asal

I was just making the point that having papers isn't all it's cracked up to be but for the sake of BSL it'll save your dog, as it is used to pass judgement on a dogs breed, ie if it has papers it's an amstaff but if it doesn't it's a pitbull, go figure..?! yep, n it doesnt help when u see some advertising their male is dual registered in the good ole US of A

why on earth do u assume only faulty pups are born of parents belonging to unethical breeders? ethical breeders do not have a magic radar that zero's in and prevents them purchasing any but the perfect genetic makup? it aint possible. there are thousands of deletrious genes yet to be dna markered. bad luck can happen to EVERYONE. n anyone YEP GIVE UP. YES. have it your way IF A FAULTY PUP IS BORN IT can only mean the breeder be struck from the responsible ethical ranks... would fix the problem faster. simply stike off every breeder who a defective pup came from. that would even eliminate the puppy farmers. remember the shitzu x maltese with luxating patella, heart murmer and think it was 3 hernia's, robert zammit showed on tv once. the world is not black and white bad things do happen to good people. bad things happening to them does not prove they are bad people, sometimes i find myself wondering if the mentality of the dark ages and burning, drowning and elimination of witches is just the same just new names believe it or not bad people ARE in the minority although to read this forum most could be excused for not realising that

I used to think all registered breeders were doing the right thing. Wasn't until I started doing research to buy my first pedigree dog that I discovered how many of them are just BYBers and puppy farmers with prefixes. dont worry the way things are going, there wont be any registered breeders once the pollies and the high grounders have eliminated em all even the high grounders. if i hear responsible, ethical once more I think ill puke dont forget that letter gone out from the dogs nsw board is because some pesponsible, ethical's have decided to rip the thoat out of a member of the board who has worked tirelessly for decades for the breed and breeders. but hey some think their ground is higher so set out to destroy a man who has done more for the members than the killers have probably done. but who cares they carry the responsible ethical banners... just ask em please give it a rest for goodness sake. judy guard thought she was responsible and ethical. where has it got her. ruth downey knew she was responsible and ethical. look where its got her. lost and or losing everything she owns. n the list goes on whos next? n whoever it is the pack will stand back and watch em torn to pieces snug in the assumption it wouldnt happen to em if they didnt deserve it. then when its their turn n discover and ask why is this happening to me.... they will then be the ones watching the faces that show no mercy to them. remeber that when its your turn ruth and judy are still asking the same thing.

well in the case of my mums dog she was desexing her so she had the entire uterus to examine and looked me in the face and said there was no way she could tell if the dog had never been mated??????? the dog was 6 as mum had taken ages to decide to get her done, it was only because she and her playmate began ummm practicing on each other, both girls incidently, mum decided it was embarrassing. so got them done. tried to explain to mum this is a dominance posturing, so dont go thinking its going to stop once desexed. ( although health wise was for the best as pymetra could have been on the horizon for both of em otherwise) lol boy was she put out soon as the stitches were out they were back at it

There is also this article about changes to the Dog Act to make nuisance dog complaints easier for rangers to manage. Link It says that the current provisions make it difficult for rangers because they have to: a) gather evidence from reliable witnesses b) establish proof of the dog being a nuisance to convince a court beyond reasonable doubt So it sounds like the WALGA is pushing for these provisions to be changed. Maybe I'm naive, but they sound fair to me and should protect dogs and their owners from malicious complaints. Just wondering what others think of this? wonder if things have improved in the northern territory? http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2008/07/30/4868_ntnews.html http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/11/1...181_ntnews.html http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/09/2...791_ntnews.html

I had a vet tell me that there is no way to tell if a dog has never been bred from. which i found strange to say the least. considering i remember reading in the news once that a lady had been found murdered and one of the comments made was that she had had children so that ruled out missing women and girls who had not. soo? if thats applicalbe for a human why not a dog? at the time had been accused of breeding from a bitch my mum had as a pet which hadnt been desexed.. so had asked the vet for a certificate stated she had never been bred from, n since the vet was desexing her at the time did think it was a reasonable request. she flatly refused saying there is no way a vet can tell. so how can a doctor say so about a woman??

what i smell is a rat of gaigantic proportions, that talk about "doing" something and what is that "something" a "carbon trading sceme" talk for another form of share trading. where has the share market got us? boom and bust in paper trails. as a friends son who now works in this "industry" he is astounded how much it is manipulated to make money by those with with power to do so, they even make money when they are "crashing" it im told. this joke called "carbon Trading" is exactly the same boom and bust for the BIG END OF TOWN. and who is the loosers...... u n everyone else. it has and will have absolutely no impact on climate change save the money market climate

good grief why hasnt there been a thread on this press release... http://www.sosnews.org/newsfront/?p=574#more-574

pity u felt the need to chuck that in. the laws are there and they are by no means weak. considering all they have to do is "form the opinion" and all you can do is watch helplessly as they decide whether today they will just take some manure samples and charge you 12 months later or decide todays the day to instead, to seize or shoot on the spot. and do so, yet still screech for more power. for what? try that on with the people who have had hundreds of thousans in legal fees billed to them for seized or shot stock their homes seized and sold, be interesting to see the day the shoe is on your foot, if you still feel they do not have sufficent power to destroy yet?

curious isnt it. as i recall according to the records theres been three phases of global warming and ice ages as well before man was even around to "cause" it? so sceptical?? yep :D

frankly if the incidence is 1 in 4 that equates to a B. WHATEVER the gene they are talking. for a one in four incidence of an expression both parents have to be carrying one pair of the defective elle or gene in pra for example A is free of the gene and ALLL PUPPIES ARE clear. one in four means both parents are B carrying one copy of the defect. soo are they saying ALLL CAVALIERS are carriers?

hey i just stumpbled on this googling for something else? http://www.sosnews.org/newsfront/?p=532 so there has been a senate enquiry? anyone know what transpired? n how tragic it this ladys story. how come no city papers took it up? ho is about a few things, i mean the lady in armidale

polies want and like press.. we need to get enough numbers to rallys at the parliment gates. then every pollie who want's his/her piccie taken might, just might actually listen while he/she's being pictured by the press. any photo shoot will do from what ive noticed over the decades, if they think theres a vote in it theyr there. cynical... u bet... but any better ideas?

my suspicion is rallys big enough to attract the tv and papers to headline it.

toy dog, i dont have any ideas anymore. i drafted up a letter (umm amend that to quite a few over the last decade) and sent it to every politician listed. n what did i get back? thanked me for my input, yes. then advised me as my address was not in their electorate sorry but cant help. to please contact the polie in my electorate. soo from that i gather i you expect any results we need to have as many people as possible in as many electorates write . because it sure came back to me that, not in their electorate. in to the bin it goes. as for my own area poli? thanked me kindly for the input..... n silence. good luck folks they genuflect to the greenies. but what do the greenies do to get the desired response, is the question?

ooooo caramel looks just like Cynthia.. n Winston looks like Snowy/Luke. well he had black eyes. gee u bring back memories.... old age took them over 15 years ago, still miss em

sorry steve, apologies. but it just sends me nuts. sooo many still in favour of MORE laws in the quest to control 'puppy farmers' n the silence over asking for something as straightforward as a law surely despeartely needed, giving victums of the very power who will be 'enforcing them' n has already rolled over such as judy to have an avenue of appeal instead of having to endure the juggernaut of all their fees if your lucky and they cant find a chargable offence or the tens of thousands, nay hundred of thousands, of legal fees if they force u to court like they did with Ruth Dalton. just short of 300,000 in just the legal fees for them shooting her cattle.... like they never fed em even a bucket of feed. yet kept a group of men on 'standby' n pay waiting t for the signal to move in in bury them soon as they were shot, they were on standby for nearly a week. as one lady pointed out, the fees for the prosecution of the guy who killed her sister didnt amount to that? what is going on? why does no one, not even the polies twig, something is seriously wrong when ONE and ONE organisation only is exempt from accountablity or appeal? what happened to oscar was apalling,,, n now there is a push for his law.. but still no push nor thread even about making the rspca accountable or appeal avenue. why is human suffering ignored? victums of the rspca are just as helpless as oscar. do dog people really dispise their own this much? that what it seems anyway

i want to know what they are going to do about it , what are they doing exactly? have they done anything at all. i want their answer to this. and why aren't they doing anything. or if they have done something what is it they've done. this is what the members should be asking of them, afterall we pay them to stand up for us and as far as i can see here in this thread they aren't doing it. oscarslaw are calling for a ban on sales on petshops and shut down farms, they keep on saying it i can paste from fb page if you like the oscarslaws fb page. RSPCA are calling for tougher laws and polies are delivering as far as they are concerned. people are saying on their FB pages are you listening guys, we want to shut down farms we don't want any more laws. we want oscarslaw which says banning of sales, shut down farms. they also say starting a real campaign about pet ownership and i got into this further and it said desexing pets. this is what im saying, farms are legal and already conform to all laws so it doesn't affect them. people are asking for these farms to close but instead polies are just putting more laws up, is it what the public want? no. is it what anyone wants no, its what RSPCA want and what by the looks of it they are going to get despite many calling for something completely different. Perhaps a better question is what should we be doing about it. Not pushing for new laws which will expose the fact that most registered breeders are in breach of local laws ? they are calling for tougher laws and any new laws affect any one who breeds not just one tiny group and thats what we have been trying to say. I sat at the roundatable conference and Im promising you they are after anyone who breeds dogs in sub standard conditions. What is sub standard conditions? Conditions which don't comply with local environment laws and mandatory codes. That's you. Oscar law may say only commercial breeders but this is Australia and you cant make laws for them and not us. exactly or EXACTLY I just still cant believe how gullable everyone seems to be. if nothing else what happened to Judy Guard should have at least woken more people up to the fact that the dogs welfare IS NOT ON THE RADAR; eliminating ANKC members is. gee folks,, theyve sent the full armour of the law after her. for what? an 'accidntental' (my foot it was) inclusion in one of the new laws dog showis backed? in their hunt for those tail docking. n that just 'slipped in" about debarking? yet a dog bred in and debarked in nsw can be shown in vic, and its not going to get the owner charged. but a dog born in vic debarked in nsw can get you 42 convictions for 'exhibiting' . n the first one spotted is put down by the discovering vet? n the very prosecutors do what? debark, and you can show a dog bred in vic n debarked by their standards in vic and not be breaking the law, if thats not insane what is? get your heads around the facts. this is a witch hunt and folks.....your the witches.

this 'morphing' does not just apply to the dog world. i well remember my friend coming home from a cat club meeting crying, yes crying. it had been pushed through to remove "pleasant expression" from the persian standard so the grimacing gargoyles with noses so short thats all they could do, grimace, but now thanks to those who prefered their even flatter faced hardly breathe look, could now win. as for the arabian. thousands of years bred for soundness remodeled in a few decades to what? friend paid 7,000 for a ribbon winning colt, he could never ride, he had so much "animation" he would rear and go over backwards without warning. but hey, the judgs want animation, that's more important than sense now apparently, n hey the judges don't ride em, think the fool who coined the phrase "living work of art " needed shooting, that in a breed once noted for its temperament, n excellence as a saddle horse at least i suppose we can thank our lucky stars there's not 400 kg dogs can land on u

had this thoughts as i was doing the breakies this morning. not sure if its free of confusions so hard to work out the best wording but here goes. Shows, showing n where the breeds really came from. n why the other side sees showing as the dark side. Reading all the reasons given and or bandied about for the elimination of “backyarders” (when we all have them) and puppy farmers when in the eyes of the animal welfare’s n libbers if u breed you’re a puppy farmer. The one thing the majority belive shows they are “ethical” is they show or if they are not currently show, breeding “show” quality. What every registered breeder has failed to realise, is the SHOW ring did not create the breeds we know and love. They were created by backyarder’s. Bred for a purpose to the “standard” of the breeders choice. Parson Jack Russel created the what? The German Coolie/Koolie has been a highly regarded working dog in this country for centuaries, no one here has bothered to apply to any ankc to make them a registrable showable breed. It took some yanks on the other side of the world to go to the trouble and have em lobb back here as Australian shepherds? Now just why may this be so? Pretty simple really, same reason the Australian working kelpie has its own registry n not shown Since the advent of dog shows the showring has proven time and time again to refashion the breed year by year with no regard for the very qualities that it became a breed. Only the outer shell is “improved” daily, yearly monthly, as the standard is so easily reinterprated in some cases reinvented. Nobody could honestly say the british bulldog is the same breed it was 200 years ago. Its morphed into a stumpy legged caricature of the the animal it once was. Ditto for breed after breed all “improved “ until their creators would undoubly be unable to recognise them as descended from their kennel. Since when was any breed improved by the inability to be selected for unassisted whelping? Ceaseraians except in the case of a malpresention is now in many breeds more the norm than the exception, that in no streatch of the imagination should be construed as improvement surely. As for the Chihuahua standard. Here was a breed thousands of years old, reproducing in the jungles of south America, no vets there. The second it became a “show” dog the standard had in it “the more dimunative preferred” and the scaling down has been impressive to what benefit to the breed? Only now has that stupid sentence been removed, n not about time. As for the morphing of them from the dog found to the dog today is not sticking to the Aztec standard they wouldn’t recognise their little dog today. So to these “breeders” show is symomous with destruction, pretty much like the “pedigree dogs exposed program”. I have never heard the working dog breeds exposing the elimination of “backyarders” they are smart enough to twigg that means everyone. Unlike the show sceanies. So those who do not think they have jumped into bed with the animal libbers are certainly seen to have done so by many with a different perspective.

u know whats even funnier? all this agnst over debarking. n so many thinking it should be totally banned. guess what folks. judy guard isnt being prosecuted because the dog was debarked solely. have u forgotten? the rspca debark dogs. they are quite ok with you "exhibiting" any dog debarked by them or by their rules. their agnst is that judys was done in another state. :rofl: :rofl: :D THIS IS HER CRIME if she had had the rscpa slit their throats open and rearrange em she would still be showing away. NOT FACING massive fines, no longer allowed to be a member or breed or show pedigree dogs again... pretty big penalty. without remembering if they want add 84 years jail time on top. it that aint overkill for an op they do themselves what is? her crime was she used her vet in nsw, who doesnt cut their throats like the rspca prefers, remember.. they were flying in an expert at judys costs to ascertain if the dreaded through the mouth op had been done instead of their preferred method.

my two girls were poles apart in colour, cynthia was chocolate n cream, where your polecats are sort of blackish n cream. snowy was STUNNING. she was the one of the untwistable neck.. lucky she was so flexible eh pure white with eyes as black as beads. NO albino in snowy. the boy i bought to keep them company was like snowy with the black eyes too like his mum. his name escapes me at the moment. my other boy was Simon and he was like cynthia. chocolate n cream, n he was the prongiest wardancer in the country.. Ha Frosty tried to be a close second, but simon had the art of doing 5 prongs where there was only room for 4 and thus alwasy crashing either into. over or off something.. didnt seem to mind being laughed at fortunately

I simply have to stop this . walk away n lock these things out of my head. nothing was believed 20 years ago or more when the hunt began and collateral damage is irreversable and as inevitable here as it is in war. may as many of you as possible miss stopping a bullet. wonder if i will be around long enough to see if theres any survivors?

and yes i know. we all have backyard i could be called a backyard breeder too. but that is the term that has stuck. what else do you call them thats not long winded but some people go, whats that anyway. true.. so its neatly shortened and your just as likely to be netted n eliminated as Judy Guard. ho well, maybe it should be considered exciting to see who gets meshed and eliminated n who gets missed in the hunt. as so many have said in the past. the elimination of innocents happens in a war, they are called, "collateral damage" maybe those so eliminated can stand proud they contributed to the fall of those actually aimed at eliminating? except only they will know they were not the target. the ones not eliminated will all firmly believe they and they only were fit and proper. the "where theres smoke theres fire" brigade dont believe theres such a thing as "collateral damage", or "friendly fire" could kill or eliminate an innocent

trouble is look at the mess they made of the tail docking law, shoved in its a crime to "exhibit" debarked dogs and Judy Guard is first in the net. n what does that have to do with puppy farms?? they are busy sowing legal minefields with every one of these new laws and even though its amazing how many politicions studied law before politics. im rapidly comming to the conclusion their main point of study was the confusing of jury's/joe public. not law drafting. the amount of additions shoved in, for whatever reasons, n I dont seem to recall anyone enlightening us how making it a crime to show a debarked dog has anything whatso ever with eleminating or preventing cruelty or puppy farming anywhere whatsoever. but its now law and someone/organisation is standing to make a nice pot of mula out of Judy. n the bell wether dog paid with its life because the vet decided it wasnt socalised properly.. considering it was a ex showdog n no one has mentioned it was ever banned from the ring for attacking a judge, i would somehow have to presume it was not savage? since when was not showing affection to a complete stranger, even if said complete stranger is a vet with the power of life and death over you if you dont adore em on sight how is it now acceptable said vet can say its not socalised enough and should be put down? AND DOES SO, dont forget. loves doggies all right. but only Affectionate doggies it seems. this in a breed that even the standard describes as aloof? does this mean every afgan, maremma, cattledog, so many of such breeds will be decimated of all representatives that dont fawn to, and run to ,complete strangers? theres far more implications and precedents rearing their noses just over that one.. whats hiding, yet to see light of day we dont know yet?