Kelpie-i

O good, an opportunity for a joke I heard recently. Have to add it. What is a Shihtzu? ------------ A zoo without animals. Owners need to buy a breed to dog who suits them, lifestyle, requirements. LL, I found your joke funny I suppose you've heard the one about crossing a Bulldog and a Shihtzu??

I think I may know which franchise this was....they use the method based on Bill Campbell's "primer" but unfortunately they take it waaaay above and beyond Campbell's recommendations and usage.

Cosmolo, I wasn't aware you were talking about SA, so the Brenda method may not be entirely useful in this situation. However there would be no harm in applying it anyway. I am not convinced that reducing exercise will help alleviate SA. Is the dog a resuce dog and how severe is the SA? I suppose you might want to discuss the use of some calming drugs with the owners (BTW, I am not an advocate of these but in some situations they may help take the edge off the anxiety). This would be your call though. Personally I think it would make things worse. Unless for a medical reason, the dog shoudl receive mental stimulation and physical exercise daily mixed with obedience and quiet time as well. It's all in the balance. JMOO.

We're in Keilor, not sure how close that may be to you but we get a lot of clients of Newport and Willi coming to us.

Cosmolo, not a silly concept and I will try to explain how Brenda Aloff explained similar in her recent seminar here. Erny will be able to fill in blanks here since I was in/out of the room organising morning tea and lunches so there is good heap I missed out on. When a dog is either anxious, exercising or just in a state which lends no control or thinking, then the dog is utilising hind brain functions only. When a dog is quiet, doing obedience, relaxing or attentive, then he is utilising his front brain functions. I am not sure of the science behind it here so this is where Erny may step in to explain it from her notes. Using relax exercises and as Brenda terms "Be still cues" to teach the dog to relax when it is in a state of arousal or anxious (or when there is no thinking being applied), helps bring the dog back to front brain use. Once front brain use is engaged, more learning occurs and the dog is able to calm down. The thing is that dogs need to be taught how to switch from hind to front brain and this is done using restraint/relax exercises and "be still cues". Once the dog learns this, the owner can affectly calm the dog down from any anxious situation or over excitability. I don't believe in not exercising the dog to help alleviate anxiety, but I think if you combine exercise with be still cues and some obedience exercises in between, you can teach the dog to switch to front brain more readily and this, in turn, alleviates the anxiety. An anxious dog is almost constantly in hind brain, therefore no learning occurs - only the reinforcing of his own actions. Clear as mud??

01kismet, in most cases, older dogs are the puppy's best trainers. Most of the unruly and rude puppies (who then grow up to be rude and obnoxious adults) are those who don't have an older dog at home to occassionally show them some manners. Sounds like your older dog did have jack of your puppy and merely told him like it is. It is very obvious this was a disicplinary action. If it were a serious attack, there would have been puncture wounds and blood. Great bite inhibition displayed by your older dog!! If possible, do not separate and just allow your older dog to discipline....but always use caution and PLEASE separate immediately if you think it may be escalating. Also, YOU as leader must take responsibility in controlling the pup as well. Don't let it get to the point where your older dog needs to step in each time.

True, totally wasted talent.

Believe it or not, there have been many working line kelpies that have fitted nicely into a surburban home. I think the main aim is that the owners of such dogs provide plenty of mental and physical stimulation to keep its sanity. A kelpie bred to work should have instincts but if they are not introduced to sheep from an early age, they usually have no idea what to do with the sheep once they are introduced later in life. That is not to say that they won't pick it up eventually...most certainly, and some like fish to water, but I don't believe these guys will ever out perform their siblings who have been introduced to sheep from pups. Totally agree.

Is that a good or bad thing? Don't answer that

That's why we went for the $100 tickets instead. Wasn't interested in the online tuition thing.

Pockets, that's a shame. Melton don't run PPS anymore, rather they refer puppies to a local dog school.

Not just qualifications anymore but also proven experience in running puppy classes too.

OMG, his tongue is exactly the same as my boy's after exercise. I always call him Spoonbill Working line, mostly called a "working kelpie".....absolutely gorgeous!!

Only 2 tins , seriously I'd be having words to your internet provider. 4 tins work far better for more unlimited downloads.

Hey Herding-Guy, welcome back to the age of technology. You must have internet back now...or so it seems!

Hi JulesP, I am not sure I am understanding your post. Were you told that because your dog is a heading dog that is the reason she has too much "eye"?? If this is correct then this is not the case. Whilst your dog may have strong heading instincts as most BC's do, "sticky eye" is a problem all on its own. Herding dogs have varying degrees of "eye". This is used to stare and intimidate the stock somewhat. The degrees of "eye" range from loose right through to "sticky" eye (others may term it differently). Border collies tend to have more eye than kelpies when working but there are kelpies who have this too. It is best to train this out of them so that they keep the stock moving. I am not sure about ANKC style herding, but in yard trials, a dog that is sticky eyed and has lots of trouble keeping the stock moving is not seen as favourable. It costs you time and points.

JulesP, our kelpie bitch did the same when we first started with her. She would stick (trance like) and not move, just stand there and stare at the sheep. It cost us valuable points at a yard trial once. I think she was there for what seemed like an eternity until we had to move the sheep ourselves to get her going again. Not too mention the embarassment! We did a whole heap of training afterward which helped. She still "sticks" but gets herself out of it quite quickly these days.

This is what is considered "sticky eye". You need to keep your sheep moving during training if/when they do this as it doesn't do you too many favours.

tkay, yes I understood Midol's questions and Ray is the best person for this as he has researched both LGDs and sledding dog breed's evolution.

Cosmolo at this stage, all I know is that it will be the last week of August. That's all I know unfortunately but I am sure that there will be notices coming out soon.

Midol, Ray Coppinger is visiting Australia (Sydney) in August. I would highly recommend you attend his seminar as this is the person you need to speak with and ask questions to about the evolution and domestication of the dog.

The cows are coming home Midol!!!

A colleage of mine went to this same seminar and mentioned the same thing. Apparently we Aussies are somewhat "stingy" with our treat giving, compared to others. Could it be that we just don't understand their concept? Could it be that we are still recovering from a bad case of Koehlerism???

Yeah we are toying with this idea too. I instructed at a school that had the coloured lead rule but really didn't see too much benefit since many silly people totally ignored the rule.

Tell me about it SD.... :rolleyes: This is probably a "no brainer" thread but I just wanted to find out other people's views and why.