think of him. Many breeders and sport-dog people use his services for their dogs too (including agility and racing greyhounds). You can ring the pool to check that Kevin's hours/days of attendance haven't changed, but don't ask them to write your name in for you. :shakehead: It won't earn you any brownie points. The phone number for the Devon Meadows pool is 5998 2982. It is on Stanley Road (dirt road). Melways Map 138 Ref B9. It's marked on the map. I've made this all sound rather difficult, but if you get there when the pool opens it's not so bad. He's so popular I guess he can afford to operate this way. If you want to get there later, you merely take a punt on getting to see him. He doesn't charge very much on each consult either.

I have heard of this being done before. It is similar to cavelleti grid work with horses, which is what I did when teaching my horse to jump. It brings their brain down to their feet. In fact, most of the successful and worthwhile 'jumping' training I did with my horse was with the cavalleti. Don't over-do it though, as it can be pretty tough work.

Edited because I've realised someone else already said what I was going to say.

Warley - we all know your dog needs to exhibit the behaviour you're after so you can reward for it (and thus BUILD on that), but understand making your dog pee at the right time so that you can do so, is the big problem. So my suggestion here isn't going to be easy. But here goes ........ Have a day - one where you have no commitments that can't be deferred. A day to spend for as long as it takes. Preferably a day where you can spend time doing similar the following day (eg. weekend). Take weather into account too. Have your dog outside. You can be inside or out ..... but you need to be in a position where you can AT THE VERY LEAST observe the very moment your dog pees while he is out there. Once he has pee'd, praise him and let him inside. To assist in speeding up the process, put some water out for him that is perhaps "flavoured" with something he really likes. Eg. Chicken stock; A tincture of milk. So that he drinks lots of it. He CANNOT hold forever. You might be able to fit in two or three of these sessions through the course of one whole day. The time you need to dedicate to this regime should become less and less. But make it clear he must pee before he is allowed to come in. Coming in is his reward for doing so. You can perhaps do this when you get home from work etc. too.

Too right. :D When I am consulted to assist in heirarchy issues, people are often surprised that, unless it is to pat/stroke/reward the dog for the appropriate reason at the appropriate time, I barely touch the dog during the whole consultation period. And yet the changes for the better in the dog's behaviour during that consultation alone can be gobsmacking.

No .... but he jumps up at you and you are having difficulties controlling him. Signs of leadership imbalance (ie disrespect for your attempts to govern). Not sure how far away from you he is (but well worth a longish drive for the consult in any case), contact Steve at K9 Force. K9 Force

And when he does go outside (he'll have to at some stage), grab every opportunity to say your "pee" command. Because you're in the teaching phase and don't want to render the word useless, make sure you say it when the stream starts, not before. And of course give him praise/reward. This will double as reward for going outside and reward for going on command. My previous girl Kal would toilet on command. It was so handy. Because she would join me for lectures/talks and I couldn't leave class to toilet her I could take her to an appropriate place and give her the toilet command. There were times when she was actually empty ..... but she'd squat all the same. ETA: Think carefully about what command you want to use ..... you might have to call it out in public at times.